Brewers open to moving anyone on the roster

[reillymcshane]

Buster Olney is saying that the Brewers are open to dealing anyone on the roster. It's an ESPN Insider article, so there aren't many details other than what other places have posted, such as here:

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/10/nl-central-notes-brewers-cherington-schwarber.html

 

This essentially puts Lucroy into play, but as noted, “only in the right deal.”

 

I think that, if true, it shows the new front office is going to be more aggressive about retooling. Not a full rebuild - Stearns has said the club doesn't need that. But guys like Lucroy, Braun, Peralta, Segura, Lind, K-Rod and whomever are chips that could be sent elsewhere - if the exchange is worth it. I think one thing we have going for us is that we don't have to make moves. We can hang onto guys like Lucroy if it isn't worth it and deal him this summer or even next off season.

 

Personally, I'm happy with the (hopefully) new approach. We need to think of 2018 as an opportunity - not 2016.

 

Ultimate caveat is that this is from a writer - Olney may have bad information or just making stuff up.

 

Olney's original article:

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/buster-olney/insider/post?id=11458

[dlk9s]

Sounds fine to me. I don't WANT the Brewers to trade Lucroy and Braun and I don't think the front office WANTS to, either, but it's ok to allow other teams to make offers and see if anything is intriguing.

[CheezWizHed]

I would hope most teams operate this way with the caveat of the team's franchise type players. Its an easy statement, because "the right deal" is often very advantageous to us. Doesn't mean we are actively shopping everyone, just that our ears are open.

 

Braun might have been one of those "franchise" type players before the whole PEDs thing blew up. No one else on the team approaches that level.

 

Hopefully anyone and everyone we trade is for "the right deal"

[BuckyBrewer61]

Any player is always available for the right price...

 

If the Angels were offered DeGrom, Syndergaard, Matz, Harvey, Nimmo and Conforto for Mike Trout, would they say no because Trout is a franchise player, and is "untouchable"? No way. Obviously the Mets would never do that, but illustrates the point that there is no such thing as untouchable, just "extremely unlikely to be traded for anything that anyone would actually offer."

[reillymcshane]

I think the willingness to say to other teams, "Everyone is available," is a big step in getting other clubs to seriously consider all of Milwaukee's assets.

 

There's a difference in saying, "I would have to be blown away to deal Lucroy" and "We'll listen to deals regarding Lucroy, just like everyone else."

 

The former has a 'I'm not trading (insert player) unless you insanely overpay' connotation. The latter is, sort of, just saying that the player is available at what would be considered more of a 'market' rate - as opposed to some outrageous price. It's not that a guy is suddenly cheap, or you have to move the player, just that the club is open to making the right deal(s).

[MNBrew]

Whether Stearns actually said "everyone is available" or that's just Olney's interpretation of what he heard is the sort of reporting we hear all the time -- semantics on one level, but very different realities on another. Some reporters like the prospect of player movement as action/news to report and, as a result, often err in their accuracy under the premise/guise of semantics.

 

In the end, Olney could be spot-on, but I'll believe it when we see it, which brings up my own slant...

 

I'm totally w/ dlk9s. I don't want the Brewers to trade Braun or Lucroy and I don't want the FO to want to, either. There's such intrigue to the prospect of trading one/both of those two, which I get. But sentiment is different than need and the Brewers have no actual need to cut that much payroll, regardless of Lucroy's trade value and the size of Braun's contract. To me, the "trade Braun &/or Lucroy" seriously walks the line of "be careful what you wish for."

 

Whether or not Braun's the "face of the franchise" per se anymore or not, the PED stuff is in the past and he's still one of the top-level offensive players in the league, all the more so because it took him a while to get his bat going & regain his old form post-thumb-procedure & 1.5 years of injury-affected play. He wasn't Bryce Harper-hot this year, but there weren't that many players overall above his level (OPS, HRs/run production, speed, etc.). Guys who play like that don't exactly grow on trees, and guys like that who actually WANT to and willingly commit to play in Milwaukee are that much more rare.

[MrTPlush]

What are people so adamant to not trade Lucroy? Unless we opt to extend an out of prime good but not great catcher he will not be on the next competitive Brewers team. We could replace an older Lucroy without too much trouble.

 

There is no elite player on this team. No once in a generation kind of talent(like Braun was) that we would want to not trade. Everyone on this team could easily be replaced before we start competing again.

 

Personally a minor move I would like to see is trading Segura. He is absolutely horrible here and paying him $3mil seems like a waste of money. Let someone else have a shot.

[endaround]

When you trade you best pitcher and your 2nd best player during the deadline, yeah everybody will be available.

[MNBrew]

What are people so adamant to not trade Lucroy? Unless we opt to extend an out of prime good but not great catcher he will not be on the next competitive Brewers team. We could replace an older Lucroy without too much trouble.

 

There is no elite player on this team. No once in a generation kind of talent(like Braun was) that we would want to not trade. Everyone on this team could easily be replaced before we start competing again.

 

Personally a minor move I would like to see is trading Segura. He is absolutely horrible here and paying him $3mil seems like a waste of money. Let someone else have a shot.

There's a dearth of truly good catchers out there. Sure, we can get a body in here to fill the spot. But many have recited the parade of ham-and-egger or career-downslide catchers this team went through after Surhoff & Nilsson and before Lucroy, and I'd rather not re-live that experience again in spite of some far-better-than-expected contributions from Eddie Perez, Keith Osik, Paul Bako, & Gregg Zaun (I shake my head as I type those names, both because they actually had decent MIL years and all the more because how lousy some of the others proved to be).

 

I'd suggest that whomever will be the next solid, upper-end, everyday catcher for the Brewers after Lucroy (whenever that time does come) is quite possibly not anywhere near the Brewers' organization right now.

 

So to say Lucroy's easily replaceable is conjecture at best, wishful thinking for sure, and certainly not definitive at the least in terms of anything near the caliber of player he's been to date.

 

I get the logic of why he could be a very lucrative (no pun intended) trade chip. However, prospects aren't guaranteed. For every Gomez/Fiers trade, there's a Johan Santana-to-the-Mets deal. Some deals you win, some you lose. In the case of Lucroy, I'm inclined to lean toward the bird in the hand vs. the two prospect birds in the bush. Yes, Lucroy's in his prime years now. Nothing's guaranteed as players age, especially through their 30s. But some players also continue to improve for quite a while past the threshold of 30 and Lucroy strikes me as one who well could (with the universal caveat of maintaining good health).

 

(In case it helps to clarify my slant: I'm definitely a fan of the rebuild/retool/re-whatever. That's well underway. I'm not overly attached to Segura, Khris Davis, maybe even Gennett, and although I like Adam Lind as a player, I'd agree with those who figure that he probably has fewer games as a Brewer in front of him than he has behind him. I'm not, however, a fan of the total tear-down. The odds of that working meaningfully seem no better than the odds that it won't.)

[MrTPlush]

Honestly what is Lucroy? Realistically a 3 WAR catcher? If we replace him with a 1.5 WAR catcher are we really losing that much? Considering the fact we could save ourselves maybe $10mil doing so...maybe more? Is Lucroy really that great of a catcher outside of his offense? I would be much more concerned over how he holds runners on base and how he handles a pitching staff. That could be a little questionable considering some of the pitchers he has worked with that have excelled after leaving. Is he part of the problem? What if it takes us 5 years to start competing? We then have wasted a good 3 years of this extension for nothing. Then we have a 35 year old Lucroy when it really matters. Wouldn't the logical thing to do be just signing a catcher when our time to compete comes? Why not do what the Cubs did and go get your Catcher when you need it?

 

Sure the next great catcher for the Brewers may be nowhere in sight. I also don't see our next great ace, heck even our next #2 starter, next 1st baseman, next 2B, etc. This is a garbage major league team obviously a lot of positions look dismal. I can assure you one of the positions we think we have nothing at has a above average player quietly hitting/pitching in the minors. It happens all the time. I bet no one thought Khris Davis was a legit starter 5 years ago.

 

The next two years we are going to be picking Top 5. The Brewers could fix their catcher problem real quick. To not trade Lucroy because we don't have an obvious replacement or don't want to risk flopping on prospects is the perfect way to never compete. I could easily fix the infield depth with the trades of Lucroy+ and then draft a pitcher/catcher combo with my next two first round picks. Sure it might all flop, but if it does then our management probably sucks and it probably doesn't matter what the heck we do. Any bright person on this earth is going to do exactly what the Cubs/Astros did(mostly Cubs). They created a perfect model on how to effectively rebuild a franchise in today's game. Holding onto Lucroy is not apart of that model.

[paul253]

If I never again hear the phrase "I'm not motivated to move him" I'll be a happy happy man. Good to hear that Lucroy is in play. Unlike guys like Gomez Lind and KRod I won't be upset if Lucroy is on the 2016 roster but I think they could get a lot of excellent young talent in return for Lucroy. Maybe add in someone like Davis or Peralta and you could beat the Gomez haul.

[MNBrew]

The next two years we are going to be picking Top 5. The Brewers could fix their catcher problem real quick. To not trade Lucroy because we don't have an obvious replacement or don't want to risk flopping on prospects is the perfect way to never compete. I could easily fix the infield depth with the trades of Lucroy+ and then draft a pitcher/catcher combo with my next two first round picks. Sure it might all flop, but if it does then our management probably sucks and it probably doesn't matter what the heck we do. Any bright person on this earth is going to do exactly what the Cubs/Astros did(mostly Cubs). They created a perfect model on how to effectively rebuild a franchise in today's game. Holding onto Lucroy is not apart of that model.

Only one way to do this? Sorry, but lots of teams have done this before and continued to fail. Heck, even star child Billy Beane traded half the players in MLB last winter in what was not intended as a tear-down and Oakland went from a playoff team to the toilet.

 

You cannot guarantee that any specific prospect you're counting on or how many of your top prospects will pan out. Local example: In the late '80s & early '90s, we heard tons about the prospect train that included Eldred, Wegman, Bosio, Jaha, Braggs, Vaughn, and so on. That Brewers team had one good push ('92) and still didn't make the playoffs (granted, smaller playoff field, but still).

[JohnBriggs12]

Any player is always available for the right price...

 

If the Angels were offered DeGrom, Syndergaard, Matz, Harvey, Nimmo and Conforto for Mike Trout, would they say no because Trout is a franchise player, and is "untouchable"? No way. Obviously the Mets would never do that, but illustrates the point that there is no such thing as untouchable, just "extremely unlikely to be traded for anything that anyone would actually offer."

 

 

Absolutely. This "story", as most Buster Olney's are, is a non-story. Of course they'll listen to any offer. They won 68 games last year. Guys like Olney write this stuff because fans of teams out there wanting to pick over a dead carcass, as the national media views the Brewers, salivate over adding guys like Lucroy to their teams.

[LouisEly]

If I never again hear the phrase "I'm not motivated to move him" I'll be a happy happy man. Good to hear that Lucroy is in play. Unlike guys like Gomez Lind and KRod I won't be upset if Lucroy is on the 2016 roster but I think they could get a lot of excellent young talent in return for Lucroy. Maybe add in someone like Davis or Peralta and you could beat the Gomez haul.

I wouldn't get your hopes up regarding the Brewers trading Lucroy this offseason. I doubt that a team will offer a significant return for Lucroy until he proves that the concussion issues are behind him and he can catch again. His value diminishes greatly if he has to move to 1B or LF.

[Bombers]

If I never again hear the phrase "I'm not motivated to move him" I'll be a happy happy man. Good to hear that Lucroy is in play. Unlike guys like Gomez Lind and KRod I won't be upset if Lucroy is on the 2016 roster but I think they could get a lot of excellent young talent in return for Lucroy. Maybe add in someone like Davis or Peralta and you could beat the Gomez haul.

I wouldn't get your hopes up regarding the Brewers trading Lucroy this offseason. I doubt that a team will offer a significant return for Lucroy until he proves that the concussion issues are behind him and he can catch again. His value diminishes greatly if he has to move to 1B or LF.

The concussion issue is valid but if he can play and teams will do their own tests there are plenty of teams who could use a Catcher as good as Lucroy. (See Dodgers, Rangers, etc)

[Boomer5]

Luc should bring back a pretty sweet return. You can see the lack of quality catchers out there. Yes it isnt selling at his peak but Gomez showed teams are aware of their talent level regardless of snap shot performance.

 

Braun should be traded if at all possible, but I doubt that will happen. If they did, the Brewers would be in spectacular shape in contract flexibility going forward. I know Im in the minority here, but I see no scenario where we get much of anything out of the last 2-3 years of that contract, and thats when guys we will hope to be extending will become expensive.

 

Lind and KRod are the next obvious ones. I think Lind would be a nice trade chip but KRod never generates much interest.

[JohnBriggs12]

The next two years we are going to be picking Top 5. The Brewers could fix their catcher problem real quick. To not trade Lucroy because we don't have an obvious replacement or don't want to risk flopping on prospects is the perfect way to never compete. I could easily fix the infield depth with the trades of Lucroy+ and then draft a pitcher/catcher combo with my next two first round picks. Sure it might all flop, but if it does then our management probably sucks and it probably doesn't matter what the heck we do. Any bright person on this earth is going to do exactly what the Cubs/Astros did(mostly Cubs). They created a perfect model on how to effectively rebuild a franchise in today's game. Holding onto Lucroy is not apart of that model.

Only one way to do this? Sorry, but lots of teams have done this before and continued to fail. Heck, even star child Billy Beane traded half the players in MLB last winter in what was not intended as a tear-down and Oakland went from a playoff team to the toilet.

 

You cannot guarantee that any specific prospect you're counting on or how many of your top prospects will pan out. Local example: In the late '80s & early '90s, we heard tons about the prospect train that included Eldred, Wegman, Bosio, Jaha, Braggs, Vaughn, and so on. That Brewers team had one good push ('92) and still didn't make the playoffs (granted, smaller playoff field, but still).

 

Absolutely correct. As for the statement "The Brewers could fix their catcher problem real quick" all I can say is Henry Blanco, Eddie Perez, Chad Moeller, Damien Miller, Johnny Estrada, Jason Kendall, Gregg Zaun, and George Kattaras say "Hello".

 

Drafting a catcher high is no sure solution either. Jeff Clement was drafted ahead of Ryan Zimmerman, Ryan Braun and Troy Tulowitzki. How did that work out for Seattle?

 

The Cubs and Astros both derive a lot of their revenue from local television rights. Not so for a small market team like the Brewers. Brewers need revenue from attendance. Attendance lagged in both places and will lag considerably if Brewers tank the next 3-4 years.

[MrTPlush]

The next two years we are going to be picking Top 5. The Brewers could fix their catcher problem real quick. To not trade Lucroy because we don't have an obvious replacement or don't want to risk flopping on prospects is the perfect way to never compete. I could easily fix the infield depth with the trades of Lucroy+ and then draft a pitcher/catcher combo with my next two first round picks. Sure it might all flop, but if it does then our management probably sucks and it probably doesn't matter what the heck we do. Any bright person on this earth is going to do exactly what the Cubs/Astros did(mostly Cubs). They created a perfect model on how to effectively rebuild a franchise in today's game. Holding onto Lucroy is not apart of that model.

Only one way to do this? Sorry, but lots of teams have done this before and continued to fail. Heck, even star child Billy Beane traded half the players in MLB last winter in what was not intended as a tear-down and Oakland went from a playoff team to the toilet.

 

You cannot guarantee that any specific prospect you're counting on or how many of your top prospects will pan out. Local example: In the late '80s & early '90s, we heard tons about the prospect train that included Eldred, Wegman, Bosio, Jaha, Braggs, Vaughn, and so on. That Brewers team had one good push ('92) and still didn't make the playoffs (granted, smaller playoff field, but still).

 

Never said there was one way, but in the Brewers situation and how they are as a franchise that should be the model they attempt to replicate. Sure we never know how prospects will end up, but I really don't know if Lucroy is even worth $16mil+ or if he will even be a catcher next time we are competing. It isn't like if we keep Lucroy we know what we have because we don't. I would rather take the risk on the prospects than pay big money for what will be an average at best injury prone catcher/1st baseman next time we are competing. I am not say we will make it to the promised land if we trade Lucroy. Because it is very possible we never do just like if we keep Lucroy.

 

The reason we had such horrible catchers before is because we didn't have any in the minors AND we didn't want to pay for one. If you are going to overpay for Lucroy to be around now why not just wait and overspend on a catcher in 3-4 years from now while taking elite prospects today? I really do not think in 4 years it will be that hard to find someone just as good or close to a 33-34 year old Lucroy. Lucroy's offense will decline notably by then and I'd personally be thrilled if he was still at catcher full time. For the $16mil we would have to pay Lucroy you really don't think we could find someone similar?

[tmwiese55]

Lucroy is our best trade chip left if he comes back hitting next year, should get a lot back for him in that case. Unless he takes a team friendly deal, which he might just to put money in the bank, I think you have to trade him. If he insists on a Molina type 15/yr like ya'll have been discussing here then you just trade him. But if he'll take that extension to age 35 at 8-10/mil per year then I'd be fine with it. He got so ripped off in the last deal and still has two years left before he gets truly paid that he might say yes, give me my 40 mil now so I never have to worry about money again.

[MrTPlush]

Lucroy didn't get ripped off...Lucroy took the deal. On top of that a lot of people were questioning why the Brwers even made that deal to begin with.

 

The Brewers refused to even talk with Lucroy before. Either he wanted market value, something crazy like 5+ years, or the Brewers aren't all that motivated to keep him around. If he wanted only $10mil or so I feel they would have made it happen.

 

To me it would have to be team friendly and have to make sense where I am not too mad about losing out on a serious prospect package. 3/$30mil is probably my top dollar and even then I would question why I am not just trading him for prospects.

[monty57]

I don't want to extend Lucroy into his 30's at the price he'll likely demand, so he should be traded at some point. Theoretically, he should be more valuable now than next offseason, as he has more team control, so they should at least see what other teams would offer them for his services.

 

Braun should still have some good years in him, but those will likely be while the Brewers are rebuilding, and by the time they're on the upward swing, Braun will probably be declining, and taking up payroll that could be better used elsewhere. At that point, he will probably be untradable, so they are probably better off trading him while he's still good.

 

Neither of these guys have to be traded now, but there is reason to believe that now could be the best time to trade them.

 

As to the return, of course there is no guarantee any of the prospects will turn out, or that the Brewers will "win" the trade. On the other hand, there's no guarantee that Lucroy won't continue hitting like he did this year, or that he won't get another concussion that knocks him out of baseball.

 

If the Brewers go for prospects over "major league ready," they will get multiple prospects for either of Braun or Lucroy. That gives the Brewers a better chance that one or more of the players from the deal outplays expectations and helps the Brewers when they are in the upswing stage of the rebuild.

[tmwiese55]

Lucroy didn't get ripped off...Lucroy took the deal. On top of that a lot of people were questioning why the Brwers even made that deal to begin with.

 

The Brewers refused to even talk with Lucroy before. Either he wanted market value, something crazy like 5+ years, or the Brewers aren't all that motivated to keep him around. If he wanted only $10mil or so I feel they would have made it happen.

 

To me it would have to be team friendly and have to make sense where I am not too mad about losing out on a serious prospect package. 3/$30mil is probably my top dollar and even then I would question why I am not just trading him for prospects.

 

Call it what you will. I don't think he should be mad at the Brewers or anything, he agreed to it and at the time it seemed fair. Just that in hindsight he has greatly outplayed the deal and now he's looking at being low 30s with only having made 10mil-ish in his career before taxes/agent. So he's not set for life and playing catcher I wouldn't want to roll the dice on two more healthy seasons. I'd want to put that 30-50 mil in the bank and never have to think about it again.

 

For all the people on here that complain about how bad our management is and how the right way is to sign these player early to buy out some FA and get them to the early 30s and that our management didn't do it, another example of it right here along with guys like Gallardo, Weeks, Hart, even Gomez.

[MadScientist]

Lucroy didn't get ripped off...Lucroy took the deal. On top of that a lot of people were questioning why the Brewers even made that deal to begin with.

 

The Brewers refused to even talk with Lucroy before. Either he wanted market value, something crazy like 5+ years, or the Brewers aren't all that motivated to keep him around. If he wanted only $10mil or so I feel they would have made it happen.

 

I'm not sure I remember people questioning the original Lucroy deal. As for the new deal, Lucroy is almost certainly looking for close to market value, no reason he shouldn't. By not signing him to an extension, the Brewers are maximizing the return potential.

[MrTPlush]

Lucroy didn't get ripped off...Lucroy took the deal. On top of that a lot of people were questioning why the Brewers even made that deal to begin with.

 

The Brewers refused to even talk with Lucroy before. Either he wanted market value, something crazy like 5+ years, or the Brewers aren't all that motivated to keep him around. If he wanted only $10mil or so I feel they would have made it happen.

 

I'm not sure I remember people questioning the original Lucroy deal. As for the new deal, Lucroy is almost certainly looking for close to market value, no reason he shouldn't. By not signing him to an extension, the Brewers are maximizing the return potential.

 

 

A lot of people just thought it was an unneeded extension. Figuring Lucroy was just a placeholder kind of guy, but saw it as the Brewers trying to lock down a competent catcher for as long as possible since they had such issues at the position prior. More of a deal with some risk and little potential to pay off for the Brewers. Little did they know apparently Lucroy had quite the potential.

[Thurston Fluff]

Never said there was one way, but in the Brewers situation and how they are as a franchise that should be the model they attempt to replicate. Sure we never know how prospects will end up, but I really don't know if Lucroy is even worth $16mil+ or if he will even be a catcher next time we are competing. It isn't like if we keep Lucroy we know what we have because we don't. I would rather take the risk on the prospects than pay big money for what will be an average at best injury prone catcher/1st baseman next time we are competing. I am not say we will make it to the promised land if we trade Lucroy. Because it is very possible we never do just like if we keep Lucroy.

 

The reason we had such horrible catchers before is because we didn't have any in the minors AND we didn't want to pay for one. If you are going to overpay for Lucroy to be around now why not just wait and overspend on a catcher in 3-4 years from now while taking elite prospects today? I really do not think in 4 years it will be that hard to find someone just as good or close to a 33-34 year old Lucroy. Lucroy's offense will decline notably by then and I'd personally be thrilled if he was still at catcher full time. For the $16mil we would have to pay Lucroy you really don't think we could find someone similar?

 

How is the Houston/Chicago model any different than how Milwaukee built it's last contending team? Or any different than Pittsburgh attempted about five times before they finally got it right. Don't get me wrong I think we have to rebuild to an extent. I just don't know if it makes any more sense to trade everyone and anyone than it does to try to retain some of them and build a competitive team in less than the five year plus total rebuild mode. Both Chicago and Houston have their holes as well. Thus the need to sign Lester or trade for Gomez. I also wonder if the future is any brighter for those two franchises than it was for Milwaukee in 2008 if they can't buy what they failed to draft and develop. An injury or two to the wrong players would set back a five year rebuild back as far as a two or three year one would.