Brewers trade Jason Rogers to Pirates for more than you'd expect: CF Keon Broxton & RHP Trey Supak; scouting notes in thread [Latest: Rogers called up, post 243]

[crickets]

CC at the end of the year already said its not an option to put Davis at first.

[3and2Fastball]

Davis is either a LF or a DH in MLB. No other option that is realistic, really

[FVBrewerFan]

Thanks guys, asked and answered. Couldn't remember if he ever played 1B in the minors, I know he didn't in Appleton. I guess I'm not thrilled that CC says absolutely no way Braun or Davis play 1B. With all the depth in the OF, just seems logical you have to consider it at least. I don't know, maybe he sees Cooper's name in the depth chart and thinks it's Cecil Cooper?

[bill hAll Star]

I think Davis is already at a disadvantage for 1B being a shorter player. Then factor in the assumed fact that he probably isn't good at fielding grounders or errant throws and you might have a very bad defensive 1B on your hands.

[3and2Fastball]

Braun is another guy that is strictly a LF or DH, in any sense that borders realism. I suppose you could put Braun at 1B, and I was a longtime advocate of that, but I would be concerned he'd be fairly dreadful at 1B. I suppose if he's an average 1B or slightly below, defensively, and you save wear & tear on his body, hopefully prolonging his effectiveness with the bat, it is certainly worth a try. And during a rebuilding phase it would make sense to give it a shot

 

With Stearns as our GM it is difficult to imagine both Braun & Davis in the same starting outfield, other than simply as a key aspect of "Operation Tankjob" during the rebuild

[Jenkins5]

Speaking of young-ish OF's capable of playing all three spots, Michael Reed's arms say hello - wow.

 

That could be why he isn't going to be our CF next year! Looks like a beast right now!

[CheezWizHed]

I would imagine that its proven Davis can't play first. They tried it in ST and walked away from it. I'm pretty sure Braun could play first. Its quite possible CC is being coy about Braun in case they are trying to trade Davis.

 

Personally, I'm 50/50 on trading Davis. If he can stay away from the injury bug, he could break out a big more (260/330/540). Or he might have peaked at 27 already.

[3and2Fastball]

Khris Davis, despite being a defensive liability (ranked 25th among all LF's in overall WAR last year) is a legit bat. He ranked 11th among all LF's in wRC+ and 8th in wOBA (ahead of Justin Upton in both categories and ahead of Alex Gordon in wOBA). While it is possible he improves even more, I think now is the time to try to maximize the return on him, or perhaps more specifically after the signings of Cespedes, Upton & Gordon (when a 4th team is left looking for a LF)

[fondybrewfan]

If we are really considering signing Pedro Alvarez to play 1st could Davis really be that much worse? Alvarez is mega bad; is Davis super mega bad?

 

I do agree though that it makes a ton of sense to trade Davis because it is fairly obvious he isn't in the long term plans. If there is one area where the Brewers have a lot of minor league talent coming up soon it is in the OF and Davis is probably the least versatile player of all the potential OF options.

[bill hAll Star]

If we are really considering signing Pedro Alvarez to play 1st could Davis really be that much worse? Alvarez is mega bad; is Davis super mega bad?

 

Given that the Brewers payroll has been reduced to nothingness, why not take Alvarez, trade Davis, and then trade Alvarez down the road? I'd take that over just playing Davis out of place at 1B and only getting one trade return. Might as well trade Davis and still take the boom/bust pickup in Alvarez to add possibly more prospects down the road.

[MrTPlush]

I think the thought process behind Alvarez is buying low on his bat to flip later as a DH.

[1992casey]

is Davis super mega bad?

 

Apparently. It sounds like it was tried briefly and that he was so obviously bad that a judgment could be made quickly.

[Point Beer Is Best]

If we are really considering signing Pedro Alvarez to play 1st could Davis really be that much worse? Alvarez is mega bad; is Davis super mega bad?

 

 

That's the part that is confusing me. Pursuing Alvarez (if we really are) seems like a classic Doug Melvin move, and counterintuitive to what we've seen from Stearns. We have three players (Braun, Lucroy, Garza) signed to actual contracts for more than one year. If Alvarez is going to a) require a multi-year deal; b) not come cheap; c) need a platoon partner; and d) provide terrible defense during a time when we want to build up the confidence of a young pitching staff, what is the purpose of signing him? I'd honestly rather sign a no-hit defense-first player to man 1B than a guy with the skillset of Alvarez.

 

If his price comes down and will sign a 1 year deal (with maybe an option), I'd potentially be fine with that move if the logic is that you're giving up minimal assets (cash) in exchange for a potential deadline trade chip to acquire a few more lottery tickets under team control.

[CheezWizHed]

is Davis super mega bad?

 

Apparently. It sounds like it was tried briefly and that he was so obviously bad that a judgment could be made quickly.

 

Plus, what gain would that be to the Brewers? He isn't a long term solution and you only risk damaging his trade value. Of our MLB and AAA OFers, Braun in the only one that makes sense to move to 1B.

[brewcrewdue80]

Posted elsewhere but Yes. Davis cannot play 1b. It was tried in Spring Training in practice and immediately he was thrown back to LF. The two I haven't figured out is Braun or Santana at 1b. Braun had made the comment he'd play anywhere but 3b if asked I believe when he was being moved to RF for Davis.

 

Something that I'm not in belief of is 55 or 60win team. That we have 100loss team in our hands. We haven't traded our SPs. Until Nelson or Peralta is removed really stripping this team after all the trades this team. The basic Replacement team should win 48games. I think there's more talent in the arms to get us to better than 100losses. Unlike the teams of Miami, Houston, Cubs in their rebuilds. And we're suddenly deep if we lose the 5th SP. I'd have a lot of belief in who the team brought up. Nelson, Peralta, Jungmann, Davies, Garza or Lopez. The bullpen looks settled for quite some time with all the RP arms. Remember we've lost Lohse. Garza cannot be as bad as he was and the team can move on from him quickly if he is. Peralta was as bad as you'd imagine him. And while I'd say Jungmann takes a step back those 3 SP slots being better in 2016 will make it hard for me not to see this as a 68win team again.

None of the bats on this roster performed above expectations last season. They performed poorly enough to win 68 games. I don't believe the bats will fail to produce one above expectations again.

 

Do I see them winning 81games? No of course not. Not with this division and the NL's top teams Rotations. We've added depth and that extends to the ML team(aside from 1b) The worst man on the 25man is better than what the 25th man has been in the past.

[MKE81]

Khris Davis, despite being a defensive liability (ranked 25th among all LF's in overall WAR last year) is a legit bat. He ranked 11th among all LF's in wRC+ and 8th in wOBA (ahead of Justin Upton in both categories and ahead of Alex Gordon in wOBA). While it is possible he improves even more, I think now is the time to try to maximize the return on him, or perhaps more specifically after the signings of Cespedes, Upton & Gordon (when a 4th team is left looking for a LF)

 

Braun is NOT a liability in the OF. he can play LF or RF (he's better in LF clearly). i don't care what nerdy analytics you can dig up to support what you're saying - use your eyes as well (my eyes are what tells me Davis has the worst corner OF arm i'll ever see in my life). and Khris Davis is NOT a legit bat. he has legit power and literally nothing else. while his BB rate rose this past season in fewer ABs his K rate rose. he's proved at this level not to be a high OBP guy, not to have an understanding of the strike zone, not to hit line to line, not to hit for a solid avg, not a contact hitter and has not showed any consistency whatsoever. he's had 3 months over the past 2 seasons that have resulted in the majority of his power numbers (best tool). and that doesn't even include his avg at best defense with brutal arm. yes, you're correct that now is the time to move him especially after his final 2 months last year. but not because it's when you can maximize the return rather he's the opposite of what this team is becoming and because room needs to be made for Santana in RF.

 

Please, I beg people, stop relying on wOBA, WAR, etc. That's part of the evaluation process but too many people use it as the final say. There isn't 1 GM that would take Khris Davis over Alex Gordon. Davis also had a higher wOBA than Heyward too lol

[yfinn6]

Khris Davis, despite being a defensive liability (ranked 25th among all LF's in overall WAR last year) is a legit bat. He ranked 11th among all LF's in wRC+ and 8th in wOBA (ahead of Justin Upton in both categories and ahead of Alex Gordon in wOBA). While it is possible he improves even more, I think now is the time to try to maximize the return on him, or perhaps more specifically after the signings of Cespedes, Upton & Gordon (when a 4th team is left looking for a LF)

 

Braun is NOT a liability in the OF. he can play LF or RF (he's better in LF clearly). i don't care what nerdy analytics you can dig up to support what you're saying - use your eyes as well (my eyes are what tells me Davis has the worst corner OF arm i'll ever see in my life). and Khris Davis is NOT a legit bat. he has legit power and literally nothing else. while his BB rate rose this past season in fewer ABs his K rate rose. he's proved at this level not to be a high OBP guy, not to have an understanding of the strike zone, not to hit line to line, not to hit for a solid avg, not a contact hitter and has not showed any consistency whatsoever. he's had 3 months over the past 2 seasons that have resulted in the majority of his power numbers (best tool). and that doesn't even include his avg at best defense with brutal arm. yes, you're correct that now is the time to move him especially after his final 2 months last year. but not because it's when you can maximize the return rather he's the opposite of what this team is becoming and because room needs to be made for Santana in RF.

 

Please, I beg people, stop relying on wOBA, WAR, etc. That's part of the evaluation process but too many people use it as the final say. There isn't 1 GM that would take Khris Davis over Alex Gordon. Davis also had a higher wOBA than Heyward too lol

 

Please, enlighten us on your scouting ability while watching FSWI.

 

Edit - everyone knows Khris Davis has a shoulder problem and can't throw. You are just becoming a broken record with your scorn for anyone using advance metrics. We all watch the Brewers, we see the same things you do, when evaluating trade pieces/proposals it doesn't hurt to use advance statistics. The fact that you point out your disdain for them in every.single.post. is tiresome. We get it.

[logan82]

I trust the metrics over a fan watching games. Braun is a good example of a guy who is below average on defense but doesn't make any noticeable mistakes so people think he is good.

[MrTPlush]

Ryan Braun is an absolute garbage RFer. I know that by advanced stats, TV, and watching him in person. He is not good at all. If you think he is you need to watch more closely. The only good plays I have ever seen him make are after pathetic routes and horrible reaction times that any average defender would have made with ease. The amount of balls he misses that turn into doubles or singles is quite sad.

[yfinn6]

I trust the metrics over a fan watching games.

 

Yeah, they tend not to be subjective. Funny how they can elicit some strong emotion from some fans; heck, I know that I used to be one of them until I just gave in. Of course, this was several years ago.

[logan82]

You have to use them right though. There is some variation in them but they are good enough to tell the difference between awful, bad, average, good, and elite if you look at 2-3 years worth of metrics.

[MadScientist]

An OBP of 323 isn't stellar, but isn't horrible. His power is impressive. His HR/AB was top 5 in the NL. HR's top 10 even with 100 fewer PA's than he could have had. Davis is a legit, valuable MLB bat. If the Brewers trade him, they should command a very solid return for giving up one of better power hitters in baseball, who is still cheap and controllable.

 

Yes his arm is poor, but his range is reasonable. He's not a dumpster fire in left.

 

I'm not saying they should keep him to build around him for the future, but he should not be dumped just to make room for Santana.

[jerichoholicninja]

Khris Davis, despite being a defensive liability (ranked 25th among all LF's in overall WAR last year) is a legit bat. He ranked 11th among all LF's in wRC+ and 8th in wOBA (ahead of Justin Upton in both categories and ahead of Alex Gordon in wOBA). While it is possible he improves even more, I think now is the time to try to maximize the return on him, or perhaps more specifically after the signings of Cespedes, Upton & Gordon (when a 4th team is left looking for a LF)

 

Braun is NOT a liability in the OF. he can play LF or RF (he's better in LF clearly). i don't care what nerdy analytics you can dig up to support what you're saying - use your eyes as well (my eyes are what tells me Davis has the worst corner OF arm i'll ever see in my life). and Khris Davis is NOT a legit bat. he has legit power and literally nothing else. while his BB rate rose this past season in fewer ABs his K rate rose. he's proved at this level not to be a high OBP guy, not to have an understanding of the strike zone, not to hit line to line, not to hit for a solid avg, not a contact hitter and has not showed any consistency whatsoever. he's had 3 months over the past 2 seasons that have resulted in the majority of his power numbers (best tool). and that doesn't even include his avg at best defense with brutal arm. yes, you're correct that now is the time to move him especially after his final 2 months last year. but not because it's when you can maximize the return rather he's the opposite of what this team is becoming and because room needs to be made for Santana in RF.

 

Please, I beg people, stop relying on wOBA, WAR, etc. That's part of the evaluation process but too many people use it as the final say. There isn't 1 GM that would take Khris Davis over Alex Gordon. Davis also had a higher wOBA than Heyward too lol

 

Again I reiterate my post about new members coming here and making combative posts. What is going on?

[MNBrew]

These are the Brewers OF'ers that will almost certainly be AAA or higher.

 

Davis

Santana

Braun

Peterson

Broxton

Flores

Presley

Reed

Phillips

Wren

 

Barring injury, trade, etc. Davis and Braun are the only ones guaranteed to be in Milwaukee. Wren, Phillips, and Reed should be the OF in Colorado Springs. That leaves 5 guys for 3 or so spots. Peterson is certainly a DFA candidate but just logistically speaking some of these guys need to be moved.

Flores may not be ready to start the season after breaking his ankle last September. I don't know if there have been any reports on his recovery.

I sure hope Wren isn't starting at AAA over anyone on that list. Presley's a crapshoot, though I liked him in a darkhorse sort of way when he was up here w/ the Twins. Peterson's not a lousy bat (at times good), is adequate in the OF, and came up originally as a 1B -- there's your Stearns-positive versatility -- so I have absolutely no problem if he's the 25th guy on the roster backing up with occasional starts at any of 1B or the 3 OF spots.

[sveumrules]

(my eyes are what tells me Davis has the worst corner OF arm i'll ever see in my life). and Khris Davis is NOT a legit bat. he has legit power and literally nothing else. There isn't 1 GM that would take Khris Davis over Alex Gordon.

 

I think it's interesting that you ding Khris Davis so much for his lack of an arm (literally the least important of the 5 tools and also less important than some things which aren't even considered one of the 5 tools like plate discipline, makeup, etc) then write him off as not being a legit hitter because he only offers power, which is one of if not the most important of the 5 tools for a position player to possess.

 

I'd imagine there are a handful of GM's that would prefer Davis to Gordon, even though Gordon is clearly the better player. Gordon is probably going to cost around 20 million a year for the next 5 or so years. Davis will be lucky to crack 20 million total over the next 4 years depending on how arbitration plays out. 32 y/o Gordon at 5/100 vs 28 y/o Davis at 4/25 is hardly a slam dunk one way or another.