Zack Greinke to Diamondbacks

[MrTPlush]

My only one issue with that graph is the fact I don't really care about the average players extending their prime, it is all those older elite players. There are some interesting cases like:

 

Barry Bonds: Won 4 straight MVP awards in his late 30s...come on we all know his stats wouldn't even be close to this without some good stuff going into his body. Guy should have been declining and wasn't.

 

Roger Clemens: A Cy Young award and a sub 2 era season after turning 40...alrighty then.

 

Lets also not forget two players doing very well despite ridiculous age in today's game(Ortiz/Colon) have both been well connected to PEDs in the past.

 

Now I will admit there are many connected to steroids that did decline and didn't dominate past the ripe old age of 40. However, does that mean we should ignore the ones that did? Isn't possible for those players the steroids did extend their careers? I think it is more than possible. I have yet to watch a player not connected to steroids dominate at nearly 40 or past it.

[3and2Fastball]

I have yet to watch a player not connected to steroids dominate at nearly 40 or past it.

 

Stan Musial. Ted Williams. Randy Johnson. Mariano Rivera. Hank Aaron hit 40 HR's w/ a .402 OBP at age 39. However, yes, your point is well made, in general. There have been exceptions

[CheezWizHed]

One problem with that graph is that they assume no PEDs up to 2005. So the heavy PEDs years were split in two, thus watering down the effect. It would be better if they compared 1985-1995 to 2000-2010 to see a difference.

 

Secondly, baseball naturally is going to "filter" out the worst players and keep the production as high as possible. Thus, there are fewer 35+ year old players now than in the height of the PEDs years. There are less because off PEDs, their production is unbearable. When they were on PEDs they were lifted up to passable production. As I posted in another forum before:

 

Just for kicks, I went out to baseball reference and searched for number of players in the MLB that were 35 or older on June 30th (not sure why they use that date for the criteria).

2000: 117

2001: 127

2002: 118

2003: 134

2004: 140

2005: 149 (peak)

2006: 140

2007: 138

2008: 126

2009: 119

2010: 104

2011: 109

2012: 107

2013: 104

2014: 88

2015: 73 - Lowest in 15 years and less than half of the peak.

 

If this was a scientific study, you would need two groups of players all playing until they were 40. One with and one without PEDs to see the significant difference. Allowing one group of players to stop playing because the got so bad will skew the numbers in the positive direction.

[bill hAll Star]

I have yet to watch a player not connected to steroids dominate at nearly 40 or past it.

 

Stan Musial. Ted Williams. Randy Johnson. Mariano Rivera. Hank Aaron hit 40 HR's w/ a .402 OBP at age 39. However, yes, your point is well made, in general. There have been exceptions

 

I know that they may not be the massive muscle inducing ones that Bonds and the like did, and that we're opening up an argument on here - but greenies and maybe other PEDs were out there when Hank played.

[3and2Fastball]

If you go to any MLB fantasy camps or get a chance to talk to any former MLB players when they feel comfortable speaking "off the record" they will tell you that most of MLB was on PED's as far back as the early 80's

 

I remember plenty of high school players on PED's in the early 80's. To think that pro athletes weren't doing them back then is, I think, fairly naive.

[jhart05]

It's utterly ridiculous that MLB does absolutely nothing to limit these salaries. It's just gotten to the point of complete and utter ridiculousness.

 

MLB players make substantially more than all the other major sports (who also make way too much money). I simply don't get it and as I've said before, with each passing season I get closer and closer to not following any more until something changes - which to me seems like will likely never happen.

 

Completely agree. They are all overpaid, from the very top of the list all the way down to the very bottom. It's gotten completely out of hand. I'm a bit ahead of you thou. Just wish I would have woken up sooner.

 

I started not caring about MLB the year Prince left and Pujols signed that ridiculous contract. Haven't watched a Brewer game since, that I didn't get free tickets to attend. (I only come to this MB for entertainment. Since It's one of the few that I can see at work over my lunch hour.)

 

NBA lost me long before that.

 

I watch Packer games but not with anything close to the enthusiasm that I did 15 or 20 years ago. Stopped playing fantasy football a long time ago, so I don't feel I "have to watch" any of the other games. Usually DVR the Packer game, then watch most of it on FF. They win, good for them. They lose, so what. Either way, doesn't change my life.

 

By the way, if you still need a baseball fix, try the Lakeshore Chinooks. Tickets are less than $10.

[1992casey]

Is there a mechanism to increase the luxury tax as revenues go higher? I'm not familiar with how it's structured.

 

Less PEDs have helped the competitive balance with the productive window post-control shrinking. If I'm the Brewers I keep pressing for stricter drug testing.

 

The luxury tax is agreed upon in each CBA. Including next year it has only changed once in the past 7 years by $10mil. They have had more of a rolling increase back in the early 2000s so it was increasing every year, but they have not gone with that recently. Basically the owners and MLBPA can decide to make it whatever they want.With all these massive gains in revenue lately the next negotiation should be pretty interesting. The smaller it is the better for the Brewers.

Another aspect of the luxury tax is that the monies go into a fund to which all teams would otherwise contribute equally. Once you slice up the penalty money, there isn't a huge advantage to the teams not paying the tax. But it's potentially a big thing to the teams that pay.

[3and2Fastball]

I know that they may not be the massive muscle inducing ones that Bonds and the like did, and that we're opening up an argument on here - but greenies and maybe other PEDs were out there when Hank played.

 

That is exactly true. You can find quotes from Aaron & Mays saying that they were on "greenies" for most of their career. They don't talk about it quite as much lately. The word "Greenie" sounds so innocent, like they were taking caffeine pills. The fact is they played most of their careers on amphetamines, trucker speed, whatever you want to call it

[CheezWizHed]

I could be wrong, but I've been under the assumption that the PEDs of the 2000+ era was different than the drug use of prior. This was more steroid based, which promoted muscle growth and quick healing effects.

 

The prior drugs (cocaine, amphetamines, etc..) would give the energy for the game, but if you were injured (or weak), those really didn't help anything.

 

The steroid based PEDs is more of the question when we are talking about maintaining viability for longer in the career.

[jerichoholicninja]

It's utterly ridiculous that MLB does absolutely nothing to limit these salaries. It's just gotten to the point of complete and utter ridiculousness.

 

MLB players make substantially more than all the other major sports (who also make way too much money). I simply don't get it and as I've said before, with each passing season I get closer and closer to not following any more until something changes - which to me seems like will likely never happen.

 

Completely agree. They are all overpaid, from the very top of the list all the way down to the very bottom. It's gotten completely out of hand. I'm a bit ahead of you thou. Just wish I would have woken up sooner.

 

I started not caring about MLB the year Prince left and Pujols signed that ridiculous contract. Haven't watched a Brewer game since, that I didn't get free tickets to attend. (I only come to this MB for entertainment. Since It's one of the few that I can see at work over my lunch hour.)

 

NBA lost me long before that.

 

I watch Packer games but not with anything close to the enthusiasm that I did 15 or 20 years ago. Stopped playing fantasy football a long time ago, so I don't feel I "have to watch" any of the other games. Usually DVR the Packer game, then watch most of it on FF. They win, good for them. They lose, so what. Either way, doesn't change my life.

 

By the way, if you still need a baseball fix, try the Lakeshore Chinooks. Tickets are less than $10.

 

I just can't understand this thinking at all. These guys "make too much money" so you won't watch them play? I assume you don't watch any TV shows or movies, nor listen to music or read books either.

[MrTPlush]

Overpaid? Average MLB team revenue is approx. $300mil...most teams payroll is under half of that. If anything these players are underpaid.

 

The players are worth every penny because they are being offered it and the teams are still profitable(by massive margins) after handing out the contracts.

 

Sorry but they aren't overpaid.

[jerichoholicninja]

Overpaid? Average MLB team revenue is approx. $300mil...most teams payroll is under half of that. If anything these players are underpaid.

 

The players are worth every penny because they are being offered it and the teams are still profitable(by massive margins) after handing out the contracts.

 

Sorry but they aren't overpaid.

 

Exactly. I hate when people say that pro athletes are overpaid. If you were one of the less than .1% of the population that could do a job for a company that makes hundreds of millions of dollars a year directly because of what you do, you would want to be paid accordingly.

[logan82]

Overpaid? Average MLB team revenue is approx. $300mil...most teams payroll is under half of that. If anything these players are underpaid.

 

The players are worth every penny because they are being offered it and the teams are still profitable(by massive margins) after handing out the contracts.

 

Sorry but they aren't overpaid.

 

Exactly. I hate when people say that pro athletes are overpaid. If you were one of the less than .1% of the population that could do a job for a company that makes hundreds of millions of dollars a year directly because of what you do, you would want to be paid accordingly.

Not sure what percentage it is but at one point MLB salaries were only half of the cost of running a franchise. I think it was some point early in the 2000's. There are a lot of employees beyond just the MLB players connected to a franchise.

[MrTPlush]

Overpaid? Average MLB team revenue is approx. $300mil...most teams payroll is under half of that. If anything these players are underpaid.

 

The players are worth every penny because they are being offered it and the teams are still profitable(by massive margins) after handing out the contracts.

 

Sorry but they aren't overpaid.

 

Exactly. I hate when people say that pro athletes are overpaid. If you were one of the less than .1% of the population that could do a job for a company that makes hundreds of millions of dollars a year directly because of what you do, you would want to be paid accordingly.

Not sure what percentage it is but at one point MLB salaries were only half of the cost of running a franchise. I think it was some point early in the 2000's. There are a lot of employees beyond just the MLB players connected to a franchise.

 

That time would still be now. The Brewers have slightly more than $200mil in yearly revenue and their payroll in a big year is about $100mil. So it is still 50% or below for most every team.

[CheezWizHed]

Of course, its not the other employees that are making up most of that other 50%. Its facilities, equipment, transportation, food, hotels, etc..

[Bombers]

That time would still be now. The Brewers have slightly more than $200mil in yearly revenue and their payroll in a big year is about $100mil. So it is still 50% or below for most every team.

Revenue does not = net income. It isn't like the Brewers can match their payroll to their revenue total. As others have said, then they wouldn't have money to pay for anything. The Milwaukee Brewers financial statements are not made public thus we do not know their net income and thus do not know their position in being able to pay their players more. The only Financials made available are the Green Bay Packers and that is a different sport and not close to comparable.

[djoctagone]

Of course, its [sic] not the other employees that are making up most of that other 50%. Its [sic] facilities, equipment, transportation, food, hotels, etc..

don't forget oil changes on damian miller's snowmobile(s).