Lind to Mariners for 3 lower level RHP prospects (Daniel Missaki, Carlos Herrera, Freddy Peralta)

[RobertR]

FWIW I reject the "our lower levels are weak therefore we needed lower level guys". That's justification for reaching. Either that was the best package out there, however you want to measure it, or it wasn't.

 

Myself, I think short season teenagers are incredibly risky.

[bill hAll Star]

This team looked close to being a decent team by 2017, but that is clearly going to be pushed back towards 2020 or so based on the caliber and age of prospects we are accepting in trades.

 

Explain how the trades for Villar, Flores, Cecchini, and Pina are playing for 2020.

 

Come on. Those are just cheap guys to fill stop gap roles. Maybe I will buy Villar has some upside, but he is very much in the flyer category. Flores and Pina are role players at best. Cecchini was a cash deal, so you know what Boston thought of him. These are cheaper versions of Kotsay types with the hopes that we find a change of scenery success story. These are guys you'd see on an expansion team, so Im surprised anyone would classify them as legitimate assets.

 

No way any move Stearns has made this offseason so far making the MLB roster better. Im not saying that is a bad thing because the rebuild was necessary. Im just saying our 2017 dreams - even if they were unrealistic - have pretty much died this offseason.

 

I will be very interested to see what he brings back with Lucroy. So far he looks like a very young, inexperienced GM. Lucroy is a very valuable asset so the "Lind is worthless" mentality wont be valid in that trade.

 

Its not unreasonable to think we could have netted a Brandon Moss or Parra type return in a Lind trade.

 

Why would we want an Adam Lind-type back in an Adam Lind trade?

 

In terms of your comments on Cecchini, Villar, etc. - these are the only type of players you want to add outside of a Pedro Alvarez free agency risk or two. You don't want to overpay in-demand vets right now, you don't want to play your good, young players too early before they're ready and eat their service time up.

 

Why not currently buy low on players that once had a bit of potential instead of filling your roster with Casey McGehee types while you tank/rebuild? It's possible that Cecchini is a nice, cheap backup 3B/1B in 2019. You could do worse than that.

 

Look at the Cubs and Astros' rosters during their rebuild. The Cubs brought in once highly-thought-of Luis Valbuena and flipped him for value down the road. The Astros tried to buy low on Jordan Schafer for awhile in the Bourn trade, tried to buy low on Bedard, Pena, etc. (less examples in the Astros' case because they went nuclear on their roster).

[markedman5]

I think it's fair to say that Cliff didn't like the Lind deal.......http://www.si.com/mlb/2016/01/13/winter-report-card-milwaukee-brewers?xid=si_social

[pacopete4]

I think it's fair to say that Cliff didn't like the Lind deal.......http://www.si.com/mlb/2016/01/13/winter-report-card-milwaukee-brewers?xid=si_social

 

 

I can’t muster even that limited enthusiasm for the three pitchers acquired for Lind, though.

 

One year of Lind brought back three soft-tossing, undersized, righthanded teenaged pitchers.

 

 

Yikes. Not saying he'll be right but those are very strong opinions.

[AKCheesehead]

I doubt Cliff knows much more than the rest of us about these 3 prospects.

[Jenkins5]

I doubt Cliff knows much more than the rest of us about these 3 prospects.

 

Agreed, he's more of a writer than a scout. Doubt he knows anything at all about the 3 guys.

 

We got one Small crafty Davies type in Missaki

 

Another undersized guy in Peralta but never heard a guy who works 92-95 as a soft tosser.....

 

Then a pretty projectable sized pitcher in Herrera who is 17 sitting 88-90.....could be 95+ in 3 years. To label a projectable 17 year old as a soft tosser is pretty uneducated fan banter .....kid is old enough to be a senior in high school.

[DuWayne Steurer]

People don't like the Lind trade because none of those kids are projectable. I get that, that's fair. If even one of those guys makes it to the bigs and is an even serviceable reliever for 3-4 years, that is a win for the Brewers. One year of Lind in a non-compete year for us just wasn't going to matter that much. Could they have gotten more? We don't know what was being offered besides this trio.

 

Anyways, that aside, Cliff gave us a B- for the offseason, and I think that's fair as well. There's a lot of moving parts here right now, and none of the incoming pieces are superstars, but most of them should be serviceable until the next wave appears, and some of them may even be pieces that stick around.

[QuevedosTongue]

Does anybody have any info on when Missaki is due back from the DL? I know injuries don't work the same from player to player, but it's been basically 14 months since he first went on the DL and I would think he'd be back throwing by now.

[IntentionalHBP]

Freddy Peralta has been selected to his first all star game

[rickh150]

Congrats, Freddy….. the lottery pick pays off.

[MVP2110]

Some of the replies in this thread are great lol.

[Eye Black]

Reading this thread now given the benefit of hindsight is a truly wild ride.

 

 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The fixation on pitcher height was dumb then and it's dumb now.

[Eye Black]

For anyone with a subscription to The Athletic (or those considering one) I think this is a MUST read:

 

How Freddy Peralta became a major organizational win for the Brewers

 

The article outlines how Matt Kleine, now the Brewers’ vice president of baseball operations, saw the potential in Freddy Peralta on the Arizona backfields and had pushed for him to be acquired from the Mariners as far back as 2013. He kept pestering front office members via email keeping them updated on Peralta’s progress in the subsequent years leading up to this trade.

[pacopete4]

That’s crazy. That’s like something out of a movie scene. So glad we’ve had such awesome talents working in our front office. These last few years have been so enjoyable because of it.

[MrTPlush]

Just because Peralta is succeeding as a short starter or the other guys flamed out doesn’t change the disadvantage a guy like Peralta has trying to start. Life is much easier and success is much more common if you are 6’1” or taller…at least for a starter.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

It was fun to go back through this thread. Peralta was not considered the headliner, and if anything was the least known player. He threw the hardest but was too short. Can't possibly be a starter if he is too short, right.

[Lathund]

The narrative on height has also shifted as pitch usage has. When pounding the bottom of the zone with sinkers, being a tall guy with a high release point and a short stride is a plus, as it creates a steeper downward angle as the pitch crosses the plate, which is what you want with a sinker. But when pitching with 4-seamers up in the zone, being short, with a low release point and a long stride (i.e gets further down the mound, and thus even lower release point) are advantageous because of the more horizontal approach angle it creates.

 

Some of the replies in this thread are great lol.

 

It's always the case with any signings or trade that's not for a "big name". The Wade Miley thread was one of the most negative I have ever seen, there were even posters happy about his ST injury since it might mean he wouldn't be on the roster. Same with many others. And not to mention how we'd have traded Woody and Peralta already for Quintana or Alex Cobb or whoever by now. Basically it's a good thing that fans don't have a say in how a club is run.

[LouisEly]

The fun thing to look back on is that Lind was acquired for Marco Estrada, who was a waiver claim in 2010.

 

In essence, a waiver claim resulted in an All-Star starting pitcher.

[wildcat83]

I want upside. If those guys are at A ball or Rookie league, then great. I know everyone wants impact guys now, but this is one year of Adam Lind - not Carlos Gomez.

 

Stock the system. Steady flow of talent. That's how this franchise is going to win in the future. I love the change in attitude. I'm tired of 'major league ready' players who are marginal talents. Give me guys who can amount to something special. I'll wait the extra few years and take the risk that one of them reaches their potential.

 

You should be in the BF HOF for this take!

 

Read the first 5 pages of this, some great reactions.

[homer]

I think Freddy Peralta is considered the best of the three to be honest followed by Herrera then Missaki.

 

You were correct

[adambr2]

I was relieved to find my take on this trade on Page 9 was not terrible.

 

As fun as it is to go back and look at the bad takes, let's be honest, we've all been there. None of us have a crystal ball and everyone feels one way or another about something in that moment, just like when your guy does or doesn't get drafted on draft day.

 

So bearing that in mind, I'd like to point out that there were also numerous posters that nailed it. Not surprising that Reilly has some takes that were dead on. Homer has a slam dunk take (post 235) worth a re-read -- talks about how we can't afford ace pitching on the open market so we need to come up with ways of finding our own and this is one method.

 

Now flash forward to almost 6 years later, not only is said ace a huge part of our 5 game lead in the division, but he's also been extended on a reasonable contract through the 2026 season.

[MrTPlush]

I think Freddy Peralta is considered the best of the three to be honest followed by Herrera then Missaki.

 

You were correct

 

YES!!

 

Just don't go digging up my thoughts on signing Lance Lynn prior to 2018...it won't be as good.

[dlk9s]

A lot of people were quite upset about getting three young pitchers for...[checks notes]...Adam Lind.

[MrTPlush]

A lot of people were quite upset about getting three young pitchers for...[checks notes]...Adam Lind.

 

A guy we traded Marco Estrada to get. The year prior to the trade Estrada had an ERA of 5 as a starter before getting sent to the bullpen. Then after acquiring Lind he did worse than he did the few years before with Toronto.

 

He wasn't valuable when we got him, got worse/older/less controllable....and then we didn't trade him for Top 100 prospects. That never seemed too shocking to me.