Will Middlebrooks Signs, MLB Camp Invite (Latest at Post #95: assigned to AAA; could've opted out)

[1992casey]

Somehow I can't see sucking as badly as possible to be the GM's goal. If it is, he definitely wouldn't admit it.

[NievesNoNO]

I wouldn't want the goal to be sucking a badly as possible. If that's the end result then so be it I guess. It will also mean the current roster has generated zero value. The MLB draft is a bit of a crap shoot anyway, so picking first doesn't really guarantee the same thing it might in other sports.

[trwi7]

Somehow I can't see sucking as badly as possible to be the GM's goal. If it is, he definitely wouldn't admit it.

 

I think that was definitely Luhnow's goal when he went to Houston and Stearns came from Houston. They're obviously not going to come and say we hope to be the worst team in the league but every rebuilding team strives to make the major league team bad for at least a couple of years. Whether they want it to be the worst or not is up for debate but they definitely want the team to be bad.

[gregmag]

The goal is to build a sustainable contender. If you already have some of the pieces of that contender in place, that will happen sooner. You have to think not just about the pieces you don't have but the resources you do have.

 

If things break right, the Brewers by the end of next season could have a bunch of "next good Brewers team" guys ready to contribute at the MLB level: Nelson, Jungmann, Davies, Knebel, Santana, Arcia, Phillips, Lopez, Hader, maybe Reed, Barrios, Houser. I'm not saying all those guys will be ready, and I'm not advocating pushing them all to the majors. But they could all be ready and here. If they are, then we just may have to live with winning some games. It's kind of like the Bucks' situation last year. What matters is building a winner. Draft position matters, but so does developing your players. If the players develop quicker than expected, that's a good thing, even though it hurts your draft position.

[homer]

I think bad teams are simply a byproduct of a full rebuild. You sell off good players to get prospects.

[logan82]

I wouldn't want the goal to be sucking a badly as possible. If that's the end result then so be it I guess. It will also mean the current roster has generated zero value. The MLB draft is a bit of a crap shoot anyway, so picking first doesn't really guarantee the same thing it might in other sports.

It does help though. The gains in the draft pool are pretty significant every spot you move up from #5 to #1. A higher draft is no guarantee but it certainly helps. Even if the prospects don't pan out they can make good trade bait just based on draft position.

 

I think bad teams are simply a byproduct of a full rebuild. You sell off good players to get prospects.

They are also a product of not realizing your team is mediocre and reacting to late. We could have been building for a couple years already and had a contender by now or next season while we still had Lucroy. I hope they go into a deeper level of suckage next year just to come out stronger. I really don't care if we win 40 or 75 games. It's still losing and one helps more than the other.

[MrTPlush]

No team tries to lose games. We are getting worse because we are trading players to improve our talent for the future. We aren't going to dump Lucroy or Davis just to lose more games. A horrible record is just an indirect benefit of improving for the future. I'd much rather see Santana/Nelson/Peralta/etc. take steps forward and win 75 games than watch everyone flame out and lose 100.

 

We aren't going to trot a AAA roster out for a better draft pick and a #1 draft pick isn't a goal.

[danzig6767]

Somehow I can't see sucking as badly as possible to be the GM's goal. If it is, he definitely wouldn't admit it.

The goal is to play mostly young players and guys with potential upside which may or may not be realized.

 

Often those type of teams end up being bad, to what degree of bad will depend on just how well many of these younger players perform.

 

If say a number of these younger players perform better than expected right away and thus the team finishes with a win total in the 70's instead of the 60's, Stearns likely will be happy because those performances will come mostly from younger players. On the flip side, if the team struggles are deep to where they only win around say 60-65 games, it means a higher draft pick.

[Boomer5]

Houston Astros 2011 to 2013. That is the model for the Brewers the next three years. I dont know how Stearns could be any more obvious with the moves he has made so far. It is very obvious the goal is to have a 2-3 year run of Houston level draft positions to build for the future.

 

From a team that went 68-94, Stearns has traded away:

 

1. The 38 Save Closer

2. Our only regular system 1B and 3rd best OPS regular

3. Our only back up system 1B

 

For that, we have picked up a toolsy but questionable CF with 7 MLB ABs, Villar who is anyone's guess as to his value, and a bunch of guys that will have no impact on the MLB roster for years.

 

Obviously, in no way am I saying KRod and Lind are Fingers and Cooper in their prime but they were key positive performers from the 2015 team, such as it was. There is no replacement on the roster for their production. It was correct to trade them of course, But the July August moves had 2017 in mind. These trades do not.

 

It is conventional wisdom that Luc will be traded before the season. His return will be telling as to what year the team is expecting to arrive.

 

Guys like Middlebrooks and Cecchini and just cheap place holders with some residual prospect value to interest the casual fan.

[Boomer5]

I wouldn't want the goal to be sucking a badly as possible. If that's the end result then so be it I guess. It will also mean the current roster has generated zero value. The MLB draft is a bit of a crap shoot anyway, so picking first doesn't really guarantee the same thing it might in other sports.

It does help though. The gains in the draft pool are pretty significant every spot you move up from #5 to #1. A higher draft is no guarantee but it certainly helps. Even if the prospects don't pan out they can make good trade bait just based on draft position.

 

I think bad teams are simply a byproduct of a full rebuild. You sell off good players to get prospects.

They are also a product of not realizing your team is mediocre and reacting to late. We could have been building for a couple years already and had a contender by now or next season while we still had Lucroy. I hope they go into a deeper level of suckage next year just to come out stronger. I really don't care if we win 40 or 75 games. It's still losing and one helps more than the other.

 

Exactly. If you are a young GM who just came from a team that had the first pick in the draft year after year and successfully built itself to playoff level, do you want to be like that team or a team that wins 75 games and picks 9th every year?

 

The Brewers aren't going to sign Lackey, JHey, and Zobrist for almost $300M in an offseason. They are going to have to be the kind of team that has a constant supply of elite prospects. The only way to get there is through 2-3 massive drafts; and what gives you the ammunition to have those kind of drafts?

[JohnBriggs12]

Houston Astros 2011 to 2013. That is the model for the Brewers the next three years. I dont know how Stearns could be any more obvious with the moves he has made so far. It is very obvious the goal is to have a 2-3 year run of Houston level draft positions to build for the future.

 

From a team that went 68-94, Stearns has traded away:

 

1. The 38 Save Closer

2. Our only regular system 1B and 3rd best OPS regular

3. Our only back up system 1B

 

For that, we have picked up a toolsy but questionable CF with 7 MLB ABs, Villar who is anyone's guess as to his value, and a bunch of guys that will have no impact on the MLB roster for years.

 

Obviously, in no way am I saying KRod and Lind are Fingers and Cooper in their prime but they were key positive performers from the 2015 team, such as it was. There is no replacement on the roster for their production. It was correct to trade them of course, But the July August moves had 2017 in mind. These trades do not.

 

It is conventional wisdom that Luc will be traded before the season. His return will be telling as to what year the team is expecting to arrive.

 

Guys like Middlebrooks and Cecchini and just cheap place holders with some residual prospect value to interest the casual fan.

 

Agree almost 100%. Problem is the Houston model will never work in Milwaukee. Houston's a major market with big time local media revenue. Milwaukee isn't.

There best hope is a KC like build which will be tougher in a division with a Cub team that appears dangerous for next 5-7 years and a Cardinal team that are perennial contenders.

 

Also Middlebrooks and Cecchini are failed prospects who've had multiple chances. They have no residual prospect value other than a little name recognition having come up with Boston.

[bill hAll Star]

Even accepting the rebuilding mode that the Brewers are in, I find it disconcerting for a constant revolving door of players who after a while become nameless and faceless. Even losing teams have players that fans root for. Rogers was one of those guys especially having come through the system as a low round pick. Now we're deprived of seeing what he could do with four or five hundred AB's and from his standpoint though he's going to a winner, he may never get an opportunity to show what he's capable of with regular playing time.

 

I have replied a few times to your arguments in the rebuilding/tanking debates so I won't go too much in to that, but I do have to comment on this one. I don't think more than 10,000-20,000 fans even know who Jason Rogers is right now. Some might have been to a game last year that he played in and don't remember that he's on the team or anything about him.

 

When the Brewers are competitive again, this will be like being disappointed that the Packers didn't keep irrelevant NFL talent, yet moderately nice story Samkon Gado around into the very successful 2008-2012 range of years when he was in his late 20s.

 

I can guarantee you that there will be more heartwarming stories/players on the team when it is good again. Even if your worst fears are realized and the team rebuild is a colossal failure, there will be more try-hard players that came from nothing that get a spot on the roster for 2 years. This is the same thing about people holding on for dear life on sentimental cheering/leadership value of Lucroy. We'll have another fan favorite after Lucroy, I promise.

[Jenkins5]

Astros get too much hype over there high picks.....

2008 C Jason Castro (10th)

2009 SS Jiovanni Mier (21st)

2010 OF Delino DeShields Jr (8th)

2010 SP Mike Foltynewicz (18th)

2011 OF George Springer (11th)

2012 SS Carlos Correa (1st)

2013 SP Mark Appel (1st)

2014 SP Brady Aiken (1st)

 

Springer was 11th so you can't say tanking helped get him and Correa is the only other one on list to have any impact what so ever for the Astros.... Stock piling top picks hasn't been the way they have built system.

 

They built there system by stealing guys like Santana and Hader in rookie to low A ball and then having them develop into studs as well as hitting on 6th round picks like Brett Phillips.

[bill hAll Star]

If the Brewers can net arguably the best player in baseball when he hits his prime (and hopefully can keep him beyond 6 years) out of a window of 7 years of draft picks, and every other one fizzles out - I'll take it.

 

Your point, to me, does not diminish the high draft picks, rather it says that you need to use all avenues to rebuild (which is likely what you mean).

[Boomer5]

Astros get too much hype over there high picks.....

2008 C Jason Castro (10th)

2009 SS Jiovanni Mier (21st)

2010 OF Delino DeShields Jr (8th)

2010 SP Mike Foltynewicz (18th)

2011 OF George Springer (11th)

2012 SS Carlos Correa (1st)

2013 SP Mark Appel (1st)

2014 SP Brady Aiken (1st)

 

Springer was 11th so you can't say tanking helped get him and Correa is the only other one on list to have any impact what so ever for the Astros.... Stock piling top picks hasn't been the way they have built system.

 

They built there system by stealing guys like Santana and Hader in rookie to low A ball and then having them develop into studs as well as hitting on 6th round picks like Brett Phillips.

 

The first pick in the draft also comes with the biggest pool money. Its a huge advantage.

[Jenkins5]

Astros get too much hype over there high picks.....

2008 C Jason Castro (10th)

2009 SS Jiovanni Mier (21st)

2010 OF Delino DeShields Jr (8th)

2010 SP Mike Foltynewicz (18th)

2011 OF George Springer (11th)

2012 SS Carlos Correa (1st)

2013 SP Mark Appel (1st)

2014 SP Brady Aiken (1st)

 

Springer was 11th so you can't say tanking helped get him and Correa is the only other one on list to have any impact what so ever for the Astros.... Stock piling top picks hasn't been the way they have built system.

 

They built there system by stealing guys like Santana and Hader in rookie to low A ball and then having them develop into studs as well as hitting on 6th round picks like Brett Phillips.

 

The first pick in the draft also comes with the biggest pool money. Its a huge advantage.

 

That is true now, how many years as that been in place now through? 3-4 years?

[trwi7]

The first pick in the draft also comes with the biggest pool money. Its a huge advantage.

 

This. The first year it took place in 2012 the Astros drafted Correa first overall. The value of that slot was $7.2 million. They got Correa to sign for $4.8 million. That allowed them to double the recommended bonus for the #41 pick Lance McCullers as well as Rio Ruiz and Brett Phillips.

[jerichoholicninja]

The first pick in the draft also comes with the biggest pool money. Its a huge advantage.

 

This. The first year it took place in 2012 the Astros drafted Correa first overall. The value of that slot was $7.2 million. They got Correa to sign for $4.8 million. That allowed them to double the recommended bonus for the #41 pick Lance McCullers as well as Rio Ruiz and Brett Phillips.

 

I just don't understand how this works. Say they passed on McCullers, Ruiz, and Phillips. Then they all get drafted lower and at a lower slot. Do they just not sign and try again next year. It's not like free agency where you can just keep offering more money to a guy to play for your team.

[MrTPlush]

Agree almost 100%. Problem is the Houston model will never work in Milwaukee. Houston's a major market with big time local media revenue. Milwaukee isn't.

 

I highly disagree. The Houston Astros built themselves a contender and only have a $70mil payroll. What have they done that we can't? They have yet to spend like a big market.

 

Now the Cubs we can't do what they did up to last year. I believe they started last year with a $120mil payroll and realistically we couldn't do that before all our big boys hit arbitration. We wouldn't be able to support the huge payroll increases the Cubs will see.

[djoctagone]

Jon Heyman tweet --

 

will middlebrooks gets $1.2M if in majors on brewers deal. if not in majors 7/1, WM may be released for spot on other team.

tom haudricourt reports that middlebrooks could've opted out now, but chose to accept assignment to colorado springs. this varies from what heyman reported above.