2015 World Series: Mets vs. Royals [Royals win World Championship, four games to one]

[LouisEly]

The catapult that put the Royals from ascending and into a contender was trading their best player (Greinke) for a load of players. 2 of those players turn into studs.

They also gave up a lot of pitching prospects for two players who helped them a lot down the stretch and in the post-season.

 

While Cueto was up and down, he helped the Royals move Guthrie (and his 5.95 ERA) out of the rotation, and Zobrist allowed them to send Infante (and his .552 OPS) to the bench. They knew what their weakest positions were and turned them into strengths by giving up pitching prospects.

[dlk9s]

I wouldn't really call Escobar a "stud."

 

Cain, obviously, is an MVP-caliber player. He's the one guy that when the trade went down, I thought to myself, "We're going to miss him." But hey, we got a Cy Young candidate, they got an MVP candidate. We also came close to a championship.

[Thurston Fluff]

How do I rectify my support for a fellow small market franchise while simultaneously dealing with the realization that Ned Yost just won a WS before the Brewers did?

 

By admitting he might not have been as bad at his job as you thought he was. Personally I was always a Ned supporter. Then again I never thought in-game management, which definitely isn't his strength, was not all that important. I think the fact he lead the team to two consecutive WS appearances and won one supports that belief. You don't luck your way into two consecutive World Series appearances nor is the team so unbelievably talented that it could do so despite him.

[pacopete4]

How do I rectify my support for a fellow small market franchise while simultaneously dealing with the realization that Ned Yost just won a WS before the Brewers did?

 

By admitting he might not have been as bad at his job as you thought he was. Personally I was always a Ned supporter. Then again I never thought in-game management, which definitely isn't his strength, was not all that important. I think the fact he lead the team to two consecutive WS appearances and won one supports that belief. You don't luck your way into two consecutive World Series appearances nor is the team so unbelievably talented that it could do so despite him.

 

 

Exactly this. One thing about baseball people that bothers me is that the majority always feel like there is one right way and the rest are wrong ways to manage a baseball team. It has been proven, over and over, that there are all kinds of managers that win. It can be done. Yes, are having good players more important? You betcha! But this [expletive deleted by moderator] motto of knocking a guy because he has a different philosophy is for the birds. Congrats to Ned and the Royals.

[jerichoholicninja]

I read a stat that the Royals scored a bunch of runs after the 8th inning in the playoffs (don't remember exact numbers) which is why they were able to come back so many times. It could just be totally random that that happened but it probably has to do with the fact that they have a lineup of contact hitters. When you're facing guys in the late innings who strikeout 10-12 per 9 you need hitters who can make contact to counteract that. I don't think we're going to see a return to the days of slap hitters but I think the value of batters than can put the bat on the ball and still post respectable OBP and SLUG numbers will be going up.

[DocLuna7]

I wonder how this guy feels today? I would be kind of curious to get an update.

 

http://www.ncaatop25.com/auction.htm

[pacopete4]

I read a stat that the Royals scored a bunch of runs after the 8th inning in the playoffs (don't remember exact numbers) which is why they were able to come back so many times. It could just be totally random that that happened but it probably has to do with the fact that they have a lineup of contact hitters. When you're facing guys in the late innings who strikeout 10-12 per 9 you need hitters who can make contact to counteract that. I don't think we're going to see a return to the days of slap hitters but I think the value of batters than can put the bat on the ball and still post respectable OBP and SLUG numbers will be going up.

 

 

Outscored opponents 55-11, 7th or 8th inning and beyond. (I hope I have those numbers right. Hear it on Mike & Mike this morning)

[trwi7]

Yost badly outmanaged Collins throughout the series. With the days off Yost knew he could go to Herrera and Davis for multiple innings if needed and he did. Meanwhile, Collins would bring in Clippard to give up a few baserunners and then bring in Familia to try to work his way out of it. Not the worst idea if you have a Wade Davis facing a strikeout prone lineup but Familia is more groundball guy against the contact making Royals lineup playing against an awful Mets infield defense.

 

Bringing out Harvey for the 9th inning was bad enough. Leaving him in after the first runner reached base was even more ridiculous.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Great point...Familia winds up with the blown save record when arguably only one is solely on him. Collins put him in a tough spot and his infield defense did no favors behind him in the series.

 

Watching Collins make the move with Harvey last night is exactly why the stat heads are taking over the sport. A slightly above average reliever is probably a better bet than a stud starter who has already thrown 100+ pitches over 8 innings...and they had an exceptional reliever with a 2 run lead. That being said, knowing my own personality I'd have done the same thing...which is one of many reasons I'm unqualified for that job.

[3and2Fastball]

Was thrilled for Yost, Cain, Escobar and by default Wade Davis (part of the Odorizzi trade from KC to Tampa Bay)

 

And thrilled that Doug Melvin is no longer the Brewers GM

[LouisEly]

There is also this thing called "playoff experience". Almost everyone on the Royals has it from last year (Zobrist from prior years), including Yost. Few players on the Mets have it. You learn how to handle it because you've been there before. Sold-out stadiums, raucous fans, cameras everywhere... it's not the same as baseball in May. It's not the same as baseball in September.

 

I have believed for a while that talent gets you to the playoffs; talent + experience wins playoffs & championships. The last 20 World Series have been won by a total of 10 teams. The Royals got there last year... but lost to the experienced Giants. The Tigers got there in 2012... but lost to the experienced Giants. Young talented teams like the Rays and A's have gotten to the playoffs... but no rings to show for it. Say what you want about LaRussa, but he knows how to manage in the playoffs because he's been there before; that's how they beat the Brewers and Rangers in 2011.

 

"Not everything that can be counted counts; not everything that counts can be counted." - Albert Einstein

[trwi7]

If playoff experience mattered, then the A's would've beat the Royals in the wildcard last year. The Angels would've beat them in the ALDS and the Orioles would've beaten them in the ALCS.

 

The Dodgers would've beat the Mets in the NLDS and the Cardinals would've beaten the Cubs in the NLDS.

 

Talent wins/performs. There were so many inexperienced players (a lot of rookies) that played better than the veteran "been there before" guys that experience means nothing to me.

[danzig6767]

Was thrilled for Yost, Cain, Escobar and by default Wade Davis (part of the Odorizzi trade from KC to Tampa Bay)

Davis was also part of the Will Myers trade which Dayton Moore got killed over and Davis was the throw in compared to James Shields.

 

Sometimes you just don't know what's going to happen in major trades, including ones that initially look one sided. Often enough, it can be guys who were mainly thought to be the throw in to a trade who end up being the best player, while the key piece plays fairly mediocre.

 

Hell, in the Sabathia trade, it was Brantley who ended up being the best player Cleveland got and Cruz was largely thrown into the Texas trade. Stuff like that happens fairly often.

[danzig6767]

If playoff experience mattered, then the A's would've beat the Royals in the wildcard last year. The Angels would've beat them in the ALDS and the Orioles would've beaten them in the ALCS.

 

The Dodgers would've beat the Mets in the NLDS and the Cardinals would've beaten the Cubs in the NLDS.

 

Talent wins/performs. There were so many inexperienced players (a lot of rookies) that played better than the veteran "been there before" guys that experience means nothing to me.

There is also the randomness factor which can play a big factor at times. KC easily could have lost to Houston down 6-2 in the 8th inning and a bunch of seeing eye singles and a bad hop on a potential double play ball kept them alive.

 

FWIW, i'm not saying KC was a lucky champion. I thought they were very deserving of the title, but often teams need some luck on their way to a ring.

 

Going forward, yet again a playoff team with a top tier bullpen won it all. This is a trend, not a fluke.

 

Teams need a good rotation to get through the grind of a 162 game schedule and thus secure a berth into the playoffs, but i believe we've now reached a point in today's version of baseball where in the playoffs, having a top tier bullpen is nearly as important or maybe even as important as who your starters are so long a team has at least one really good starter.

[LouisEly]

If playoff experience mattered, then the A's would've beat the Royals in the wildcard last year.

[sarcasm]You're right, because there's no randomness in one game.[/sarcasm]

 

The Angels would've beat them in the ALDS

 

Because the last time the Angels were in the playoffs was six years before that? How many players are left over from that team?

 

and the Orioles would've beaten them in the ALCS.

 

Because the Orioles lost in the ALDS two seasons prior to that? They had no experience in the ALCS either.

 

The Dodgers would've beat the Mets in the NLDS and the Cardinals would've beaten the Cubs in the NLDS.

 

Talent wins/performs. There were so many inexperienced players (a lot of rookies) that played better than the veteran "been there before" guys that experience means nothing to me.

 

1) I'd say that Joe Maddon has quite a bit of playoff experience.

B) I'd say that Chris Young, Edinson Volquez, and Cueto outpitched Syndergaard, de Grom, Harvey, and Matz. Arguably the Mets best player was Granderson. (Yes, Conforto had two HRs, but other than that he didn't do much. Granderson drew four walks in addition to his three HRs.) I'd say that Perez, Gordon, and Zobrist outplayed d'Arnaud, Cespedes, and Flores.

 

If you would have read my post, I clearly said "talent + experience". Nowhere did I say "talent vs. experience", nowhere did I say "experience trumps significantly greater talent".

[EauClaireNWL]

Figured the Royals would win, just took a game less than I thought. :P Glad a lot of former Brewers were able to get a ring. Maybe one of these millienia, our franchise will finally get one.

[Thurston Fluff]

If playoff experience mattered, then the A's would've beat the Royals in the wildcard last year. The Angels would've beat them in the ALDS and the Orioles would've beaten them in the ALCS.

 

The Dodgers would've beat the Mets in the NLDS and the Cardinals would've beaten the Cubs in the NLDS.

 

Talent wins/performs. There were so many inexperienced players (a lot of rookies) that played better than the veteran "been there before" guys that experience means nothing to me.

There is also the randomness factor which can play a big factor at times. KC easily could have lost to Houston down 6-2 in the 8th inning and a bunch of seeing eye singles and a bad hop on a potential double play ball kept them alive.

 

FWIW, i'm not saying KC was a lucky champion. I thought they were very deserving of the title, but often teams need some luck on their way to a ring.

 

Going forward, yet again a playoff team with a top tier bullpen won it all. This is a trend, not a fluke.

 

Teams need a good rotation to get through the grind of a 162 game schedule and thus secure a berth into the playoffs, but i believe we've now reached a point in today's version of baseball where in the playoffs, having a top tier bullpen is nearly as important or maybe even as important as who your starters are so long a team has at least one really good starter.

 

I'm with you on that. I think part of it is the relievers are so much more used to being put in early and often than they used to be. Getting used a lot in the post season isn't as out of their regular routine.

[nate82]

It is rather comical what the Royals did because they play the exact same way that the Brewers have played the last few years with the same strategies.

 

When Sveum was a coach here he had the Brewers swinging early in the count if it was a hittable pitch. The same philosophy is being used by the Royals now. Sveum has the Royals freely swinging at pitches no matter what the count is. The Royals didn't take many pitches when the count was 2-0 or even 3-0 there were a lot of hacks at pitches that were in the zone. I still do not get why hitters take a perfectly good pitch to hit when up in the count 2-0 or 3-0. The only time you should be taking a strike in those counts are when a pitcher makes a pitchers pitch and you can't make solid contact on the pitch.

 

The Royals were also ambushing fastballs no matter what the count was. If the Royals hitters saw a fastball and it was in or near the zone they were swinging at it. This was another thing that Sveum preached in Milwaukee.

 

The next thing that the Royals did was they were very aggressive on the base paths. To tie the game in game 5 they were extremely aggressive with that tying run. The Royals were taking extra bases on almost every hit a lot of them worked but there were a few that if it was a Brewers player a lot on this board would be calling them stupid and that they don't have any baseball smarts when it comes to running the base paths. The aggressiveness of the Royals paid off and this is one of the reasons why they were able to beat the Mets.

 

Overall the Royals were the more aggressive team. They were more aggressive at the plate and more aggressive on the base paths. A lot of what the Royals have been doing is what the Brewers have been doing. I am not saying the Brewers are as good as the Royals as they are clearly are not but the past philosophy of the Brewers is very much an almost exact copy of what the Royals are doing now.

 

I really hope Counsell stops his passive running of the bases and returns to the more aggressive form that the Brewers were doing. If you want the passive base running then you need more power hitters in your lineup which means there is going to be more strike outs. I would rather have a team built like the Royals where you have more contact players mixed with some power hitters and use some more aggressive base running.

[StearnsFTW]

Why on Earth would anyone be happy for Yost? That makes zero sense to me.

[1992casey]

I like Ned because he's a good guy, so I'm happy for him in that sense. While I don't like a lot of what happened during games over the years, I can consider Ned the person and Ned the manager separately.

 

But I do think that this year, he managed the postseason well. As mentioned earlier, part of that is that he has a team that is more or less Ned-proof.

 

I only recall one head scratching move. I'd have to go through the box scores to be able to recall the particulars, but it involved his choice of a pinch hitter in a two out situation relatively early in the game. Still, that was the kind of move that would make the list of semi-reasonable options vs. being the kind of move that leaves one incredulous.

[StearnsFTW]

Yeah I guess that's fair. He definitely managed better this postseason as you said.

 

He's still a boob though.