pen to starters

[Crash2303]

there have been recent reports previously linked of the Brewers looking for additional starting pitcher depth, saying the competition for the last two rotation spots are between Jungmann, Davies, Pena with Wagner, Lopez, Hader, Houser, Cravy on the outside looking in. However, nowhere have I heard mentioned the possibility of Blazek, Thornburg, or Smith moving back to the rotation. As far as people know are the Brewers not considering them at all for the rotation this spring- and if so, why? I'd think all three of them have good potential there and would be better options then at least Wagner or Cravy.

[MrTPlush]

Thornburg and Blazek should be strictly bullpen only. That's where they have found success keep them there. Both were always long shots as starters so why mess around with them?

 

Now there is always a case for Will Smith, but even if he could starts what is he, maybe a #4 starter? Keep him where he dominates and not add to the pile of back of the rotation starters.

 

Simply put there is no need so that is why they aren't in consideration.

[pacopete4]

Yeah there gets to be a point where you see a guy have pretty good success in the pen and with their ages, there is no reason to mess around with the possibility of starting. It is nice to have guys in the pen who can give you multiple innings as well so they are valuable pieces to a competent pen.

[MKE81]

Thornburg should be traded and Blazek, Smith should never be removed from roles they've had success where their value's high or potential is high. Pena, Houser should be in the pen. Cravy should be traded as he's not better than any guys listed. Hader should be a SP at this point as he's had great success there through AA but worst case can easily transition to the pen and be very effective

[CheezWizHed]

Pena and Cravy to the pen, maybe. But no way Houser should be put there now. Houser has the same ceiling and similar profile as Jimmy Nelson. He certainly needs a chance to fail first.

 

Pena is out of options, so to the pen. And if he succeeds, then give him a chance to get back in the starting rotation.

 

Cravy is a decent 6th starter/long man.

[QuevedosTongue]

It's possible that Stearns is looking for a SP who has some experience to provide some semblance of professionalism to the staff. With such a young staff that's something that could be needed on the big league team. Garza has a ton of experience and has had a ton of success, but he's also a different personality and may not be the right guy for that. I would say it's a role Lohse filled and they may be looking for someone else to do that.

[BrewersAA]

there have been recent reports previously linked of the Brewers looking for additional starting pitcher depth, saying the competition for the last two rotation spots are between Jungmann, Davies, Pena with Wagner, Lopez, Hader, Houser, Cravy on the outside looking in. However, nowhere have I heard mentioned the possibility of Blazek, Thornburg, or Smith moving back to the rotation. As far as people know are the Brewers not considering them at all for the rotation this spring- and if so, why? I'd think all three of them have good potential there and would be better options then at least Wagner or Cravy.

 

I agree with you. It seems like most people have forgot that 1 thornburg was really really good as a starter and 2 that his desire is to start. I'm not sure what to make of blazek, but he may be best suited for the pen, too small of a sample to say either way for me. Then there's will smith,I've been on this train for a while, he has front of the rotation stuff, nasty 3 pitch mix, the demeanor of an ace, and the build of a work horse, oh and he's left handed. Last time he was a starter he had JUST added a slider and it wasn't a great pitch, today it's plus plus, probably the second best left handed slider in baseball, I understand his wonderful success in the pen makes you not want to move him, but this team is rebuilding, why not try? The way I see it, his value is as high as it will ever be as a reliever, but if he even just an average starter he nearly doubles his value, if he's good as a starter it's a total coup, if he completely fails move him back to the pen and he still has the same value he does today. I just don't see a negative to trying, only wins or break even. I know people get concerned about injuries, but they happen in the pen just as often as the rotation and with a guy as high-usage as smith the risk is a wash.

[MrTPlush]

Pass me some Will Smith kool aid. The guy doesn't even have a third pitch. Till that day not a chance he goes to the rotation. That slider won't be so foolish after your 2nd or 3rd plate appearance.

[jerichoholicninja]

Pass me some Will Smith kool aid. The guy doesn't even have a third pitch. Till that day not a chance he goes to the rotation. That slider won't be so foolish after your 2nd or 3rd plate appearance.

 

And except for last year, RHB destroy him. Smith in the rotation could turn into Kyle Lohse bad.

[CheezWizHed]

For Will Smith, I'm concerned about his ability to pitch that many innings. The last two years he has worn down and been far less effective in the second half. Maybe the regularity of pitching every 5 days would help that, but its at least a red flag to increase him up to 150-180 innings when he starts wearing down at 50 or 60 innings.

[logan82]

I honestly would think relieving is harder on an arm than starting. You have irregular work or can be overworked.

[Boomer5]

Id like to see Blazek start. I think he would do a good job in that role and his value for a possible trade would go way up.

[BrewersAA]

Pass me some Will Smith kool aid. The guy doesn't even have a third pitch. Till that day not a chance he goes to the rotation. That slider won't be so foolish after your 2nd or 3rd plate appearance.

 

Your assumption is wrong. Smiths best two pitches prior to coming to the Brewers were his power fastball and plus changup, he also had a curve to go with it, he just started to develop the slider before he came over. He has 4 pitches, 3 of which are plus or better. The only reason you only see the slider out of the pen is because it's become his best, and in short stints you use your best pitches.

 

Here's an article on him on fangraphs from around the time of the trade, good read to put with what we have seen out of smith. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/brewers-land-will-smith-and-his-possible-breakthrough/

[MrTPlush]

Pass me some Will Smith kool aid. The guy doesn't even have a third pitch. Till that day not a chance he goes to the rotation. That slider won't be so foolish after your 2nd or 3rd plate appearance.

 

Your assumption is wrong. Smiths best two pitches prior to coming to the Brewers were his power fastball and plus changup, he also had a curve to go with it, he just started to develop the slider before he came over. He has 4 pitches, 3 of which are plus or better. The only reason you only see the slider out of the pen is because it's become his best, and in short stints you use your best pitches.

 

Here's an article on him on fangraphs from around the time of the trade, good read to put with what we have seen out of smith. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/brewers-land-will-smith-and-his-possible-breakthrough/

 

If what you were saying was true he would already be an ace on our team. But since he continues to be in the bullpen it is quite obvious the Brewers do not view him as a good enough starter to outweigh his value in the bullpen.

 

Will Smith does not have 3 plus pitches. He has one plus pitch in his slider that is it. The article talks about his NOT overpowering fastball and his not so great change up. That is exactly how I would describe both pitches in the present, though he never uses his curveball.

 

The article states what I already said. Will Smith is a back end of the rotation pitcher and even that isn't a sure shot. He has so much more value in his current role. Right now Will Smith is a rare commodity, as a starter he would be one of many back end types.

[JohnBriggs12]

With the arms they acquired in the trades being at or near the big leagues, and the emergence of guys like Lopez and Wagner who were already in the system coming off of dominant seasons at AA, the Blazek to the rotation idea seems less a priority though anything is possible. I guess if you are going to experiment, this is the year to do it and it goes both ways. Imagine Peralta as a closer coming in throwing 98 with heavy sink? Or Jungmann throwing 96 with his cross body delivery for an inning?

[CheezWizHed]

Imagine Peralta as a closer coming in throwing 98 with heavy sink? Or Jungmann throwing 96 with his cross body delivery for an inning?

 

Just leave Blazek where he is. As others said, he would be mixed in a muddle of other back-end rotation types. Smith could be a possibility, but still not sure its a great idea.

 

Peralta to the pen could be interesting, but not until he had another shot at starting. He deserves another 1/2 season at least. He had an "OK" rookie start. A nice second year. And an injury filled on last year. Is he a #3 or #5 SP? I don't think we know that yet.

 

Jungmann, no. Far too many possibilities on him starting yet. The idea is to maximize these guys. I don't think Jungmann will be a 2.50 ERA pitcher as he was the first couple months. But his has a good chance to be in the 3-3.50 range. Which is far more valuable than he would be in the pen.

[MrTPlush]

Wily Peralta to the pen would be really ill advised for two reasons:

 

#1 He has just hit arbitration and will make a decent figure. Not sure it makes financial sense unless you really believe he will be dominant. Doesn't he struggle in the first inning or is that Nelson?

 

#2 Why does everyone forget he is only a season removed from a solid rotation arm. He got injured this year give him a chance.

[JohnBriggs12]

Wily Peralta to the pen would be really ill advised for two reasons:

 

#1 He has just hit arbitration and will make a decent figure. Not sure it makes financial sense unless you really believe he will be dominant. Doesn't he struggle in the first inning or is that Nelson?

 

#2 Why does everyone forget he is only a season removed from a solid rotation arm. He got injured this year give him a chance.

 

Wasn't advocating moving Peralta to pen, just dreaming up scenarios if other arms need rotation spots down the road. First inning woes as a starter don't necessarily translate to troubles in relief either as focus can be the cause and situations dictate focus and late inning relief isn't first inning of a start. By the way it's Nelson who tends to struggle in the first inning.