Lind, Lucroy, K-Rod available (as per Olney)

[Kelbysdaddy]

How about a segura and lucroy trade to san diego? They need a ss and can build a package involving Austin Hedges to come back to us.

[bill hAll Star]

How about a segura and lucroy trade to san diego? They need a ss and can build a package involving Austin Hedges to come back to us.

 

Not a terrible deal, but it depends if you think Hedges can ever hit the ball. I know he's supposed to be an elite catcher, but he's had some horrific batting seasons of late, including his first one in the majors. I'm not sure San Diego is a team that is buying right now, either.

[trwi7]

DISCLAIMER: I do not care whether or not a catcher is in the package - just give me the best collection of young players.

 

Yes, thank you. Needing to get a catcher of the future or a 3rd baseman of the future is not the way to trade. You're severely limiting the talent you can get back if you only focus on getting certain positions or getting guys close to the majors.

 

Get the best package of players you can and figure it out later.

[Kelbysdaddy]

How about a segura and lucroy trade to san diego? They need a ss and can build a package involving Austin Hedges to come back to us.

 

Not a terrible deal, but it depends if you think Hedges can ever hit the ball. I know he's supposed to be an elite catcher, but he's had some horrific batting seasons of late, including his first one in the majors. I'm not sure San Diego is a team that is buying right now, either.

Agreed about Hedges hitting but he's still just 23 so he has some time. I think them being buyers or sellers will depend on what kind of trade interest they get in Matt Kemp.

[reillymcshane]

DISCLAIMER: I do not care whether or not a catcher is in the package - just give me the best collection of young players.

 

Yes, thank you. Needing to get a catcher of the future or a 3rd baseman of the future is not the way to trade. You're severely limiting the talent you can get back if you only focus on getting certain positions or getting guys close to the majors.

 

Get the best package of players you can and figure it out later.

Totally agree here.

 

We have the luxury of not being forced to fill a position with a long term solution at this time. Having a prospect 3B or catcher tomorrow isn't essential to 2016 because it won't change the fact that we just won't be that good.

 

It's a very different situation if you're St. Louis or the Cubs or Pirates. They expect to contend next year, and can't afford to have a huge hole in their lineup.

 

I'm not saying we ignore 3B or catcher - but wait for the right situation to fill the hole. That might be a free agent, or a draft pick, or whatever. But take our time and make sure it's best for the team.

[BrewBalls]

DISCLAIMER: I do not care whether or not a catcher is in the package - just give me the best collection of young players.

 

Yes, thank you. Needing to get a catcher of the future or a 3rd baseman of the future is not the way to trade. You're severely limiting the talent you can get back if you only focus on getting certain positions or getting guys close to the majors.

 

Get the best package of players you can and figure it out later.

Totally agree here.

 

We have the luxury of not being forced to fill a position with a long term solution at this time. Having a prospect 3B or catcher tomorrow isn't essential to 2016 because it won't change the fact that we just won't be that good.

 

It's a very different situation if you're St. Louis or the Cubs or Pirates. They expect to contend next year, and can't afford to have a huge hole in their lineup.

 

I'm not saying we ignore 3B or catcher - but wait for the right situation to fill the hole. That might be a free agent, or a draft pick, or whatever. But take our time and make sure it's best for the team.

I agree with all of these thoughts. The Cubs traded Samardzija for Russell (#11 overall) when they already had Castro and Baez knocking on the door. But he was by far the best prospect to be had in the A's system. People questioned the move because of their depth but it seems to have worked our just fine for them this past season. I would prefer building a package around a legitimate stud pitching prospect than a top ranked catcher if we decide to trade Lucroy.

[reillymcshane]

I agree with all of these thoughts. The Cubs traded Samardzija for Russell (#11 overall) when they already had Castro and Baez knocking on the door. But he was by far the best prospect to be had in the A's system. People questioned the move because of their depth but it seems to have worked our just fine for them this past season. I would prefer building a package around a legitimate stud pitching prospect than a top ranked catcher if we decide to trade Lucroy.

I would second this sentiment regarding adding a stud pitcher over a catching prospect. Stud catching prospects like Buster Posey are very rare, and even the good ones often take years to develop (a lot of them flame out as well as they get to the upper minors).

 

While pitchers aren't exactly the most stable of prospects either, I want lots of high upside arms due to the flame out rate. And identifying an impact arm in the minors is probably safer than trying to project most catchers.

[MNBrew]

Disclaimer: This post takes a little time to get to being on-topic. But first a little venting...

 

What bothers me most in a lot of these discussions is how very intensely interested fans view themselves as definitive experts on how players project -- and often come across to others as though they themselves have the absolute best perspective from which to judge front office moves (not to mention other fans' opinions) on account of their knowledge gained almost solely from online resources . . . with little to no experience or access to scouts' knowledge or information or instincts, often with a stats-heavy bias that often seemingly largely excludes relevant eyeball-test type perspectives, and especially with little to no actual professional baseball experience let alone any sort of credible candidacy to work for a MLB team. . . . .

 

Opinions simply are what they are. If someone's are stronger than someone else's, it doesn't necessarily make the first person any more right. Just like wanting something more badly than someone else doesn't automatically make that person the most qualified or deserving.

 

A good part of this discussion is about Lucroy, his contract situation, and how he projects. Lucroy's game never projected him to become the caliber of relatively complete player that he actually has become in the majors, especially defensively (solid CS%, great ball-blocking, good pitch-framing, improved footwork). Of course inevitably he's going to tail off!!! The honest unknown is if that starts at 30, 33, 35, 38, whatever. People talk about him as injury prone. Not all his injuries are signs of being injury prone -- some of it's just fluky or bad luck (broken finger due to a suitcase falling on his hand (fluke!), broken toe due to fouling a ball off his foot (bad luck!)) as opposed to chronic muscle or joint issues..... I like the guy as a player and don't favor trading him, preferring to see him as part of the team's core going forward assuming the price is reasonable enough (not everyone in the core has to be 23 and making the minimum right now) -- that's just my opinion -- all in spite of the fact that no one can say definitively how he will or won't do in his next 150, 1500, or 10 years' worth of ABs and innings played or what he would or wouldn't net in return if he's ever traded.

 

People love to use the Cardinals as a measuring stick (as frustrating as that is for many of us to do). It's a fair knock on the Brewers that most of the guys -- esp. pitchers (Suppan, Wolf, etc.) -- signed to multi-year deals haven't fared well by the end of those deals. On the other hand, the Cardinals historically sign far more well-proven vets than the Brewers yet rarely have any of those contracts end up in the albatross category. Is the issue the length of contract? No. It's who they sign. What I'd be very interested in figuring out is why they tend to pick the right guys and we seemingly don't. . . . That said, Yadier Molina is still a very good catcher, yet he's on a 10-year deal & arguably not performing so commensurately anymore with the big-bucks he's getting (.719 & .660 OPS the past two years), yet most around baseball still respect him for who he is & what he does. Tony Cruz isn't anything great (except seemingly against MIL) but I don't think Cardinal Nation is screaming for Molina to be moved because he costs so much.

[bill hAll Star]

The Cardinals have also avoided signing several players that they didn't think would be worth the money long-term.

 

Namely, they decided not to pay Albert Pujols the absurd amount that he wanted. They let Lohse walk after they got what they could...Suppan...etc.

 

Molina is starting to hit the part of his contract/career where he may be overpaid. However, the Cards are contending. You can afford to overpay a player there. They've basically been in a competitive window for 10+ years now. If the Brewers were in the Cubs', Pirates', or Cardinals' position right now, I'd be totally fine with asking Lucroy to take a 5 year extension right now. You risk overpaying a guy at the end of his deal to win right now. The Cards signed Molina a handful of years ago knowing that they'd be overpaying him later - but you deal with that to win the World Series when your window is open.

 

You're right. Everyone can have their opinion on these things and I respect that you want to have Lucroy here. The difference between the Cardinals' situation and the Brewers is current outlook. Holliday and Molina can be your "overpaid vets" on the back-end of a competitive cycle. The Brewers had those and I didn't complain. The issue is that the Brewers need to open up a new competitive window and right now the best way to acquire young talent to open that is via trading the affordable, in his prime Jonathan Lucroy.

 

I realize Lucroy is a fan favorite for the assumed team leadership and staff leadership. I can guarantee you in 2018 we'll have 5 new guys that we want to latch on to. I'm not going to complain at all if Phillips is a stud and we buy out 2 years of free agency for him for an 8 year, $100 million dollar deal. We'll have new loyalty to a player. I also won't complain if the team is an 85 win team in 2018 and we had to pick up a stopgap catcher (let's say Grandal, for example) and the Brewers then sign him to a 5 year extension, knowing that he may deteriorate in the last 2 years of that deal. That's where the difference is. It just doesn't make much sense to pay big bucks for a guy in non-competitive years just to have his declining years also be overpays at the back end.

 

Again, I respect your opinion - but Lucroy is likely to be dealt. It just makes too much business sense. We'll all have our new favorite team leaders to follow in 2018/2019 and we can give Luc a standing O when he comes back to Miller Park. There will be plenty of players to be loyal fans of that we will have control of for 5-10 years. We'll have new fan favorites.

[MNBrew]

I should clarify that although my hope is that Lucroy's not dealt, I'm very aware that it seems likely that he could be dealt.

 

I choose to use the verb "seems" rather than "is" because people's view of it being likely is still just conjecture. However much the typical indicators & past precedent (other teams' histories/actions at a similar franchise-transition stage) might point toward him being traded, every circumstance is uniquely its own and anything could happen -- in any direction.

 

For what it's worth, I value Lucroy a lot, but my preferring to keep him isn't a fan loyalty thing on my part (I don't view him as the face of the franchise, in other words, or my most favorite Brewer these days if I'd say I have one).

 

I should also add that I don't consider signing Lohse to have been a foolish choice to sign. They got 2 very solid seasons from him (plus great staff leadership) with nothing to suggest the 3rd would be any different until it happened. And the main failure wasn't velocity or "stuff," just location/command. Garza looks shaky after 2 years but could just as easily rebound next year as get worse, so to my thinking the jury's still out on him (the last piece of evidence he offered just wasn't good in terms of his overall 2015).

[mlloyd10]

Saw this trade idea out there - Any thoughts

 

Twins get: Lind

Brewers get: SP Stephen Gonsalves and 3B Trey Cabbage

[pacopete4]

Saw this trade idea out there - Any thoughts

 

Twins get: Lind

Brewers get: SP Stephen Gonsalves and 3B Trey Cabbage

 

 

Looks like it would be a solid return for Lind but why would the Twins need him now with the Korean ball player they just bought, Mauer, and Ploufe to fill 1B/DH?

[bill hAll Star]

I should clarify that although my hope is that Lucroy's not dealt, I'm very aware that it seems likely that he could be dealt.

 

I choose to use the verb "seems" rather than "is" because people's view of it being likely is still just conjecture. However much the typical indicators & past precedent (other teams' histories/actions at a similar franchise-transition stage) might point toward him being traded, every circumstance is uniquely its own and anything could happen -- in any direction.

 

For what it's worth, I value Lucroy a lot, but my preferring to keep him isn't a fan loyalty thing on my part (I don't view him as the face of the franchise, in other words, or my most favorite Brewer these days if I'd say I have one).

 

I should also add that I don't consider signing Lohse to have been a foolish choice to sign. They got 2 very solid seasons from him (plus great staff leadership) with nothing to suggest the 3rd would be any different until it happened. And the main failure wasn't velocity or "stuff," just location/command. Garza looks shaky after 2 years but could just as easily rebound next year as get worse, so to my thinking the jury's still out on him (the last piece of evidence he offered just wasn't good in terms of his overall 2015).

 

I'm with you. I'm a fan (sort of) of Lohse and Garza signings when they think they are going to be a competitive team. I wouldn't have done the Lohse deal, but they're willing to risk a throwaway year or two at the end of the deal to get a good player while they think they have a chance to win. I'd rather build organically for a long-view of the franchise, but I can understand those moves and was OK with them.

 

Here's another thing with Lucroy: We are very, very unlikely to compete this year and probably next year (the last 2 years of Luc's contract). We cannot guarantee that Luc will even stay here after his contract ends. We also may have to pony up a ton of money to keep him if we so choose. He's going to test the market as it's likely his last chance to do so. Now you're not only just hoping that if you can get Lucroy back for 2018-2023 or whatever the contract hoping that he doesn't majorly decline...you're also risking getting nothing but the comp pick if he walks away. Said comp pick probably won't be ready until 2021 or so.

 

Get the prospects in the system now while Lucroy is at likely his highest value that we'll see while he's still under this contract.

[BrewBalls]

Saw this trade idea out there - Any thoughts

 

Twins get: Lind

Brewers get: SP Stephen Gonsalves and 3B Trey Cabbage

I would be happy with this return for Lind.

[Kelbysdaddy]

Saw this trade idea out there - Any thoughts

 

Twins get: Lind

Brewers get: SP Stephen Gonsalves and 3B Trey Cabbage

I would be happy with this return for Lind.

VERY happy with that return. Gonsalves is legit.

[MrTPlush]

Awesome trade for the Brewers. Too bad Twins don't have a spot for Lind.

[Jenkins5]

Awesome trade for the Brewers. Too bad Twins don't have a spot for Lind.

 

It is nice being in the AL, you can always add a bat and make a place for him.

[bill hAll Star]

Awesome trade for the Brewers. Too bad Twins don't have a spot for Lind.

 

It is nice being in the AL, you can always add a bat and make a place for him.

 

3B (probably) - Sano MAYBE Plouffe

 

1B/DH - Sano or Plouffe, Mauer, Byung-Ho Park, Kennys Vargas, maybe Oswaldo Arcia, maybe Max Kepler

 

They may clear it out a little bit before the season, but right now too much of a logjam since they are probably compelled to at least keep Mauer on as a bench role guy. Given their depth there, I can't imagine them giving up a very promising young SP prospect for a guy to fit in a positional/organizational logjam on a 1-year contract.

[And That]

They only way they'd be interested as their roster is currently constructed, is if they fail to sign Park. Park and Mauer are both limited to 1B/DH. Unless they want to platoon Park or try him in the OF, but I think that's unlikely at this point.

[Kelbysdaddy]

I heard something about vargas possibly playing in japan next year.

[MrTPlush]

I heard something about vargas possibly playing in japan next year.

 

Yes it sounds like a possibility it they sign Park and he actually wants to do it.

[brewcrewdue80]

Earlier it was pointed out about the Cardinals and ability to avoid that 10year signing but not with Molina. I'd say that Molina's strength is the Arm/glove/defense something super elite a dropoff as he aged is likely better than 90% of the Catchers in MLB still. As much as I hate the guy, for a 10year signing, he's probably the most likely of any 10year signing to return the value you signed him for.

 

The Lind trade with Minn.

Stephen Gonzalves was the pitcher I liked leading up to the Lohse signing. I think he fell down from a 15-25th pick projection due to slight injury/maybe signability? Sigh. He alone, honestly should be enough to get Lind for 1year. He's a 1st round talent that's more proven than the QO after 1st round talent the Brewers would get after he wasn't re-signed.

I agree with the above opinion, why does Minn. trade for Lind to play a position already filled? Especially at the cost of Gonsalves who's very underrated most likely due to his 4th rd selection....not the 1st/2nd overhyped and rated selections you see on top 100 lists.

 

Anyway, nothing really new, obviously we're all itching for the next move after the 3 trades in 3 days, including KRod.

[Devinep]

Minnesota will trade Plouffe or move Sano to the OF and they haven't agreed to terms with Park yet. But his production and affordability combined with a weak 1B market make a lot of suitors. I think it may net a solid return. Maybe the Orioles, Pirates, Twins, Astros, Nats, Cardinals, Mariners, Indians, and Nats will compete over him (at least those who don't go internal or sign Chris Davis)

[Bnowell4evr]

Boston could be a potential match for Adam Lind. They're supposedly trying to dump Hanley Ramirez on another team and are kicking the tires on Chris Davis. However, they also want to add a front line starting pitcher which is where Adam Lind would come into play. Lind would only cost them a few prospects and his salary wouldn't prevent them from going after the pitcher that they want.

[craigharmann]

Boston could be a potential match for Adam Lind. They're supposedly trying to dump Hanley Ramirez on another team and are kicking the tires on Chris Davis. However, they also want to add a front line starting pitcher which is where Adam Lind would come into play. Lind would only cost them a few prospects and his salary wouldn't prevent them from going after the pitcher that they want.

 

Lind and Garza to Boston for whatever you can get back sounds good to me.