KROD to the Tigers for Betancourt and PTBNL (PTBNL is catcher Manny Piña, post 157)

[Mudville9]

Jefry Marte 3B 24yo

Wynton Benard CF 25yo

Luis Cessa SP 23

Montreal Robertson SP 25

 

and the guy that makes the most sense for this trade Jairo Labourt. The Brewers needed their player on 40 man to make sure they were not taken. Labourt, is 21 pitched awful in Advanced A ball and showed almost no reason why he could stick at MLB level as a role 5. Great potential though.

 

K-Rod for Bethencourt and Labourt is a win in my eyes for sure.

 

I was thinking Labourt also as a nice piece. I wonder if we could get Cessa in the Rule V and then Labourt in the trade?

[BrewBalls]

Jefry Marte 3B 24yo

Wynton Benard CF 25yo

Luis Cessa SP 23

Montreal Robertson SP 25

 

and the guy that makes the most sense for this trade Jairo Labourt. The Brewers needed their player on 40 man to make sure they were not taken. Labourt, is 21 pitched awful in Advanced A ball and showed almost no reason why he could stick at MLB level as a role 5. Great potential though.

 

K-Rod for Bethencourt and Labourt is a win in my eyes for sure.

 

I was thinking Labourt also as a nice piece. I wonder if we could get Cessa in the Rule V and then Labourt in the trade?

Cessa was added to the 40 man roster which makes him ineligible to be taken in the Rule 5 draft. I highly doubt we will be getting two additional players for K-Rod.

[Jenkins5]

I'm really am convinced it is Labourt. It is just the most logical for the description given.

[BrewBalls]

I'm really am convinced it is Labourt. It is just the most logical for the description given.

Agreed. He was just added to their roster today.

[MrTPlush]

I'm really am convinced it is Labourt. It is just the most logical for the description given.

 

Why else would they add someone in the lower minors with horrible stats to the 40 man? Seems like a guy you would at least just risk losing...unless of course he is needed in a trade. hint hint

[hyerbro1]

The referenced text from the Tigers article makes no sense. The player the Brewers are getting as the PTBNL is NOT on the 40 man roster of the Tigers. If the player was on the Tigers 40 but the Brewers did not want the player on their 40, they would need to expose the player to waivers. In this scenario the Brewers would assume the risk. The opposite would be true if the player was not on the Tigers 40. If that player is taken by another team during the Rule 5 draft, the Brewers get a different player who does not need to be on the 40 man roster.

 

I have been wrong many times before, can someone explain to me what I am missing?

 

Who are the Tigers best players not being added to their 40? That is where I would focus my speculation.

[Point Beer Is Best]

The referenced text from the Tigers article makes no sense. The player the Brewers are getting as the PTBNL is NOT on the 40 man roster of the Tigers. If the player was on the Tigers 40 but the Brewers did not want the player on their 40, they would need to expose the player to waivers. In this scenario the Brewers would assume the risk. The opposite would be true if the player was not on the Tigers 40. If that player is taken by another team during the Rule 5 draft, the Brewers get a different player who does not need to be on the 40 man roster.

 

I have been wrong many times before, can someone explain to me what I am missing?

 

Who are the Tigers best players not being added to their 40? That is where I would focus my speculation.

 

If the speculation is correct (PTBNL is on the Tigers 40 man), it's because the Brewers are trying to keep an extra spot on their own 40 man roster through the Rule 5 draft. In this scenario, the Brewers DO want the player to be on their 40 man, but not at this time. They will add him after the Rule 5 draft. What you're saying (PTBNL is NOT on the Tigers 40 man) would not really make sense. If the player isn't Rule 5 eligible, they would have just sent him over since that would have no 40 man roster implications.

 

Like others have said, the most logical choices are the guys that the Tigers have recently added to their 40 man. If we're correct, they basically told the Tigers that they wanted that player, but they a) didn't want them on their own 40 man at this time and b) told the Tigers to put them on their 40 man roster to prevent them from being selected in the Rule 5 draft. That's why it makes the most sense to speculate that the PTBNL is on the Tigers 40 man roster, particularly the late adds.

[jerichoholicninja]

Doesn't a PTBNL have to be on the 40 man roster at the time of the trade?

[CheeseheadInQC]

It all depends on which of two theories you believe. Under the first, the player is on the 40-man roster, but Brewers want 40-man roster flexibility through the Rule 5 draft, allowing them to make a roster move afterward if they draft a player rather than having to make a roster move before the draft and then having the guy they were targeting get taken before them (or freeing up space until more of their trading is done).

 

Under the second, the player the teams agreed upon is Rule 5 draft eligible, but the Brewers would rather not spend a 40-man spot on him so they are waiting to make the transaction official until after the draft. In this case, if the player is selected by a different team, a different prospect would be inserted into the deal (possibly a slightly better one but with the Brewers sending someone else back, necessitating the Brewers' PTBNL being included in the deal even though both sides say only the Tigers' is guaranteed to be used).

[1992casey]

I believe that a PTBNL can generally come from anywhere in the system except the 25 man roster. Right now, there's no 25 man roster.

[hyerbro1]

My prediction is that the PTBNL is eligible for the Rule 5 draft. The Brewers will have a choice of players that were not selected in the Rule 5 draft from the Tigers.

 

I'll throw out two names, Josh Turley and Johan Belasario.

[LouisEly]

Why else would they add someone in the lower minors with horrible stats to the 40 man? Seems like a guy you would at least just risk losing...unless of course he is needed in a trade. hint hint

Well, they have 40 slots, so they might as well use them just in case. Put the best 38-eligible on the roster and leave two spots open just in case someone interesting slips to you, another team wants you to take someone for them and you can make a trade, or another team has to remove a player and you can make a claim.

[Jenkins5]

Why else would they add someone in the lower minors with horrible stats to the 40 man? Seems like a guy you would at least just risk losing...unless of course he is needed in a trade. hint hint

Well, they have 40 slots, so they might as well use them just in case. Put the best 38-eligible on the roster and leave two spots open just in case someone interesting slips to you, another team wants you to take someone for them and you can make a trade, or another team has to remove a player and you can make a claim.

 

You are also already starting his option years.... In the end, I believe Brewers wanted keep 40 man spots open until after Rule 5 draft at the same didn't want to risk Tigers losing Jairo. Once Brewers make some moves a figure out there plan for 40 man roster/rule 5, they will bring him in

[ClosetBrewerFan]

It was reported earlier that GM Avila said this trade is complicated and there is a chance the Tigers could also get a PTBNL back. If true, then this doesn't make sense:

 

It's likely that the reason the Tigers included a player to be named later in the trade that brought them closer Francisco Rodriguez was because the Milwaukee Brewers wanted the Tigers to keep that player on their 40-man roster through the Rule 5 draft to prevent them from having to expose a player they did not want to expose.

 

If the Brewers have selected a player and he is on the 40 already, then I don't see how the Tigers "may" get a PTBNL back. The only two options I can see is:

 

• 1. The player is exposed to the Rule 5 and if selected by someone, the brewers have a list of alternates. I suppose that list could include players on or off the 40 man roster. That would explain why the Tigers could get a PTBNL back if the Brewers get a 40 man roster player with more value
  2. The Brewers and Tigers could not agree on a player at the time of the trade and will work it out later. As speculated by this article:

http://www.blessyouboys.com/2015/11/18/9755760/francisco-rodriguez-detroit-tigers-trade-javier-betancourt, there are two lists of players, one of which would net a return player to the tigers. It could include players on or off the 40 man and still could be impacted by the Rule 5 draft.

 

It's fun to speculate on this. I'm hoping we get Labourt. Maybe it will be Marte to fill the 3b spot.

[jerichoholicninja]

It was reported earlier that GM Avila said this trade is complicated and there is a chance the Tigers could also get a PTBNL back. If true, then this doesn't make sense:

 

It's likely that the reason the Tigers included a player to be named later in the trade that brought them closer Francisco Rodriguez was because the Milwaukee Brewers wanted the Tigers to keep that player on their 40-man roster through the Rule 5 draft to prevent them from having to expose a player they did not want to expose.

 

If the Brewers have selected a player and he is on the 40 already, then I don't see how the Tigers "may" get a PTBNL back. The only two options I can see is:

 

• 1. The player is exposed to the Rule 5 and if selected by someone, the brewers have a list of alternates. I suppose that list could include players on or off the 40 man roster. That would explain why the Tigers could get a PTBNL back if the Brewers get a 40 man roster player with more value
  2. The Brewers and Tigers could not agree on a player at the time of the trade and will work it out later. As speculated by this article:

http://www.blessyouboys.com/2015/11/18/9755760/francisco-rodriguez-detroit-tigers-trade-javier-betancourt, there are two lists of players, one of which would net a return player to the tigers. It could include players on or off the 40 man and still could be impacted by the Rule 5 draft.

 

It's fun to speculate on this. I'm hoping we get Labourt. Maybe it will be Marte to fill the 3b spot.

 

When this trade first happened, MLBTradeRumors reported that both teams were getting a PTBNL. I was surprised this was never talked about here.

[Thurston Fluff]

Silly question but if the Brewers wanted a certain player selected in the rule 5 draft but didn't want to take up a spot on the 40 man roster at that point couldn't they have the Tigers select him then make him the PTNL when they are ready for him?

[MrTPlush]

Silly question but if the Brewers wanted a certain player selected in the rule 5 draft but didn't want to take up a spot on the 40 man roster at that point couldn't they have the Tigers select him then make him the PTNL when they are ready for him?

 

No, I am almost positive that the player must already be named on a list on the current team.

[MrTPlush]

Why else would they add someone in the lower minors with horrible stats to the 40 man? Seems like a guy you would at least just risk losing...unless of course he is needed in a trade. hint hint

Well, they have 40 slots, so they might as well use them just in case. Put the best 38-eligible on the roster and leave two spots open just in case someone interesting slips to you, another team wants you to take someone for them and you can make a trade, or another team has to remove a player and you can make a claim.

 

Well it isn't that simple because leaving them off is attractive because if they don't get selected you won't have them on your 40 man. If you put them on your 40 man then you have him stuck there or risk him getting claimed by another team if you pull him off which is worse than if he just got selected I the Rule 5

[Thurston Fluff]

Silly question but if the Brewers wanted a certain player selected in the rule 5 draft but didn't want to take up a spot on the 40 man roster at that point couldn't they have the Tigers select him then make him the PTNL when they are ready for him?

 

No, I am almost positive that the player must already be named on a list on the current team.

 

Why can't they put him on the list of potential players? I know they can have more than one player listed.

[1992casey]

My gut says that no list is necessary and that all that has to be done is send a player over to the new team when the time comes to do it.

[Thurston Fluff]

Thanks. With Detroit's poor farm system it seems unlikely any other team would want one of their unprotected guys. Wouldn't it make sense to have Detroit pick up a rule 5 guy for us because they really don't have to worry about protecting 40 players? That way we essentially have 41 players protected well into spring if we wanted.

[Point Beer Is Best]

Thanks. With Detroit's poor farm system it seems unlikely any other team would want one of their unprotected guys. Wouldn't it make sense to have Detroit pick up a rule 5 guy for us because they really don't have to worry about protecting 40 players? That way we essentially have 41 players protected well into spring if we wanted.

 

That's another interesting possibility. They may have a player in mind who's already on the Tigers roster, but if another player falls to Detroit in the Rule 5, Stearns could ask them to select him and send him over as the PTBNL. Unless there's a rule about a player actually needing to be on the roster at the time the original trade is agreed upon.

[MrTPlush]

Yah I honestly have no idea because I have never seen where the player isn't on the roster already. Maybe it is possible...unlikely that is the case even if it is allowed.

[pacopete4]

When is the rule 5 draft again?

[bork]

When is the rule 5 draft again?

 

December 10th.