Brewers trade Jason Rogers to Pirates for more than you'd expect: CF Keon Broxton & RHP Trey Supak; scouting notes in thread [Latest: Rogers called up, post 243]

[AdvantageSchneider]

I love the trade too. What is Roger's upside? A poor man's Sean Casey? By the time we will be competitive again he'll be on the wrong side of 30 anyway. I hope for the best for the guy because I'd much rather see the pirates win than the Cubs or Cards, but I have a feeling he'll be released by the pirates before we win more than 82 games.

 

My buddy was driven crazy by Joe Block always mentioning early in the season that Rogers led the league in pinch hits and was a 32cnd round pick. I guess Roger's pinch hitting ability really drove his trade value up.

 

I've read a lot of people here complain about the trades Melvin made, but I can't imagine what it's like to be a pirate fan right now. They haven't gotten out of the kiddie table round of the playoffs yet and they will be underdogs every year to the cubs. The pirates never made any splash moves during the last three years and there's a good chance their best opportunity to make a deep run in the playoffs has passed them by.

[3and2Fastball]

I would think that:

 

A) The Pirates have been trying to trade Broxton for awhile. He has talent and was never going to play CF for the Pirates

 

B) Jason Rogers is more highly valued among MLB GM's than even us "not so casual" fans would like to think.

 

Gotta give something to get and this could be a good solid trade for both parties

[ctmyers]

Buxton seems very similar to Mike Cameron, which would be a very good trade off for Jason Rogers. Add in another projectable arm and this trade is great for where the team is now and will be in the next two rebuilding years.

[BallFour]

OF is so crowded up and down the org. I really wonder where Santana will be to start the year. I hope they move dead arm Davis.

[Bombers]

Here is a quick blurb by our own TheCrew on draft day analysis of Supak in 2014

viewtopic.php?p=896588#p896588

No. 73 Pittsburgh Pirates: Trey Supak, rhp, La Grange (Texas) HS

 

Supak has improved considerably this spring and offers a projectable body and feel for pitching. He has a loose arm and has been up to 94 with his fastball and his curveball flashes at least above-average.

 

I like the move. I think you traded a guy for more than his worth.

[brewmann04]

OF is so crowded up and down the org. I really wonder where Santana will be to start the year. I hope they move dead arm Davis.

 

I am getting the feeling Santana will start at 3A

[TooLiveBrew]

Here is a quick blurb by our own TheCrew on draft day analysis of Supak in 2014

viewtopic.php?p=896588#p896588

No. 73 Pittsburgh Pirates: Trey Supak, rhp, La Grange (Texas) HS

 

Supak has improved considerably this spring and offers a projectable body and feel for pitching. He has a loose arm and has been up to 94 with his fastball and his curveball flashes at least above-average.

 

I like the move. I think you traded a guy for more than his worth.

To clarify, TheCrew07 was quoting snippets from Baseball America in that post.

[umphrey]

I would think that:

 

A) The Pirates have been trying to trade Broxton for awhile. He has talent and was never going to play CF for the Pirates

 

B) Jason Rogers is more highly valued among MLB GM's than even us "not so casual" fans would like to think.

 

Gotta give something to get and this could be a good solid trade for both parties

 

I definitely think B is true. Rogers has been a very good hitter every year of his 5 year career and even though he's older, ages 28-32 are really nice for a 1B. Not to oversell him but I think he is a nice add for a team with tight payroll and some expendable prospects.

[AdvantageSchneider]

Tom Haudricourt of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel speculates that this could be setting things up for another move. Pedro Alvarez, who was recently non-tendered by the Pirates, has been mentioned as one possibility.

 

Man, I would not want to be a pirate's fan to think essentially they "traded" three guys for Jason Rogers.

[clancyphile]

In one sense, I'm a little frustrated with the trade. Rogers was not a bad cheap option at first, and the Brewers could have just had Reed and Santana handle CF this year.

 

That being said, the vibe I pick up from Keon Broxton is... a less-rushed Carlos Gomez type of player. Speed, good defense, and emerging power. If that is the case, then this deal could be a steal, no matter how Supak turns out.

 

If that is the case, then Maverick Phillips becomes a trade asset.

[reillymcshane]

It's hard not to root for Rogers - 30something round draft pick, never really a prospect, gritty battler type, smart hitter. It was great to see him do well when he finally got a chance last year. I hope he does well for Pittsburgh.

 

That all said, the guys we got are interesting. I'm all for pitching lottery tickets - the more we get, the more we have a chance to find a gem. And Broxton looks like an interesting guy - I'm all for giving him a chance. I'll live with the strikeouts if he can play good defense and get on base at at a decent clip (he's had an OBP of over .350 the last couple of years in the minors).

 

Now's the time to try stuff like this. I'm betting something else is in the works for a 1B. People mention Alvarez, but that just sort of scares me. I'd rather bring back Clark or someone like that.

[SRB]

Just glancing at stats and blurbs, Broxton and Rogers seem roughly equivalent, except one is a CF and one is a 1B. Older players in the minors with solid stats for their positions who might be able to claim a MLB starting job. Leads me to believe that Stearns thinks 1B will be easier to fill than CF, either because he wants to play Cecchini there with Middlebrooks at 3B, or because he likes the market for 1B (which does seem pretty solid - plenty of guys like Alvarez who you can sign and hopefully flip if they have a good first half). Supak obviously just a huge bonus in that situation.

[MKE81]

I love Stearns. Wheel and deal like it ain't no thang. Don't understand why Santana wouldn't have a spot or would start in AAA though. He's dominated that level already and having a full MLB season under his belt in RF is what's needed to help this team moving forward. I would be completely and utterly shocked if Stearns doesn't trade Davis. He doesn't bring one thing to the table that Stearns has as a top priority when building his team

[AdvantageSchneider]

Why would you be affraid of Alvarez? They won't sign him to a big money deal. If he stinks who cares, just means we get a better draft pick. If he puts it all together he'd be a huge trade chip later in the year. Maybe getting cut is the motivation he needs to have a great year.

[SRB]

I love Stearns. Wheel and deal like it ain't no thang. Don't understand why Santana wouldn't have a spot or would start in AAA though. He's dominated that level already and having a full MLB season under his belt in RF is what's needed to help this team moving forward. I would be completely and utterly shocked if Stearns doesn't trade Davis. He doesn't bring one thing to the table that Stearns has as a top priority when building his team

 

100% agree. I've been baffled as to why anyone would prioritize Davis over Santana on a rebuilding team, especially given that Santana has destroyed AAA, had a huge hot streak out of the gate last year in MLB, and finished with a respectable .768 OPS (Davis = career .809 OPS). Oh yeah, and he's actually a solid defender...

[reillymcshane]

Why would you be affraid of Alvarez? They won't sign him to a big money deal. If he stinks who cares, just means we get a better draft pick. If he puts it all together he'd be a huge trade chip later in the year. Maybe getting cut is the motivation he needs to have a great year.

Alvarez simply scares me as a defensive player. He just looks so awful. Nothing is more frustrating than guys who can't play defense with some modicum of competency. I say 'sort of scares' because I realize he could really hit well in Milwaukee. Guys like Alvarez scare me because we get sucked in by the sexy HR talent - and ignore the entire package, which in the end, is often a negative.

 

Ultimately, a guy like Alvarez is probably worth the try. As noted, if he has a good season he can fetch a nice return.

[clancyphile]

I love Stearns. Wheel and deal like it ain't no thang. Don't understand why Santana wouldn't have a spot or would start in AAA though. He's dominated that level already and having a full MLB season under his belt in RF is what's needed to help this team moving forward. I would be completely and utterly shocked if Stearns doesn't trade Davis. He doesn't bring one thing to the table that Stearns has as a top priority when building his team

 

100% agree. I've been baffled as to why anyone would prioritize Davis over Santana on a rebuilding team, especially given that Santana has destroyed AAA, had a huge hot streak out of the gate last year in MLB, and finished with a respectable .768 OPS (Davis = career .809 OPS). Oh yeah, and he's actually a solid defender...

 

Davis's bat is improving, and improving a lot - especially his walk rate (44 in 440 PAs, compared to 52 in 549 in 2014). What may be throwing people off is the time Davis missed with injury in 2015. He had that plate discipline in the early minors.

 

I'd be happy to have a Davis-Santana-Braun outfield, because I think Braun will rebound closer to his 2007-2012 form, and Davis will improve his OPS to the .850-.900 range as well. Broxton could make things interesting, as he could be a circa 2012 Carlos Gomez.

[1992casey]

(44 in 440 PAs, compared to 52 in 549 in 2014)

 

I was going to say that those walk rates were about the same, but Khris had 32 walks in 549 PA in 2014.

[MrTPlush]

Leave it to Clancy to pull the Carlos Gomez comparison out of his pocket.

 

And if he becomes a Gomez type player Braun would become a big trade asset so we can have a Santana/Phillips/Broxton outfield...though I don't expect Broxton to ever hit well enough to really be a force.

[gregmag]

This is beautiful. If someone had told me we could flip Rogers for a guy who's ready for a starting shot in cf but who's blocked on a playoff team, plus a big sp prospect whom that playoff team grabbed 18 months ago in the second round, I would have laughed my head off.

 

(OTOH, if you had told me before the offseason that we'd trade for Betancourt and Broxton, I would have sobbed.)

 

I love Rogers. The man worked hard, seized an opportunity, and established himself as a legit mlb bench bat. But he has never provided any actual evidence that he's a starting 1b. I would trade him straight up for Broxton 10 times out of 10, but the Pirates have different needs at this stage. I hope Jason kicks all manner of butt.

[AdvantageSchneider]

This is beautiful. If someone had told me we could flip Rogers for a guy who's ready for a starting shot in cf but who's blocked on a playoff team, plus a big sp prospect whom that playoff team grabbed 18 months ago in the second round, I would have laughed my head off.

 

(OTOH, if you had told me before the offseason that we'd trade for Betancourt and Broxton, I would have sobbed.)

 

I love Rogers. The man worked hard, seized an opportunity, and established himself as a legit mlb bench bat. But he has never provided any actual evidence that he's a starting 1b. I would trade him straight up for Broxton 10 times out of 10, but the Pirates have different needs at this stage. I hope Jason kicks all manner of butt.

 

Yes, all Brewer fans should give Rogers a standing O when he comes back as a Pirate.

[bjkrautk]

When I heard Rogers was traded, I expected to hate the deal...was surprised to see the quality of prospects we got for someone who has still not been used as an everyday player.

 

Given the emphasis on versatility, and our outfield situation getting even more crowded....I have to wonder if the Brewers will try to give Khris Davis an extended look at 1b this spring. I know he's played there before, and has said he doesn't particularly like it, but the bats play, and he has the weakest throwing arm of our corner OF options.

 

The other real possibility is that acquiring a CF means the Brewers will trade Davis yet this off-season, since he turns 28 on Monday.

[TooLiveBrew]

(OTOH, if you had told me before the offseason that we'd trade for Betancourt and Broxton, I would have sobbed.)

Thank you for the belly-laugh. I'd thought about the Broxton name being kinda funny, given Jonathan's build compared to Keon's... but I guess enough time had passed from the Rodriguez-Betancourt deal that it'd fallen off my mental radar.

[The stache]

While I liked Rogers (and I'd have loved to have him as a bench bat in 2016), I think the return we got was quite good.

 

You know, guys, one thing is jumping out at me, and it's a trend that I like: I'm seeing more and more athleticism enter into the Brewers farm system. Athleticism and versatility are two things that are always welcome, and we're stocking up on both. Gone are the days of "hey, this guy will hit .285 with 25 HR, but he can only play in left field, or first base." Too many hit first guys with no natural position, or real defensive acumen to speak of. And what do I say to this apparent shift in philosophy?

 

Yay and double Yay!!!

 

Athleticism cannot be taught. You either have it, or you don't. The fundamentals can be taught, and with the right collective coaching staff in place throughout the system, we can take these young guys, these guys that already flashed real baseball instincts, teach them the bedrock principles of being a good Major League player, and see what happens.

 

More speed. More range. Fewer fly balls getting to the gap. The best thing we can do to help our pitching staff of the future, whoever they may be, is for the positional players behind them to show real talent defensively. Orlando Arcia and Brett Phillips are the new thing in Milwaukee, and I like it.

 

My outlook for this franchise has changed dramatically in the past twelve months. I love where we are headed. The future cannot get here fast enough.

[3and2Fastball]

Maverick Phillips is a future All-Star (hopefully)

 

Just an opinion, but I believe that Santana is not part of the longterm plans for the Brewers. Stearns was part of the brainthrust in Houston that traded away Santana. There is too much swing & miss in Santana's game, and not enough putting the ball in play. He did have a very good year in AAA this year, and he certainly has potential. I could be wrong, and I'm not saying that I personally think that Santana isn't going to be a very good player, I just suspect that Stearns doesn't value him highly and either did the Houston front office.