Jake Odorizzi to the Cardinals would REALLY bother me :(

[TURBO]

Jon Morosi of FOX Sports reports that the Cardinals have been active in talks with the Rays about acquiring a starting pitcher.

 

The Rays have been shopping several of their starters around, so it's unclear at the moment who the Cardinals are inquiring about. Jake Odorizzi is from the St. Louis area and would make a lot of sense for the Cardinals, and had been talked about in previous trade discussions with the Dodgers. Drew Smyly, Matt Moore and Erasmo Ramirez would also be possibilities as the Cardinals strive to replace the hole in their rotation created by the departure of John Lackey and injury to Lance Lynn.

 

Source: Jon Morosi on TwitterDec 19 - 11:18 AM

[TURBO]

In fact, since he is possibly tradeable in the Rays eyes, what would it take for the Brewers to get him back?

[trwi7]

In fact, since he is possibly tradeable in the Rays eyes, what would it take for the Brewers to get him back?

 

More than would be worth it. We have no reason to go after a mid rotation starter right now with Nelson, Peralta, Davies, Jungmann, Lopez, Pena, Houser, Hader and Garza either in MLB or close to MLB ready.

[JohnBriggs12]

In fact, since he is possibly tradeable in the Rays eyes, what would it take for the Brewers to get him back?

 

More than would be worth it. We have no reason to go after a mid rotation starter right now with Nelson, Peralta, Davies, Jungmann, Lopez, Pena, Houser, Hader and Garza either in MLB or close to MLB ready.

 

Odorizzi's a proven starter who's controllable through 2019. At some point this team is going to have to compete. I'd be fine trading for Odorizzi and dealing Peralta. I'd view that as an upgrade.

[CheezWizHed]

Would we really be talking about this if Jake wasn't a Brewer draft pick? What if Danny Salazar was being traded? Would the Brewers in this stage of the reconstruction go after him? I'm doubting it.

[bill hAll Star]

In fact, since he is possibly tradeable in the Rays eyes, what would it take for the Brewers to get him back?

 

More than would be worth it. We have no reason to go after a mid rotation starter right now with Nelson, Peralta, Davies, Jungmann, Lopez, Pena, Houser, Hader and Garza either in MLB or close to MLB ready.

 

Odorizzi's a proven starter who's controllable through 2019. At some point this team is going to have to compete. I'd be fine trading for Odorizzi and dealing Peralta.

 

So trade for the next "Odorizzi" that will be controllable through 2022. He'll be a "proven starter" probably by 2018 and we'll have 5 years of control after that instead of just probably 1-2 when our competitive window hits with Odorizzi.

[Roderick]

In fact, since he is possibly tradeable in the Rays eyes, what would it take for the Brewers to get him back?

 

More than would be worth it. We have no reason to go after a mid rotation starter right now with Nelson, Peralta, Davies, Jungmann, Lopez, Pena, Houser, Hader and Garza either in MLB or close to MLB ready.

 

Odorizzi's a proven starter who's controllable through 2019. At some point this team is going to have to compete. I'd be fine trading for Odorizzi and dealing Peralta.

 

I know you are gaining one more year of control, but it just seems like a churning of the roster just to churn the roster.

 

And I wouldn't deal Peralta now, as I would hope he has a good first half and then deal him. His value is not as high as it can be.

 

Reardless, I don't see going after any starting pitcher right now. We have to alot of our own guys that are not proven, but can be a middle of the rotation type of pitcher.

[JohnBriggs12]

Would we really be talking about this if Jake wasn't a Brewer draft pick? What if Danny Salazar was being traded? Would the Brewers in this stage of the reconstruction go after him? I'm doubting it.

 

Where do you see this team in 2018? Still unloading veteran talent for what 2023? The Cubs could lose both Arietta and Lackey opening a slight window of opportunity that's likely to close quickly. Cole might become too expensive for Bucs. Arcia should be established by then. Phillips figures to be here, and Davis and Braun could still be around banging.

[pacopete4]

If this team isn't competing in 2018, everyone in the organization needs to be fired. What a joke.

[bill hAll Star]

Would we really be talking about this if Jake wasn't a Brewer draft pick? What if Danny Salazar was being traded? Would the Brewers in this stage of the reconstruction go after him? I'm doubting it.

 

Where do you see this team in 2018? Still unloading veteran talent for what 2023? The Cubs could lose both Arietta and Lackey opening a slight window of opportunity that's likely to close quickly. Cole might become too expensive for Bucs. Arcia should be established by then. Phillips figures to be here, and Davis and Braun could still be around banging.

 

I see the team being projected for .500 ball in 2018 with a bunch of very young players and a few vets brought in with our cash savings since nearly everyone will be a rookie/2nd year player. Maybe they have a Cubs-esque "1 year ahead of schedule" season that year, maybe 2019 is the year.

 

The important thing, though, is that they have 5 or more guys that could be All Stars one day all coming up with 4, 5, or 6 years of team control remaining and a completely loaded farm system of a few more guys following them. Couple that with a stockpile of AAAA helpful players that the Cards and Rays always seem to have so we aren't supplementing the team after injuries with Yuni B.

[bill hAll Star]

If this team isn't competing in 2018, everyone in the organization needs to be fired. What a joke.

 

The direction is what matters. If the team is getting back towards .500 ball with a ton of young players - this is what I want to see. If they are honestly contending in 2018, then wonderful. I think the realistic expectation is that 2018 is the beginning of the window.

 

2016 is a nuclear wasteland roster year, 2017 is the beginning of young players entering, 2018 is when everything begins to come together.

[BrewBalls]

Would we really be talking about this if Jake wasn't a Brewer draft pick? What if Danny Salazar was being traded? Would the Brewers in this stage of the reconstruction go after him? I'm doubting it.

 

Where do you see this team in 2018? Still unloading veteran talent for what 2023? The Cubs could lose both Arietta and Lackey opening a slight window of opportunity that's likely to close quickly. Cole might become too expensive for Bucs. Arcia should be established by then. Phillips figures to be here, and Davis and Braun could still be around banging.

If you are expecting us to compete with the majority of your best players being either rookies or 2nd year players you will likely be greatly disappointed come 2018. It took our last wave (Prince, Braun, Hardy, Hart, Weeks etc) almost 3 years just to reach the playoffs. Albeit mostly on the back of Sabathia who was a beast after being acquired. I don't see us making the playoffs until 2020 at the soonest.

[bill hAll Star]

Honestly, this is about what I would expect:

'16: 65 wins

'17: 68 wins

'18: 77 wins

'19: 85 wins

'20-'25: Expect 90+ wins/year.

 

That seems crazy to plan for a decade out, but it's the state we're in.

 

Given what Stearns was handed after '15, the only way you don't end up trying to win and winning 73-79 games for the next 3-4 years while moving nowhere for the years beyond that would involve Attanasio spending about $500+ million in total $ on future free agents.

[pacopete4]

If this team isn't competing in 2018, everyone in the organization needs to be fired. What a joke.

 

The direction is what matters. If the team is getting back towards .500 ball with a ton of young players - this is what I want to see. If they are honestly contending in 2018, then wonderful. I think the realistic expectation is that 2018 is the beginning of the window.

 

2016 is a nuclear wasteland roster year, 2017 is the beginning of young players entering, 2018 is when everything begins to come together.

 

 

I agree with most you say on this but honestly if this team is around .500 with young talent and with daylight busting through the seams by 2018 than we have the wrong leadership in place. We might have a roster full of turds this season but there are guys that are not that far away from the majors. A lot of pitchers included in that mix.

[bill hAll Star]

If this team isn't competing in 2018, everyone in the organization needs to be fired. What a joke.

 

The direction is what matters. If the team is getting back towards .500 ball with a ton of young players - this is what I want to see. If they are honestly contending in 2018, then wonderful. I think the realistic expectation is that 2018 is the beginning of the window.

 

2016 is a nuclear wasteland roster year, 2017 is the beginning of young players entering, 2018 is when everything begins to come together.

 

 

I agree with most you say on this but honestly if this team is around .500 with young talent and with daylight busting through the seams by 2018 than we have the wrong leadership in place. We might have a roster full of turds this season but there are guys that are not that far away from the majors. A lot of pitchers included in that mix.

 

I think you're overvaluing a little bit how likely some of the prospects we have are destined for success. Also, guys like Phillips, Hader, etc. are not going to be that good right away. As someone else noted, it took the Braun/Fielder/Hart/Weeks/Hardy era 3 years to get into the playoffs and they needed an MVP-type 2 months from Sabathia.

[CheezWizHed]

Would we really be talking about this if Jake wasn't a Brewer draft pick? What if Danny Salazar was being traded? Would the Brewers in this stage of the reconstruction go after him? I'm doubting it.

 

Where do you see this team in 2018? Still unloading veteran talent for what 2023? The Cubs could lose both Arietta and Lackey opening a slight window of opportunity that's likely to close quickly. Cole might become too expensive for Bucs. Arcia should be established by then. Phillips figures to be here, and Davis and Braun could still be around banging.

 

No, as someone else said, I expect 2018 to be an upswing year, but not a contending year. My post was trying to point out two things:

1) I don't see Stearns trading for MLB established talent (though Odorizzi is still pretty young). Its just not fitting the MO of his offseason.

2) I think most of the talk about Jake is due to him being a former Brewer draft pick and not an actual target to acquire. If we were talking about acquiring Danny Salazar, I doubt as many people would be pushing for it to happen. Because what it would take to happen would start breaking up the AA and AAA core we worked to establish.

[Boomer5]

This is going to be a 100 loss team the next two years, so there no need to worry about trading for a starting pitcher at this point unless its an absolute bargain. Let the Cardinals try and keep up with the Pirates and Cubs. This isnt our fight right now.

 

The reality is the Cubs and Pirates look like the class of the division, so its as good a time as any to tank for the first pick (and associated pool money) for the next two years.

 

Stearns is a doing a decent job picking up young minor leaguers and a great job ridding the MLB level of talent. If they develop at the minor league level and draft well in 16, 17, and 18, this team will be a force by the time the Cub and Pirate players are getting too expensive to keep.

[TURBO]

Would we really be talking about this if Jake wasn't a Brewer draft pick?

 

I don't see how it really matters. He was once Brewer property, is a pretty darned good pitcher, and he is possibly on the trading block. My original intent was saying how much it will bother me if we have to face the guy in a Cardinals uniform, but I then got sidetracked into the possibility of getting him back in a Brewers uniform.

[CheezWizHed]

I don't see how it really matters.

 

If sentimental feelings makes us do something silly, then yes, it does matter (e.g. trading way too much to get him). I wouldn't mind getting Jake back because he is a good pitcher. But there are other good pitchers out there also.

[JohnBriggs12]

Would we really be talking about this if Jake wasn't a Brewer draft pick? What if Danny Salazar was being traded? Would the Brewers in this stage of the reconstruction go after him? I'm doubting it.

 

Where do you see this team in 2018? Still unloading veteran talent for what 2023? The Cubs could lose both Arietta and Lackey opening a slight window of opportunity that's likely to close quickly. Cole might become too expensive for Bucs. Arcia should be established by then. Phillips figures to be here, and Davis and Braun could still be around banging.

If you are expecting us to compete with the majority of your best players being either rookies or 2nd year players you will likely be greatly disappointed come 2018. It took our last wave (Prince, Braun, Hardy, Hart, Weeks etc) almost 3 years just to reach the playoffs. Albeit mostly on the back of Sabathia who was a beast after being acquired. I don't see us making the playoffs until 2020 at the soonest.

 

It took the last wave for the Cubs to swing and miss on guys like Zambrano, Soriano and Ted Lilly, all of whom got big money deals handcuffing the prior ownership who's parent company was in bankruptcy court to the point they had to sell, and the Astros to get old and have to rebuild. That last Brewer wave benefitted from a weak division with a perennial loser in the Pirates and two teams on a fast downward track in Chicago and Houston.

 

Don't kid yourself, unless the Cubs unexpectedly crumble and the Cardinals go through a rare down period, the Brewers have only an outside chance at a division no matter how many prospects they acquire. That's why tanking to me is such a futile exercise. This franchise by it's nature will always be long shots with some years they have a chance and most they don't regardless of strategies. This one will be painful with no likely payoff. That's why I'm annoyed by it.

[bill hAll Star]

That's why tanking to me is such a futile exercise. This franchise by it's nature will always be long shots with some years they have a chance and most they don't regardless of strategies. This one will be painful with no likely payoff. That's why I'm annoyed by it.

 

You do realize with the current team makeup that aside from making a Zambrano/Soriano/Lilly-type splash that Mark A. doesn't have the money to spend, trying to beat the Cards/Cubs will be even more futile for the next 10 years if we don't rebuild (tanking just goes along with it)?

[MrTPlush]

We get it man. You would rather the Brewers put together a 75 win roster for the rest of your life. If you don't support a rebuild you might as well not be on this board because that is what 99% of the conversations will be related to. Honestly might as well not be a fan if you don't support a rebuild and prefer 70-75 win teams. Gosh maybe we can have an astronomical season and win 80 games!!

[pacopete4]

We get it man. You would rather the Brewers put together a 75 win roster for the rest of your life. If you don't support a rebuild you might as well not be on this board because that is what 99% of the conversations will be related to. Honestly might as well not be a fan if you don't support a rebuild and prefer 70-75 win teams. Gosh maybe we can have an astronomical season and win 80 games!!

 

Is this really needed? All viewpoints should be welcomed into this board as it is always a good thing to hear from all types of people who bring different ideas/thoughts into the process.

[monty57]

This one will be painful with no likely payoff. That's why I'm annoyed by it.

 

The present is a direct result of previous actions.

 

The Brewers did what they did over the past decade. Those actions netted the team a couple of playoff appearances, but it also left the franchise in a position that a complete rebuild was necessary. I think this could have been avoided, but it would have meant changing strategies years ago. Now I'm just happy to have a new GM and an intelligent owner who apparently had an epiphany and realized he was on the wrong track.

[sveumrules]

Just curious why it would "REALLY bother" you if Jake Odorizzi is traded to the Cardinals? For me personally, as someone who has followed Odorizzi's career with some curiosity since the Greinke deal, I'd be really happy for Jake to be traded to the Cardinals as he grew up a very short distance from there and was likely a STL fan growing up.