Luis Sardinas to Mariners for OF Ramon Flores

[danzig6767]

Good I didn't like Sardinas at all. There was absolutely nothing special about him. Now we have two players that are extremely versatile.

 

These could be two huge players on our bench when we are competing again. They are so versatile we can afford to take on a good hitting player for our bench without that players lack of versatility killing us(think Rickie Weeks). By 2020 both will be very experienced.

 

Yea, Flores may only be a 4th OF type, but i wasn't a fan of Sardinas either. A slap hitter with solid, but not great defense. He was never going to be the starting SS here and looks like he wasn't valued highly elsewhere.

[TURBO]

These last two trades are pointless to me. I'd rather have Stearns spending time working on trades that will actually make a difference for this franchise. Make these kinds of moves after you have Lind, Lucroy and anyone else sorted out.

 

Agreed.

 

So we in essence, traded Gallardo for Flores?

 

I do not understand why we would need another OFer to crowd our already over-populated OF depth.

 

I don't like either of the last two trades, and I really want Stearns to be successful in Milwaukee.

 

Just seem pointless to me...

[MNBrew]

These last two trades are pointless to me. I'd rather have Stearns spending time working on trades that will actually make a difference for this franchise. Make these kinds of moves after you have Lind, Lucroy and anyone else sorted out.

 

Agreed.

 

So we in essence, traded Gallardo for Flores?

 

I do not understand why we would need another OFer to crowd our already over-populated OF depth.

 

I don't like either of the last two trades, and I really want Stearns to be successful in Milwaukee.

 

Just seem pointless to me...

We really know nothing about Daniel Fields (who at the moment I wouldn't mind seeing DFA'd if anything better comes along) and beyond Shane Peterson (who I like and want to keep and definitely is more of an asset than Ben Guez), who else was going to be one of the two backup OFs on the 25-man roster? I don't mean later in 2016, but on Opening Day. I don't think anyone who's been advocating an improved approach to player development should be wanting Philips, Reed, etc. to be sitting on the MLB bench in the Logan Schafer role (5th OF & PH). Ramon Flores apparently has proven enough in the minors that he can hit, which I'd think is an important skill.

 

I think I like the Villar deal, especially if it means Hernan Perez has less of a chance of making the team at this point -- better defense and distinct speed.

[SRB]

I'm fine with Stearns getting rid of Melvin's guys for players Stearns likes better, but this one seems a little confusing. Sardinas is a solid prospect.

[pogokat]

These last two trades are pointless to me. I'd rather have Stearns spending time working on trades that will actually make a difference for this franchise. Make these kinds of moves after you have Lind, Lucroy and anyone else sorted out.

 

Agreed.

 

So we in essence, traded Gallardo for Flores?

 

 

And Corey Knebel, who looked great at times last season, and Marcos Diplan, who is one of our best pitching prospects.

[clancyphile]

I'm fine with Stearns getting rid of Melvin's guys for players Stearns likes better, but this one seems a little confusing. Sardinas is a solid prospect.

 

A .657 OPS at Colorado Springs does not strike me as the number a "solid" prospect would put up.

 

Flores could be a very useful bench bat. He and Peterson have all three outfield positions and first base covered. I'm thinking a young Gerardo Parra. Not a bad asset at all. Heck, Flores even had very brief stints at shortstop and third base (granted in the low minors, but if there was a time desperate enough to put him at third or short, nice to know he'd be a desperate measure option).

[QuevedosTongue]

I think it's pretty clear that Stearns is making these moves looking at positional flexibility, not necessarily talent upgrades. These minor deals are likely being done to cover the Brewers at multiple positions. With that done, there is less pressure to get "major league ready" talent when the bigger fish (Lind, Segura, etc.) are dealt. Guys like Scooter or Khris Davis have no value if they don't hit, but a guy like Villar will always have utility value to a team. I'm pretty sure none of the players acquired recently are expected to provide more than average production over their time in Milwaukee. If they give more that's great, but they are there to be placeholders. If any of them surprise and give more than that it will just be a bonus.

[homer]

The other thing is that these guys are still "youngish" in age. Not sure on how much control Brewers have over them but if the rebuild takes three seasons (not unreasonable at all given the depth in the minors) and these guys reach close to their ceilings then you have very solid contributors on a contending team. Maybe that's a stretch but could factor in to Stearns' decision making.

[joepepsi]

This is my favorite trade so far. Flores has hit a bit in the minors with solid obp. It's looking more plausible to me that Braun will be traded. Davis, Santana, Flores, Phillips possible OF'ers in 2016. It's like he's back filling the roster so when he trades Braun, or Segura, he doesn't have to scramble for some retread to take their place.

 

 

Or maybe we've talked Braun into taking a shot at first base?

 

Sorry, I don't think trading for Flores has anything to do with Braun. It's not like they traded for Bautista and are saying "Well, I guess we need to trade or move Braun."

 

Well, I guess I didn't explain myself well. Didn't mean to imply Flores was as good as Braun. But Flores still has rookie status, is only 24 on opening day, and has a AAA career line of 282/376/449 in 563 ABs. He's potentially more than a 4th OF'er, and should Braun be traded this winter, could fill in nicely as an everyday player for a rebuilding team.

[Jenkins5]

Over the next three- four years, who overs more to this club?

Sardinas or Villar?

Flores or Sneed?

 

Villar has a better bat, a little more pop, and greater ability to walk with just as good defense as Sardinas ( even though Sardinas is still younger) Villar can play SS,3B, 2B, OF as a super utility Herrera type.

 

Flores can play play all OF spots & 1b. Hits for high average and gets on base a lot. Profiles more as a Parra or Aoki type ceiling. Is said to be a pretty good defensive player. .....Sneed wouldn't be in bigs until 2018 at least and would need to climb over a lot of guys to get here

 

I can't stand all the negitive/pointless comments. We added 2 super utility guys at the cost of very little who are currently upgrades. The offer solid bats, good defense, and tons of flexibility.

 

Why is it that so many fans think if you are going to make a move it needs to be blockbuster, huge impact, game changing type? There are 25 players on the roster and you are only as good as you bench. Each player is important and obviously Stearns & his staff see as guys they they want to construct the team with.

 

Can anyone please tell what returns they really wanted out of Sardinas and Sneed? To just say it's pointless to bring in bench flexibility is not even a decent answer. Depth is important.

 

As many people say, bigger trades take more time than these straight up deals.

[colbyjack]

All good points YoungGeezy1, well said, as I was thinking the same thing reading through the posts this morning. The Brewers bench has been pretty frustrating in recent years and I like these two trades just for the simple fact that the Brewers are obviously placing an emphasis on the team's entire roster from top to bottom. Like you said, not every acquisition is going to be an impact blockbuster but that doesn't mean they're not important.

[SRB]

I'm fine with Stearns getting rid of Melvin's guys for players Stearns likes better, but this one seems a little confusing. Sardinas is a solid prospect.

 

A .657 OPS at Colorado Springs does not strike me as the number a "solid" prospect would put up.

 

Flores could be a very useful bench bat. He and Peterson have all three outfield positions and first base covered. I'm thinking a young Gerardo Parra. Not a bad asset at all. Heck, Flores even had very brief stints at shortstop and third base (granted in the low minors, but if there was a time desperate enough to put him at third or short, nice to know he'd be a desperate measure option).

 

Yes, he had a bad season as a 22-year-old. That entirely negates his former top-100-prospect status, the fact that he was largely the centerpiece of the Gallardo trade, and that he is a good defensive SS/2B.

 

Glad we have a bench corner OF now, just what we needed!

[Thurston Fluff]

I'm fine with Stearns getting rid of Melvin's guys for players Stearns likes better, but this one seems a little confusing. Sardinas is a solid prospect.

 

A .657 OPS at Colorado Springs does not strike me as the number a "solid" prospect would put up.

 

Flores could be a very useful bench bat. He and Peterson have all three outfield positions and first base covered. I'm thinking a young Gerardo Parra. Not a bad asset at all. Heck, Flores even had very brief stints at shortstop and third base (granted in the low minors, but if there was a time desperate enough to put him at third or short, nice to know he'd be a desperate measure option).

 

Yes, he had a bad season as a 22-year-old. That entirely negates his former top-100-prospect status, the fact that he was largely the centerpiece of the Gallardo trade, and that he is a good defensive SS/2B.

 

Glad we have a bench corner OF now, just what we needed!

 

At one time Mike Olt was a top 50 prospect as well. Young prospects are graded as much on potential as they are production. Yet the older they get the more their production matters. When production doesn't catch up to the potential as they get older their status changes. His status always relied on the hope his offense would improve. But so far it hasn't. My guess is he isn't considered a top 100 prospect anymore.

[superfly]

Stearns is buying low on more upside. EX is Villar who seemed to be a poor clubhouse presence, but if he puts it all together will be a servicable player in our lineup in a year or two.

[adambr2]

Despite cracking the top 100 at one time, Sardinas always projected a lot more like Cesar Izturis than any good MLB shortstop.

 

I wasn't crazy about it when we acquired him, and I'm not sorry to see him go.

[Jenkins5]

Despite cracking the top 100 at one time, Sardinas always projected a lot more like Cesar Izturis than any good MLB shortstop.

 

I wasn't crazy about it when we acquired him, and I'm not sorry to see him go.

 

This. If he could at least walk to go with the slap hit approach and defense I would have liked him more. The Gallardo trade is centered around Dominican bonus baby Marcos Diplan working out. Sardinas didn't make much sense to begin with.

[brewcrewdue80]

I think the realization was setting in that Sardinas was never going to be anything more than a toothpick and only of 2b/SS position. The guy has awful OB skills and the players are just better in Villar/Arcia at the only positions Sardinas was going to play. Expendable. I'm not upset because:

 

Ramon Flores. LHB. Has OB skills, and 1b experience. He doesn't have power they say...and this Sardinas guy? We traded a 2b/SS for a OF utility, 1b ability, and OB skills.

 

Sardinas' top 100 prospect ranking is obviously banked on what a body he could have achieved and that in turn projects far higher than the body he possesses today. He may get it one day or never though. But he's obviously a long, long road away after all this time to get there.

[pacopete4]

Sardinas is a guy that needs PEDs. It was a good trade. It'll be shown over time.

[reillymcshane]

All good points YoungGeezy1, well said, as I was thinking the same thing reading through the posts this morning. The Brewers bench has been pretty frustrating in recent years and I like these two trades just for the simple fact that the Brewers are obviously placing an emphasis on the team's entire roster from top to bottom. Like you said, not every acquisition is going to be an impact blockbuster but that doesn't mean they're not important.

The Brewers have been really screwed due to poor depth over the last few years - so the idea of creating a deep roster (and minor league system) is really important.

 

I think Fangraphs did a thing that from showed 20% of Milwaukee's at bats went to replacement level players (or worse) in 2012-14. Guys like Yuni, Gonzalez, etc. We'd get killed when a starter went down (or did poorly). Or we'd just do bad because we couldn't afford to add a decent starter (think Overbay/Reynolds). The big problem was we couldn't develop many young players - back up or starter - forcing us to spend big money on mediocre replacments. This meant we ignored back ups and depth because we had no money alloted for this kind of player.

 

Perhaps depth and flexibility is may be one of those 'market inefficiencies' that people talk about.

[SRB]

My guess is he isn't considered a top 100 prospect anymore.

 

No, probably not. But Ramon Flores was ranked what, >20 in his own organization?

 

I don't like the return, especially at a position as easy to fill as OF/1B. Hopefully Stearns views Flores as being wildly undervalued and he proves me wrong.

[Jenkins5]

He was a top 13 prospect for Yankees for a few years, he lost a whole season nearly in 2014 that hurt his cause. Really not much different than the prospect rankings Michael Reed has been around. Reed just offers much more on the bases.

[MadScientist]

My guess is he isn't considered a top 100 prospect anymore.

 

No, probably not. But Ramon Flores was ranked what, >20 in his own organization?

 

I don't like the return, especially at a position as easy to fill as OF/1B. Hopefully Stearns views Flores as being wildly undervalued and he proves me wrong.

 

I'm satisfied with the return. Flores looks like a better offensive prospect by a long stretch. The Brewers have a lot of options at SS/2B, and not much depth at first. That plus roster flexibility makes this a good trade to me.

[Thurston Fluff]

My guess is he isn't considered a top 100 prospect anymore.

 

No, probably not. But Ramon Flores was ranked what, >20 in his own organization?

 

I don't like the return, especially at a position as easy to fill as OF/1B. Hopefully Stearns views Flores as being wildly undervalued and he proves me wrong.

 

The past few years experience tends to make me believe first isn't all that easy to fill.

[danzig6767]

My guess is he isn't considered a top 100 prospect anymore.

 

No, probably not. But Ramon Flores was ranked what, >20 in his own organization?

I don't like the return, especially at a position as easy to fill as OF/1B. Hopefully Stearns views Flores as being wildly undervalued and he proves me wrong.

What were you expecting in return for Sardinas who if he's the starting shortstop for a team, it will only be because they are totally devoid of talent at the position?

 

He's not special defensively and has a fly swatter bat. I'm sure Stearns let other teams know that Sardinas was available. If there was more demand for the guy, Stearns would have gladly accepted a better return.

[Invader3K]

 

The past few years experience tends to make me believe first isn't all that easy to fill.

 

It seems like it's a league-wide problem and not just isolated to the Brewers.

 

re: Sardinas, I agree that it seems like some on this site are overvaluing him. Then again, most fans overvalue their team's prospects somewhat.