Jason Rogers at 1B next year?

[trwi7]

His trade value won't be any lower next July than it will be in December

 

Yes it will, just for the sole fact that if a team trades for him in December they could offer him the QO after the season if he has a good season. If they trade for him in July, they can't. That's pretty huge when factoring in value.

[FVBrewerFan]

I don't think there's any reason to think the Brewers actually want to move Lucroy or Braun to 1B.

 

There are reasons. With Lucroy, it's a real concern about concussions if he remains a catcher. As for Braun, you have a lot corner OF types either here now, or on the way shortly. Not room for all of them. Plus, he has his own health issues.

[MNBrew]

You're projecting your concerns onto the Brewers. There's no way to know for sure their thinking aligns with yours. That's what many are doing, especially on boards like this, which was my whole point.

 

Off the top of my head (no pun intended), I don't think Lucroy's got a history of concussions.

[monty57]

Many folks on this site advocate for it, but this is about the only sort of place it comes up -- and obviously it comes up a lot, as some posters are convinced that Braun (most especially) moving there is an inevitability and that it should happen sooner than later. But I have a hard time as seeing it as anything other than a group-think phenomenon that just spirals on itself.

 

I agree, and I was never a proponent of moving Braun to 1B. The only reason I mention it now is that Lind should be traded since he's going into his final contract year, the Brewers are in rebuild mode, and he should bring back a decent return as a proven LH power bat coming off a healthy season. That would leave 1B up for grabs. Santana has been thrown into CF, but he's really a corner OF, so do we continue to play him out of position in one of the most important defensive positions in order to give Rogers playing time, or do we move him or Braun to first base? Plus, Phillips is very likely to take over in CF at some point next year, knocking Santana out of center, and if someone is going to change from OF to 1B, I would rather have that happen in the offseason when they have a chance to practice the new position rather than trying to learn on the fly mid-season.

 

Additionally, as FVBrewer mentioned, we still have a bunch of OFs in the minors. I don't know if Braun would be a good first baseman, or even if he would be willing to make the move, but he could be a long term answer at first, where we don't have a lot of prospects, opening up the corner OF for Davis and Santana (for now), and our other corner OF prospects in the future.

 

Of course, this could also be settled if Braun or Davis is traded this offseason.

[pacopete4]

I am all for moving Lind for another package of prospects or even just one really good one and a few fringe guys. Let Rogers have a crack at a full season in the bigs. We say we love Lind's approach at the plate well Rogers might be the right handed version of that. He's cheap and controllable during this lull of years to compete.

[gregmag]

I've advocated moving Braun to 1b for the last year and a half, and for better or worse I'm not succumbing to groupthink. Dismissing an argument you don't like as groupthink both insults other posters and suggests (inaccurately, I'm sure) that you lack the insight to analyze the argument on its merits.

 

I think moving Braun to 1b makes more sense than ever now:

 

1. Santana should play every day, and his likeliest position of success is rf.

 

2. We should trade Lind now because, as others have stated, his value is likely at its peak now, and one way or another he isn't our future.

 

3. We have a ton of outfielders in the pipeline. Reed's up now; Phillips will be at AAA next year; Coulter won't be far behind them. Fitting Braun's bat in where we don't have anyone else would maximize our offensive potential and our flexibility in trying the young guys.

 

4. As for the thread topic, Rogers doesn't realistically project as a MLB regular. I love him, and I think he has shown a lot this year. He belongs in the big leagues. But he has put up his great numbers in a limited sample, with a heavy platoon advantage. He's also 27 already, which means he's unlikely to improve. I want him as a bench bat. I'm not saying using him as a stopgap 1b would be stupid; I'm just saying it isn't our best option. He's not worth building around. I'd much rather try Reed as a regular in cf or lf than Rogers at 1b.

 

5. Braun isn't a good outfielder. He'd probably be better back in LF, but it's not like giving up his of defense is a loss.

 

6. The best counter I can think of is that we could trade Davis and put Braun back in lf. I'm comfortable trading Davis, and that would open up a hole in the outfield. But it likely would only be a one-year hole, because of the prospect pipeline, and we could fill the hole for a year easily enough. If we traded Davis, I would still eventually want Braun at 1b, but I could see the argument for waiting a year. The problem, though, is that in that scenario we would optimally move him twice in two years (to lf, then to 1b). That's fine with me, but he might reasonably object.

[Roderick]

 

4. As for the thread topic, Rogers doesn't realistically project as a MLB regular. I love him, and I think he has shown a lot this year. He belongs in the big leagues. But he has put up his great numbers in a limited sample, with a heavy platoon advantage.

 

Rogers has basically the same amount of at bats vs lefty and righty in the majors this year (small sample size). His OPS is actually .906 vs righties and .754 vs lefties.

 

My preference is the Braun to 1B move, but I don't know if he would want to move (or if the Brewers would even ask). So assuming that, I would vote for the trade Lind and use Rogers at 1B scenario.

[gregmag]

I just meant that he has had a disproportionate number of his PAs against lefties -- nearly half, which is a lot more than he'd see as an everyday guy unless we're talking about a platoon. But I hadn't seen how much of a reverse platoon split he had. Like you said, small sample, but good catch nonetheless.

[1992casey]

I'm fine with Rogers at 1B next year, but right now, I don't see him as a long term solution. Of course, that opinion could change if he mans the position successfully over the course of a season. Its also possible that regular playing time could build up his trade value. He isn't young anymore, but he's still cheap and controllable.

[SoCalBrewfan]

Braun also has a history in the infield, unlike any of our other outfielders, so if you were determined to move someone, he'd be the most likely to adapt quickly. I have suppressed memories of Braun at third, but I thought his issues were mostly with throwing / footwork, which would be less an issue at first.

 

I don't know whether there's any concerns that first base might be bad for Braun's health, though...it might be that back or thumb would be more endangered there?

 

Rogers is never going to be a top tier starter, but he could hold down the fort while we waited for a better option.

 

I would indeed look to trade Lind this offseason. He should have more value now because a team will have him for a full year and can plan their roster with him in mind...a contending team is unlikely to deal a major leaguer during the season, but could do so in the offseason when they can make other moves to fill a hole. (Say, if we can find a young 3b option...?) He's not a slam dunk for a QO, but an offseason deal allows the team that trades for him to offer him if they choose...and so I'd want to negotiate as though he were getting a QO, and get more than the equivalent of a late first round pick.

[logan82]

I think moving Braun makes even less sense now than it did at the start of the year. The guy has core injuries every year. How will reaching and bending often every game work out?

[jerichoholicninja]

Kris Bryant played 4 positions in a game a few nights ago. I'm not saying that you can just move any guy where ever you want but clubs need to get out of this mindset that players can only play one position at a time. If you are a non-1B infielder, you should be able to play passably at any position other than catcher in a pinch. A small market team like the Brewers, especially, should develop versatile players. Scooter probably doesn't have the bat to be an everyday major leaguer but he should see some time in the OF this spring, probably even 3B. Same with pretty much every other infielder on the roster other than Arcia.

[MNBrew]

Braun also has a history in the infield, unlike any of our other outfielders, so if you were determined to move someone, he'd be the most likely to adapt quickly. I have suppressed memories of Braun at third, but I thought his issues were mostly with throwing / footwork, which would be less an issue at first.

 

I don't know whether there's any concerns that first base might be bad for Braun's health, though...it might be that back or thumb would be more endangered there?

 

Rogers is never going to be a top tier starter, but he could hold down the fort while we waited for a better option.

 

I would indeed look to trade Lind this offseason. He should have more value now because a team will have him for a full year and can plan their roster with him in mind...a contending team is unlikely to deal a major leaguer during the season, but could do so in the offseason when they can make other moves to fill a hole. (Say, if we can find a young 3b option...?) He's not a slam dunk for a QO, but an offseason deal allows the team that trades for him to offer him if they choose...and so I'd want to negotiate as though he were getting a QO, and get more than the equivalent of a late first round pick.

It's because of Braun's history in the IF that they moved him to the OF. It was an absolute no-brainer at the time and there's a huge reason they've never looked back on the decision in spite of major problems filling both 1B (2013-14) and 3B (much of 2015, injuries or post-Ramirez) at crucial times with competent big leaguers: his defense was comprehensively awful -- not just bad, but awful.

[tmwiese55]

Braun also has a history in the infield, unlike any of our other outfielders, so if you were determined to move someone, he'd be the most likely to adapt quickly. I have suppressed memories of Braun at third, but I thought his issues were mostly with throwing / footwork, which would be less an issue at first.

 

I don't know whether there's any concerns that first base might be bad for Braun's health, though...it might be that back or thumb would be more endangered there?

 

Rogers is never going to be a top tier starter, but he could hold down the fort while we waited for a better option.

 

I would indeed look to trade Lind this offseason. He should have more value now because a team will have him for a full year and can plan their roster with him in mind...a contending team is unlikely to deal a major leaguer during the season, but could do so in the offseason when they can make other moves to fill a hole. (Say, if we can find a young 3b option...?) He's not a slam dunk for a QO, but an offseason deal allows the team that trades for him to offer him if they choose...and so I'd want to negotiate as though he were getting a QO, and get more than the equivalent of a late first round pick.

It's because of Braun's history in the IF that they moved him to the OF. It was an absolute no-brainer at the time and there's a huge reason they've never looked back on the decision in spite of major problems filling both 1B (2013-14) and 3B (much of 2015, injuries or post-Ramirez) at crucial times with competent big leaguers: his defense was comprehensively awful -- not just bad, but awful.

 

That's not untrue. But 1B is different than 3B, drastically different. To me the worry would be more about the injury things, all the bending/stretching might actually be worse than playing OF for him. I have no doubt he could play a passable 1B, at the very least the same level as Prince and I would wager he'd be better than Prince.

[JohnBriggs12]

What bothers me about Counsell's statement "we've explored Rogers at 3B" is that the exploration amounted to like 2 games. They never let him settle in there over a 20 or 25 game stretch. It's the same thing with the plan to let Gennett face lefties. He got all of 2 starts against them in April when he wasn't hitting anyone, and then they completely went away from it. Talk about making decisions based on small sample sizes. Geesh.

 

If they find a LH hitting guy with pop to play 3B, sure then Rogers to 1B full time makes sense. Otherwise if Lind gets dealt, I think they need to find another lefty hitting 1B who can platoon there with Rogers. I just started a thread in rumor section about Logan Morrison being one possibility.

[Baldkin]

What bothers me about Counsell's statement "we've explored Rogers at 3B" is that the exploration amounted to like 2 games. They never let him settle in there over a 20 or 25 game stretch. It's the same thing with the plan to let Gennett face lefties. He got all of 2 starts against them in April when he wasn't hitting anyone, and then they completely went away from it. Talk about making decisions based on small sample sizes. Geesh.

 

If they find a LH hitting guy with pop to play 3B, sure then Rogers to 1B full time makes sense. Otherwise if Lind gets dealt, I think they need to find another lefty hitting 1B who can platoon there with Rogers. I just started a thread in rumor section about Logan Morrison being one possibility.

 

Exploring doesn't have to be live game situations. If the guy can't move his feet or field ground balls in practice, he won't magically do it in games.

[1992casey]

Jason played 1,022 innings at 3B in 2014, so the Brewers have that information to work with. It wouldn't surprise me if Craig got to see him in person during that time.

[Brewser5]

For all the talk of Braun being moved to first base, I really don't think that will happen. The Brewers have had multiple opportunities to do that over his career and they have not even tried it. With Lucroy they at least have him practicing over there and playing in a couple games to get comfortable. Don't forget how terrible Braun was at 3B. I know a lot of his problems were with throwing, but 1B is not as easy as people make it out to be. One of my favorite movie quotes of all time regarding 1B, "It's not that hard, Scott. Tell him, Wash.....It's incredibly hard."

 

I believe Rodgers will be the 1B next year. He has proven that he belongs with the bat and giving him a shot at 1B in a rebuilding year is not a terrible idea. He will also get some relief from Lucroy and Clark.

 

I like the idea of trading KD and moving Braun back to LF. Although it may not happen this off season, when Phillips/Coulter/Etc. are ready to go I like the move.

[FVBrewerFan]

For all the talk of Braun being moved to first base, I really don't think that will happen. The Brewers have had multiple opportunities to do that over his career and they have not even tried it.

 

The difference is, they haven't had anyone pushing him in RF/LK until now. I don't think it's necessary next season, as I'm fine with giving Rogers the chance and Santana can get plenty of ABs playing CF, some games in the corner OF.

 

Issue may come in 2017 when you COULD have K Davis, Santana, Phillips, Coulter, and possibly Taylor and Roache ready to play the OF. Plus, with Braun's back, abs, whatever other issues he has, it just makes sense to consider this move.

[DuWayne Steurer]

What bothers me about Counsell's statement "we've explored Rogers at 3B" is that the exploration amounted to like 2 games. They never let him settle in there over a 20 or 25 game stretch. It's the same thing with the plan to let Gennett face lefties. He got all of 2 starts against them in April when he wasn't hitting anyone, and then they completely went away from it. Talk about making decisions based on small sample sizes. Geesh.

 

If they find a LH hitting guy with pop to play 3B, sure then Rogers to 1B full time makes sense. Otherwise if Lind gets dealt, I think they need to find another lefty hitting 1B who can platoon there with Rogers. I just started a thread in rumor section about Logan Morrison being one possibility.

 

 

Going into a season in which they are almost certain to be a non-factor for contention, the handed-ness of your lineup should be about #79 on your "things to worry about in the off-season".

[tmwiese55]

RoCo, I thought the same thing. we're not worried about winning anyway so who cares. You could factor it into what prospects to target in trades but for next season's roster who cares.

[DSFastball55]

I read somewhere that Rogers is planning to play 3B in winter ball this year, in hopes of showing the Brewers he can play it at the MLB level. Of course I can't find it now, so not sure where that came from.

[CheezWizHed]

Depending on Braun's core/back issue, running in the OF could be worse than bending over at 1B.

[MNBrew]

Jason played 1,022 innings at 3B in 2014, so the Brewers have that information to work with. It wouldn't surprise me if Craig got to see him in person during that time.

To elaborate, in the minors in 2014, he ONLY played 3B -- ZERO at 1B, zero in LF. That was 122 games, 1,022 innings, entirely at 3B.

 

If it went that badly in the minors that the Brewers don't feel safe putting him at 3B with any regularity, they certainly had ample justification.

[Crash2303]

I think you let Rogers start out next season as the starting 1B, he has played well enough for the Crew to give him an extended look next year and see what they have in him. I think keeping Shane Peterson as our 4/5 OF makes sense, because he is a left-handed bat who can platoon with Rogers (if need be) at 1B.

 

furthermore, if by June Rogers has shown that September was a flash in the pan, we can move LuCroy over to 1B and keep Maldy/(Weisenburger/Centeno/Ashley) at catcher.