2015 Championship Series: Blue Jays vs. Royals, Cubs vs. Mets (Royals, Mets advance to World Series)

[JohnBriggs12]

Let me take you young guys back to June of 1960. The Cubs had two much ballyhooed at the time debuts that month. One you all will know of course eventually became a Hall of Famer, Ron Santo.

 

The other was a young outfielder just out of high school by the name of Daniel Francis Murphy who went by Danny Murphy. Murphy made his debut on June 18, 1960 at the age of 17. That's right, 17. Not only did he appear in the game that day, he started in CF and led off. As you can imagine this made some headlines back then. He played 31 games and batted .120 before being sent to AA and also appeared in a few games the next couple years. The fact that he did get sent down makes me believe he didn't fall under bonus baby rules requiring the Cubs to keep him on the active roster. In 1963, at 21, this phenom who had been so hyped was traded to Houston and didn't resurface in the major leagues until 1969 as a relief pitcher for the cross town White Sox. After two non-descript seasons, his major league career was over.

 

So now we have another Daniel Murphy putting a hurt on the Cubs over 50 years later. Coincidence?

[LouisEly]

Buehrle has a bum shoulder - .896 OPS-A in Sept/Oct.

[DocLuna7]

I'm really wondering why the Jays didn't relieve David Price well before he completed the task of giving up the three run lead in the 7th.

With Cecil injured the Jays only have one LHP in the bullpen. They have to be judicious as to when to use Loup. They kept Price in to face the Royals' LH hitters Hosmer, Moustakas, and Gordon.

 

Why hasn't Buehrle been added as a lefty out of the bullpen? He doesn't have "reliever stuff" but he throws strikes.

 

 

The whole Buehrle situation seems strange to me. He's injured to the point that he's not on the postseason roster but they let him start the final day of the season to reach some contract benchmark but in so doing lose home field advantage?

[1992casey]

Royals vs. Blue Jays, Game 3

 

Royals

1. SS Alcides Escobar ®
   
2. 2B Ben Zobrist (S)
   
3. CF Lorenzo Cain ®
   
4. 1B Eric Hosmer (L)
   
5. DH Kendrys Morales (S)
   
6. 3B Mike Moustakas (L)
   
7. C Salvador Pérez ®
   
8. LF Alex Gordon (L)
   
9. RF Alex Ríos ®

 

 

Blue Jays

1. LF Ben Revere (L)
   
2. 3B Josh Donaldson ®
   
3. RF José Bautista ®
   
4. DH Edwin Encarnacion ®
   
5. 1B Chris Colabello ®
   
6. SS Troy Tulowitzki ®
   
7. C Russell Martin ®
   
8. CF Kevin Pillar ®
   
9. 2B Ryan Goins (L)

[1992casey]

Royals vs. Blue Jays, Game 4 (same as yesterday)

 

Royals

1. SS Alcides Escobar ®
   
2. 2B Ben Zobrist (S)
   
3. CF Lorenzo Cain ®
   
4. 1B Eric Hosmer (L)
   
5. DH Kendrys Morales (S)
   
6. 3B Mike Moustakas (L)
   
7. C Salvador Pérez ®
   
8. LF Alex Gordon (L)
   
9. RF Alex Ríos ®

 

 

Blue Jays

1. LF Ben Revere (L)
   
2. 3B Josh Donaldson ®
   
3. RF José Bautista ®
   
4. DH Edwin Encarnacion ®
   
5. 1B Chris Colabello ®
   
6. SS Troy Tulowitzki ®
   
7. C Russell Martin ®
   
8. CF Kevin Pillar ®
   
9. 2B Ryan Goins (L)

[1992casey]

Mets vs. Cubs, Game 3

 

Mets

1. RF Curtis Granderson (L)
   
2. 3B David Wright ®
   
3. 2B Daniel Murphy (L)
   
4. CF Yoenis Céspedes ®
   
5. 1B Lucas Duda (L)
   
6. C Travis d'Arnaud ®
   
7. LF Michael Conforto (L)
   
8. SS Wilmer Flores ®
   
9. RHP Jacob deGrom (L)

 

Cubs

1. CF Dexter Fowler (S)
   
2. LF Kyle Schwarber (L)
   
3. 3B Kris Bryant ®
   
4. 1B Anthony Rizzo (L)
   
5. 2B Starlin Castro ®
   
6. RF Jorge Soler ®
   
7. C Miguel Montero (L)
   
8. RHP Kyle Hendricks ®
   
9. SS Javier Báez ®

[trwi7]

Who else saw Hannibal Buress at the Cubs game?

[The stache]

Boy, I wouldn't want to face this Mets rotation next year. Matt Harvey, Noah Syndergaard, Jacob de Grom, Steven Matz. And if Zack Wheeler is healthy, good lord, that's one of the sickest five man rotations I've ever seen. Every one of those guys has at least a #2 starter potential.

[trwi7]

Boy, I wouldn't want to face this Mets rotation next year. Matt Harvey, Noah Syndergaard, Jacob de Grom, Steven Matz. And if Zack Wheeler is healthy, good lord, that's one of the sickest five man rotations I've ever seen. Every one of those guys has at least a #2 starter potential.

 

Yeah and the way they've acquired them is amazing.

 

Harvey - 7th overall pick

deGrom - 272nd overall pick (9th round)

Matz - 72nd overall pick (2nd round)

Wheeler - acquired for Carlos Beltran

Syndergaard - acquired for R.A. Dickey

[jerichoholicninja]

Boy, I wouldn't want to face this Mets rotation next year. Matt Harvey, Noah Syndergaard, Jacob de Grom, Steven Matz. And if Zack Wheeler is healthy, good lord, that's one of the sickest five man rotations I've ever seen. Every one of those guys has at least a #2 starter potential.

 

You could look at it that way or look at it as a team ripe for TJ devastation. Harvey, deGrom, and Wheeler have all had it already I think so they're looking at round 2. Plus it will be interesting to see how Harvey does next year since he's sort of in uncharted waters with his innings coming off Tommy John. Take any 2 of those guys out of that rotation and, barring any major offseason upgrades, all you've got left is an OK rotation and an underwhelming offense.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Call me crazy, but are the Cubs going to have to trade Schwarber? From an offensive standpoint, I can't think of too many young hitters I'd want in my lineup before him...but what position does he play for an NL team, particularly one that has Rizzo at 1st and a player like Soler that should be an everyday RF? He's clown college in corner OF positions, and frankly there's no chance of him being able to catch on an everyday basis.

 

I'm sure it will never happen and he'll get every opportunity to "develop" into more than a softball beer league left fielder, simply because he appears to be an unbelievably talented hitter...but he looks worse than mid 30's Manny Ramirez playing out there right now.

[TURBO]

Boy, I wouldn't want to face this Mets rotation next year. Matt Harvey, Noah Syndergaard, Jacob de Grom, Steven Matz. And if Zack Wheeler is healthy, good lord, that's one of the sickest five man rotations I've ever seen. Every one of those guys has at least a #2 starter potential.

 

You could look at it that way or look at it as a team ripe for TJ devastation. Harvey, deGrom, and Wheeler have all had it already I think so they're looking at round 2. Plus it will be interesting to see how Harvey does next year since he's sort of in uncharted waters with his innings coming off Tommy John. Take any 2 of those guys out of that rotation and, barring any major offseason upgrades, all you've got left is an OK rotation and an underwhelming offense.

 

Sounds like you are looking for a negative take, that rotation is just plain filthy! If they stay healthy, and add some bats to that line-up, that team could win a few WS in the next 5 years. I'm sure it is a lot of fun to be a Mets fan right now...

[JohnBriggs12]

Maddon cost the Cubs last night. No reason to take Hendricks out of game with score tied 2-2 after just 4 innings. Would he do that in June? Of course not. Especially when you replace him with the castoffs that the Cubs have in middle relief like Richard, Cahill, and Wood. If those guys are better than Hendricks, then they would be starting as all of those guys were starters for most of their careers. He'll likely make the same mistake tonight with Hammel.

 

Take heart Brewer fans, if the Crew can ever get into a playoff series against Maddon's Cubs, it's likely he's going to overthink his pitching and turn into Tony LaRussa.

[bill hAll Star]

Those castoffs did fine and probably are decent middle relievers. The defense was crap for the Cubs, the run scored on Cahill was a bit of a fluke on a swinging strike 3...granted, right after the Cubs got lucky to not allow more with the ivy play, but the OF shouldn't have even dove for the ball, so again, the Cubs defense.

 

The 2 runs were scored on Justin Grimm, who has been a good reliever all year, once again surrounded by crappy defense.

 

Hendricks seemed like he was getting smoked with the wind blowing out. He was a few Mets' baserunning themselves out of innings away from giving up 4 runs over those innings.

[jerichoholicninja]

Boy, I wouldn't want to face this Mets rotation next year. Matt Harvey, Noah Syndergaard, Jacob de Grom, Steven Matz. And if Zack Wheeler is healthy, good lord, that's one of the sickest five man rotations I've ever seen. Every one of those guys has at least a #2 starter potential.

 

You could look at it that way or look at it as a team ripe for TJ devastation. Harvey, deGrom, and Wheeler have all had it already I think so they're looking at round 2. Plus it will be interesting to see how Harvey does next year since he's sort of in uncharted waters with his innings coming off Tommy John. Take any 2 of those guys out of that rotation and, barring any major offseason upgrades, all you've got left is an OK rotation and an underwhelming offense.

 

Sounds like you are looking for a negative take, that rotation is just plain filthy! If they stay healthy, and add some bats to that line-up, that team could win a few WS in the next 5 years. I'm sure it is a lot of fun to be a Mets fan right now...

 

I am looking for the negative take. Having a stacked rotation doesn't mean much. Look at the Nationals this season, and they didn't even have injuries.

 

You have 3 young pitchers that were ridden hard this year in deGrom, Harvey, and Syndergaard - two of whom already had TJ and another in Matz who was injured a couple times and then Wheeler coming back from TJ. Of course if the Brewers had that rotation I would be ecstatic but Syndergaard has thrown 60 more innings this year than he ever has before and Harvey's thrown 30ish more innings that he's ever had before and he's just off of TJ. I just see the very real possibility that some of these guys get injured or are much less effective next season. Which is unfortunate that that's what happens to pitchers these days. I don't think we'll ever see another Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Avery, Millwood pitching dynasty because pitchers just don't stay healthy long enough for that to happen.

[bill hAll Star]

I had a similar thought of the negative angle of their rotation recently.

 

That said, they have 3-5 more years on all of these guys until they become free agents. Sure, you're probably going to lose 1 of them per year to arm issues, but you've still got 4 really good pitchers then.

 

Even though the Mets are a big market, I would not keep really any of these guys around for their 2nd contract. I'd keep just drafting a ton of high-upside pitching and developing it. I'd overspend to get offense (guys that are all at least decent defenders, though).

 

I'm going to list 6 pitchers because let's assume 1 TJ/shoulder issue each year.

 

2016: Harvey, deGrom, Wheeler (returns mid-season), Thor, Matz, Niese

2017: Harvey, deGrom, Wheeler, Thor, Matz, stopgap vet

2018: Harvey, deGrom, Wheeler, Thor, Matz, new prospect A

2019: deGrom, Wheeler, Thor, Matz, new prospect A

2020: deGrom, Thor, Matz, new prospect A, stopgap vet

2021: Thor, Matz, new prospect A, stopgap vet, prospect B

2022: Would look new unless they choose to pay Thor/Matz

 

Yes, there is the Cubs scenario where Prior/Wood are just done, but barring that, they could have 4 of these guys in the rotation every year (with a lucky year or two where they have 5) for the next 5-6 years while they can just try to keep grooming prospects to fill in if necessary, even if you assume a guy sits out all year getting TJ. They even have guys like Montero who throws some gas but isn't a complete stud prospect waiting around for depth.

[TURBO]

I am looking for the negative take. Having a stacked rotation doesn't mean much. Look at the Nationals this season, and they didn't even have injuries.

 

 

Actually, Strasburg was hurt a LOT this season, and before he finally admitted his injury, or his injury was discovered, he was pitching horribly...

[1992casey]

Royals vs. Blue Jays, Game 5

 

Royals

1. SS Alcides Escobar ®
   
2. 2B Ben Zobrist (S)
   
3. CF Lorenzo Cain ®
   
4. 1B Eric Hosmer (L)
   
5. DH Kendrys Morales (S)
   
6. 3B Mike Moustakas (L)
   
7. C Salvador Pérez ®
   
8. LF Alex Gordon (L)
   
9. RF Alex Ríos ®

 

Blue Jays

1. LF Ben Revere (L)
   
2. 3B Josh Donaldson ®
   
3. RF José Bautista ®
   
4. DH Edwin Encarnacion ®
   
5. 1B Chris Colabello ®
   
6. SS Troy Tulowitzki ®
   
7. C Dioner Navarro (S)
   
8. CF Kevin Pillar ®
   
9. 2B Ryan Goins (L)

[1992casey]

Mets vs. Cubs, Game 4

 

Mets

1. RF Curtis Granderson (L)
   
2. 3B David Wright ®
   
3. 2B Daniel Murphy (L)
   
4. CF Yoenis Céspedes ®
   
5. 1B Lucas Duda (L)
   
6. C Travis d'Arnaud ®
   
7. LF Michael Conforto (L)
   
8. SS Wilmer Flores ®
   
9. LHP Steven Matz ®

 

Cubs

1. CF Dexter Fowler (S)
   
2. RF Jorge Soler ®
   
3. 3B Kris Bryant ®
   
4. 1B Anthony Rizzo (L)
   
5. 2B Starlin Castro ®
   
6. LF Kyle Schwarber (L)
   
7. SS Javier Báez ®
   
8. RHP Jason Hammel ®
   
9. C David Ross ®

[Polish Falcons]

I don't see why Matz gets pulled after 4 1/3 innings after giving up 1 run on 75 pitches. He just gave up two singles of which one should have been called an error (if mlb actually called balls hit in outfield errors). I don't doubt Colon can get it done as well but let the kid pitch.

[danzig6767]

Absolutely unbelievable, Murphy goes yard again for the 6th straight game to put the Mets up 8-1 and he's also 4-5 on the night.

[DocLuna7]

Absolutely unbelievable, Murphy goes yard again for the 6th straight game to put the Mets up 8-1 and he's also 4-5 on the night.

 

It really is nuts Danzig. I am in awe as to how some guys can just flip a switch and become superhuman once the playoffs begin. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I love seeing the dejected look on those people's faces at Wrigley Field.

[AKCheesehead]

I am just relieved that at least I don't have to suffer through seeing the cubs or the cards go to the WS. Now I can just simply root for good baseball.

[Roderick]

I am just relieved that at least I don't have to suffer through seeing the cubs or the cards go to the WS. Now I can just simply root for good baseball.

 

Well I didn't really want to root for the Mets either after jerking us around on the Gomez trade (even if it worked out for the better), but lesser of two evils.

[JohnBriggs12]

Brewers back in first place! All division rivals vanquished! Cub fans I'm in the midst of silenced. It's a good day!