Major League Rule 5 Selection: RHP Zack Jones (Twins); Latest: Jones returned to Twins 6/19

[1992casey]

They can definitely make a deal with the Twins to keep him, but I'm not totally clear on where waivers would fit in.

 

Based on Wikipedia's Rule 5 draft page, I think that the odds are that he'd have to clear waivers first.

 

If chosen in the Rule 5 draft, a player must be kept on the selecting team's 25-man major league roster for the entire season after the draft—he may not be optioned or designated to the minors. The selecting team may, at any time, waive the Rule 5 draftee. If a Rule 5 draftee clears waivers by not signing with a new MLB team, he must be offered back to the original team, effectively canceling the Rule 5 draft choice. Once a Rule 5 draftee spends an entire season on his new team's 25-man roster, his status reverts to normal and he may be optioned or designated for assignment.

[jerichoholicninja]

They can definitely make a deal with the Twins to keep him, but I'm not totally clear on where waivers would fit in.

 

Based on Wikipedia's Rule 5 draft page, I think that the odds are that he'd have to clear waivers first.

 

If chosen in the Rule 5 draft, a player must be kept on the selecting team's 25-man major league roster for the entire season after the draft—he may not be optioned or designated to the minors. The selecting team may, at any time, waive the Rule 5 draftee. If a Rule 5 draftee clears waivers by not signing with a new MLB team, he must be offered back to the original team, effectively canceling the Rule 5 draft choice. Once a Rule 5 draftee spends an entire season on his new team's 25-man roster, his status reverts to normal and he may be optioned or designated for assignment.

 

I feel like the player has to go unclaimed before a deal can be made with his old team, but I'm not 100% on that. I remember everyone and their mother had a different interpretation, but no definite answer, of that rule when we were dealing with Wang a couple years ago.

[Point Beer Is Best]

This part is always hazy (we went through the same thing with Wang), but I feel like the player has to be waived first, which gives any other MLB team the chance to assume the Rule 5 responsibilities of keeping him on their 25 man roster. The Brewers could only work out a trade with the original team if he passed through waivers and technically already reverts back to that team. Then he'd be free to be traded back to the selecting team (or any other for that matter) if they can agree to terms, and the selecting team could option the player to the minors. At least that's how I understand it.

[djoctagone]

zack jones was transferred to the 60-day disabled list today. jones needs to spend a minimum of 90 days on the brewers 25-man roster in 2016 in order for the brewers to keep him on their 40-man roster and be able to option him during 2017 spring training and beyond.

 

32 of those 90 days can be after 1 september, when rosters can expand to 40. thus, the brewers can stash jones on the dl until early july before having to make a decision about bringing him up to the club (and putting him back on the 40-man roster by activating him).

 

jones would also be allowed a 30-day minor league rehab assignment--which could start in early june if the club wanted to maximize his stay in the minors.

[djoctagone]

The Brewers could only work out a trade with the original team if he passed through waivers and technically already reverts back to that team. Then he'd be free to be traded back to the selecting team (or any other for that matter) if they can agree to terms, and the selecting team could option the player to the minors. At least that's how I understand it.

if the rule 5 player has already cleared waivers (removed from the 40-man) and is traded by the original team to any other team, it's a trade of a minor league player on a minor league contract. you can't option a player that's not on a 40-man roster. you can assign him to a specific minor league club, but it's not an optional assignment.

[CheezWizHed]

if the rule 5 player has already cleared waivers (removed from the 40-man) and is traded by the original team to any other team, it's a trade of a minor league player on a minor league contract. you can't option a player that's not on a 40-man roster. you can assign him to a specific minor league club, but it's not an optional assignment.

 

While true, Jones hasn't been waived. He is on the MLB DL list.

[djoctagone]

what i'm not clear on is what happens if jones is not able to complete 90 days of active roster time in 2016. it's my understanding that if the brewers want to keep him, he'd have to complete it in 2017 (while not on the disabled list).

 

does the service time accumulated count, or does the 90 days clock reset? for example, let's say he's not healthy enough to return until mid-august this year, and stays on the active roster until the end of the season, logging in roughly 45 of the required 90 days.

 

does he need to open the season (if healthy) on the active roster, get the remaining 45 days, and then be able to be optioned if the club wishes to? or does he have to log in at least 90 days on an active roster in a single season?

 

i seem to recall reading about a 2015 rule 5 draft pick who spent too long on the dl last year, and that he made the 2016 opening day roster because the club wanted to keep him. anyone know whom i'm talking about?

[Outlander]

He just needs 90 days active total. If he had say 60 days at the end of the 2016 season he would need to spend the first 30 days on the active roster, assuming he doesn't start the 2017 season on the DL. The Brewers could then option him during the 2017 season.

[Outlander]

FYI Daniel Winkler of the Braves was selected in 2014 and only accumulated about 30 days in 2015. He got hurt early this season so won't get to 90 days at the end of this year either.

[1992casey]

He just needs 90 days active total. If he had say 60 days at the end of the 2016 season he would need to spend the first 30 days on the active roster, assuming he doesn't start the 2017 season on the DL. The Brewers could then option him during the 2017 season.

^^ This has always been my understanding. The clock wouldn't reset. The player would simply have to complete his 90 days on the active roster.

[pogokat]

even if he misses the whole season, the brewers will activate him on september 1st when rosters expand

[dacbrewers]

FYI Daniel Winkler of the Braves was selected in 2014 and only accumulated about 30 days in 2015. He got hurt early this season so won't get to 90 days at the end of this year either.

 

Getting hurt...an excellent way to make a 500,000 dollars and accumulate MLB service time.

[Roderick]

FYI Daniel Winkler of the Braves was selected in 2014 and only accumulated about 30 days in 2015. He got hurt early this season so won't get to 90 days at the end of this year either.

 

Getting hurt...an excellent way to make a 500,000 dollars and accumulate MLB service time.

 

Plus then the big league club can only decrease your pay 20% the following year in the minors, right? Something like that for Wang I thought.

[1992casey]

Yeah, the 20% paycut rule applies to minor leaguers, so a full season in the big leagues becomes a gift that keeps on giving.

[StearnsFTW]

Yeah, the 20% paycut rule applies to minor leaguers, so a full season in the big leagues becomes a gift that keeps on giving.

 

I assume it would make you more likely to be released though.

[logan82]

One day in the majors and the minor league minimum is $82,700

[Roderick]

Yeah, the 20% paycut rule applies to minor leaguers, so a full season in the big leagues becomes a gift that keeps on giving.

 

I assume it would make you more likely to be released though.

 

Probably. In this case, it made it easier for the Brewers to slide Wang off the 40 man roster with less risk of losing him, as he cost ~$300K versus the usual cheap minor leaguer.

 

Edit - here is an article that mentions his pay for 2015.

 

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/130977224/brewers-claim-matt-dominguez-off-waivers

[1992casey]

And where the gift keeps on giving is that the following year, a $400,000 salary becomes a $320,000. After that, the $320,000 would become $256,000.

[DHonks]

not true about the 20% rule. His Major league salary will likely be the league minimum in 2017 (likely around $512,000), however, his contract will include a lower salary for minor leagues. I don't know what that is, but guys on a 40-man roster make significantly more than minor leaguers not on a 40-man

[1992casey]

We've had the number wrong, but a pay cut rule still applies when a player signs a split contract. He's guaranteed 60% of his previous year's salary (or a maximum cut of 40%).

 

According to Cots:

 

For split contracts (paying a player one rate when he is in the Major Leagues and a lesser rate when he is in the minors), the maximum cut rule is 60% of the player’s salary from the previous season.

Inferring a little, if you have a player who's earned $50,000 in the minors and $250,000 in the majors, he's going to need to be paid at least $180,000 the following year.

 

For a first year AAA player who gets his first callup in September, the impact is less. Using rough figures, which may be derived form numbers previous to this year, a player might earn $10,750 in the minors and $84,500 in the majors. In a case like that, the $82,700 minimum that logan82 mentions will probably kick in since it's greater than 60% of $95,250.

[djoctagone]

zack jones was transferred to the 60-day disabled list today. jones needs to spend a minimum of 90 days on the brewers 25-man roster in 2016 in order for the brewers to keep him on their 40-man roster and be able to option him during 2017 spring training and beyond.

 

32 of those 90 days can be after 1 september, when rosters can expand to 40. thus, the brewers can stash jones on the dl until early july before having to make a decision about bringing him up to the club (and putting him back on the 40-man roster by activating him).

 

jones would also be allowed a 30-day minor league rehab assignment--which could start in early june if the club wanted to maximize his stay in the minors.

and early june it is. jones starts a rehab assignment at class a brevard county today.

[djoctagone]

I guess maybe they will allow us to keep Jones.

 

If the Brewers don't put him on the 25 man roster, and offer him back, can't the Twins stash him in AAA if they have the 40 man roster spot?

if the brewers don't keep jones on their 25-man roster once he's eligible to come off the disabled list, their first step will be removing him from the 40-man roster. thus, if he's offered back to the twins, he'll be a minor league player on a minor league contract, and the twins can assign him to any minor league club they choose.

[trwi7]

He has been returned to the Twins and assigned to AA Chattanooga.

 

[torts]

He gets full benefits and a pension for life for appearing in 1mlb game. That's maybe the biggest perk to milb players

[Outlander]

He didn't even do that but being on the MLB disabled list gets him the same benefits I believe. At the very least he had MLB pay and service time. Also can declare free agency if DFA again or if selected in the rule 5 draft again and doesn't stick. In theory the Brewers could select him in the rule 5 draft again and then release him in spring training and tell him they will add him to the 40 man roster if he resigns with them.