Todd Frazier to ChiSox in three team deal

[reillymcshane]

The White Sox acquired 3B Todd Frazier in three way deal with the Reds and the Dodgers.

 

The primary guys in the trade are 2B Jose Peraza - who goes to Cincy - and pitcher Frankie Montas - who goes to LA. Peraza is ranked #24 on the MLB Pipeline listing, and is pretty close to being ready for the majors. Montas was listed at #54, and likely is headed to AAA in 2016. The Reds also get Brandon Dixon and outfielder Scott Schebler from the Dodgers. The White Sox also sent infielder Micah Johnson and outfielder Trayce Thompson to the Dodgers.

 

Frazier hit 35 HR last season, and will be under control by the ChiSox for two years.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/14380879/the-white-sox-get-third-baseman-todd-frazier-cincinnati-reds-three-team-trade

 

Reds are obviously rebuilding. It remains to be seen what happens to Chapman after his legal issues, but another rumor has Brandon Phillips heading to DC. The Reds may be worse than Milwaukee next year.

[pacopete4]

The Reds may be worse than Milwaukee next year.

 

All depends on what the Brewers do with some of their bigger pieces. If they deal, it'll be an all out battle for the cellar. If they hold on guys like Luc, we probably are the better club.

[NievesNoNO]

Count me as a little underwhelmed by the return for Frazier. He's one of the better third basemen in the league. I know Pereza has a nice prospect ranking but he doesn't excite me much. Schebler seems interesting as a side piece at least in a Khris Davis sort of way.

 

Makes me a little less enthusiastic about a Lucroy trade as I'd value the two pretty similar. I know... two completely different GMS and different situations..

[sveumrules]

Lucroy's value is much higher than Frazier's I would imagine.

 

Frazier 2014-15 264/322/479 wRC+ 118

Lucroy 2014-15 287/355/436 wRC+ 117

 

So you're looking at similar production at the plate, with Frazier offering more power while Lucroy offers more contact/OBP. Looking at other factors Frazier is due 7.5 million this year with one more year of arbitration in 2017 before hitting free agency. Meanwhile Lucroy is under contract for 4 million this year with a 5.25 million option next year before hitting free agency. So he is cheaper and plays a more premium position while offering similar offensive production.

[brewtank34]

Can we just trade Luc already and be done with it? I'm pretty stoaked to see what return he'll bring.

[gregmag]

Lucroy's value is much higher than Frazier's I would imagine.

 

Frazier 2014-15 264/322/479 wRC+ 118

Lucroy 2014-15 287/355/436 wRC+ 117

 

So you're looking at similar production at the plate, with Frazier offering more power while Lucroy offers more contact/OBP. Looking at other factors Frazier is due 7.5 million this year with one more year of arbitration in 2017 before hitting free agency. Meanwhile Lucroy is under contract for 4 million this year with a 5.25 million option next year before hitting free agency. So he is cheaper and plays a more premium position while offering similar offensive production.

Great post. That is a very interesting comparison on a couple of levels. First, like you're saying, it's very useful for gauging Lucroy's value. They're almost the same age; Luc is a few months younger. They both have above-average defensive reputations, though I'd think Luc gains in that comparison even beyond playing a generically more important position because of his framing. Maybe you deduct a bit from Luc's column because he's coming off a down year when he was hurt. Overall it's close to an apples-to-apples comparison, and Luc looks like the somewhat shinier apple.

 

It's also an interesting comparison for putting the idea of trading Luc in perspective. I've struggled with this a lot; I haven't been a strong partisan either way. But if you ask yourself whether it made sense for the Reds to trade Frazier and you answer "yes," which I do, then it becomes harder (by no means impossible, but harder) to make a case for why the Brewers shouldn't trade Lucroy.

[reillymcshane]

Lucroy's value is much higher than Frazier's I would imagine.

 

Frazier 2014-15 264/322/479 wRC+ 118

Lucroy 2014-15 287/355/436 wRC+ 117

 

So you're looking at similar production at the plate, with Frazier offering more power while Lucroy offers more contact/OBP. Looking at other factors Frazier is due 7.5 million this year with one more year of arbitration in 2017 before hitting free agency. Meanwhile Lucroy is under contract for 4 million this year with a 5.25 million option next year before hitting free agency. So he is cheaper and plays a more premium position while offering similar offensive production.

Great post. That is a very interesting comparison on a couple of levels. First, like you're saying, it's very useful for gauging Lucroy's value. They're almost the same age; Luc is a few months younger. They both have above-average defensive reputations, though I'd think Luc gains in that comparison even beyond playing a generically more important position because of his framing. Maybe you deduct a bit from Luc's column because he's coming off a down year when he was hurt. Overall it's close to an apples-to-apples comparison, and Luc looks like the somewhat shinier apple.

 

It's also an interesting comparison for putting the idea of trading Luc in perspective. I've struggled with this a lot; I haven't been a strong partisan either way. But if you ask yourself whether it made sense for the Reds to trade Frazier and you answer "yes," which I do, then it becomes harder (by no means impossible, but harder) to make a case for why the Brewers shouldn't trade Lucroy.

I'm sure some may say that one thing Luc offers that a guy like Frazier doesn't is the quality veteran at a position that is critical to developing young pitching.

 

I, honestly, don't know how important having a veteran catcher mentoring these young pitchers is - it's one of those hard to quantify things in any sport. The catcher/pitcher relationship is pretty unique in baseball - and keeping Luc offers a comfort zone. But again, to what extent this helps a pitcher develop, I don't know.

[brewcrewdue80]

Yikes. This is very underwhelming. Jose Peraza must be a better Arcia in order to get excited on this return just a little bit. Scott Schlebler looks like a Khris Davis type of numbers in the OF, if he performs. He's a big guy I'd question his defense. Brandon Dixon is an older prospect for his numbers. a Repeat of A+ where his age was older than avg netted a .932OPS. The move to AA where he's 1year younger than avg. dropped his OPS to .647 in near twice as many games played. The overall combo line of 19HRs 26SBs for a 2nd baseman would hide some of a .700ish OPS displeasure.

 

Seems more like Peraza plus 2 AAAA players with Replacement level ML regular ceilings. The Dodgers essentially got a better trio of a package in my opinion than the Reds with just trading Peraza, Dixon, and Schlebler. And the White Sox get their Josh Donaldson for a bat. In front of Abreu? Good top of the order. I just question why a team like the Dodgers acquires Peraza and then trades him the very next offseason after he got a brief stint in the Major League club. It's like clubhouse virus? Or talent not what you believed? We'll find out in the future. I'm glad Brewers don't have to face Frazier because his best OPS within the division was vs the Brewers. Not looking like they'll be having to face that level of bat in any of the returned players.

[StearnsFTW]

Can't believe how cheaply the Sox acquired Frazier.

[LouisEly]

The Reds may be worse than Milwaukee next year.

The Brewers have much better pitching and, as of this moment, still have Braun, Lucroy, and Davis. The Reds will be worse than Milwaukee.

[jerichoholicninja]

The Reds may be worse than Milwaukee next year.

The Brewers have much better pitching and, as of this moment, still have Braun, Lucroy, and Davis. The Reds will be worse than Milwaukee.

 

As bad as everyone thinks (hopes, wishes, prays) the Brewers will be next year. The Reds will be worse. After they trade Phillips and Bruce they will have a lineup that is Votto and a guy who runs really fast. They've got to be a lock to lose 100 games, especially playing almost 1/3 of their games against the Cardinals, Cubs, and Pirates.

[clancyphile]

Great post. That is a very interesting comparison on a couple of levels. First, like you're saying, it's very useful for gauging Lucroy's value. They're almost the same age; Luc is a few months younger. They both have above-average defensive reputations, though I'd think Luc gains in that comparison even beyond playing a generically more important position because of his framing. Maybe you deduct a bit from Luc's column because he's coming off a down year when he was hurt. Overall it's close to an apples-to-apples comparison, and Luc looks like the somewhat shinier apple.

 

It's also an interesting comparison for putting the idea of trading Luc in perspective. I've struggled with this a lot; I haven't been a strong partisan either way. But if you ask yourself whether it made sense for the Reds to trade Frazier and you answer "yes," which I do, then it becomes harder (by no means impossible, but harder) to make a case for why the Brewers shouldn't trade Lucroy.

I'm sure some may say that one thing Luc offers that a guy like Frazier doesn't is the quality veteran at a position that is critical to developing young pitching.

 

I, honestly, don't know how important having a veteran catcher mentoring these young pitchers is - it's one of those hard to quantify things in any sport. The catcher/pitcher relationship is pretty unique in baseball - and keeping Luc offers a comfort zone. But again, to what extent this helps a pitcher develop, I don't know.

 

If this is the type of return we can expect from a Lucroy trade, then I say shell out whatever he wants for an extension.

 

With pitchers coming up (Lopez, Ortega, Hader, Houser, Davies, Suter, Wang), I think paying Lucroy big money will buy not just the wins from his bat, but wins from better-developed young pitchers.

[WV Brew]

You really have to wonder about Frazier outside of GAB:

 

Home: .278 avg, .550 slg, .883 ops

Away: .233 avg, .448 slg, .733 ops

 

Is he just a product of Cincinnati? Especially a factor in New Comiskey, which I don't think is a hitter's park.

[pacopete4]

GAB ranked the following in homers:

 

2012- #2, 2013- #2, 2014- #4, 2015- #7

______________________________________

 

US Cellular ranked the following in homers:

 

2012- #4, 2013- #7, 2014- #13, 2015- #8