3B?

[reillymcshane]

My thought would be to trade Garza and $6M for Chris Johnson. Then trade Khris Davis to Seattle for Patrick Kivlehan. Johnson can fill in until Kivlehan is ready to take over full time. Davis and Garza are both expendable with the emergence of Santana and Davies. All teams get better from this trade.

Johnson is pretty awful. Sub-par defense, horrible walk rate (sub-5.0 for his career), mediocre power, and he doesn't even hit for average anymore (.250-.260ish the last couple of years). He had a nice year in 2013, but the last couple of years he's been bad. At 31, he's not going to get better.

 

I don't know much about Johnson's salary, so maybe there's a good savings from this, but I would much rather find someone else to take a shot at the position than a guy like Johnson.

[jvrocksaz]

Anyone remember Josh Vitters? What happened there with him? Looks like he is a free agent these days...

 

He is and always has been terrible.

 

Yep... Even with a slash line of .304/.356/.513 with 17 HR's in 452 AB's as a 22 year old in AAA.

[ewitkows]

Maybe look at the Yankees , Eric Jagielo is at AA. He's been snakebitten with injuries but he can hit and has some power. Not sure if he's going to stick at 3rd defensively but if not he could be a 1b.

[brewmann04]

Think the crew needs to look at 3rd baseman.

[Roderick]

So much can happen in the next few years. I wouldn't be dying to strip away depth at another spot or trade pitching away to fill a hole when we shouldn't be worried about contending for a few years. We could find our next McGehee at 3B, we could draft a college 3B that is almost ready, we could net a 3B in a Lind trade, etc.

 

Even if all roads fail and the team is young and ready to be good in 2018, you can overspend on some stopgap vets to platoon there.

 

We know we have no prospect at 3B. I have expectations that our pitching staff will be young, cheap and decent for 2017 and beyond even if one of the prospects is traded away. I wouldn't trade an arm for a SS or OF, but I would have no problem taking an arm to fill a glaring hole like 3B.

 

The same logic you use could be applied if for some reason we are short of pitching and are ready to contend. We can overspend on a free agent pitcher.

[bill hAll Star]

The same logic you use could be applied if for some reason we are short of pitching and are ready to contend. We can overspend on a free agent pitcher.

 

Not impossible, but much harder to do.

 

Look at the Mets. Sure, they got 38 games of a pretty good David Wright performance this year, but they cobbled together 3B out of a bunch of free agents/dump-offs at the deadline/etc. and Wright has been nothing special on offense at 3B in the postseason (this is not to rip him, but I'm just saying if there is a year or two of your contention window where you still need a 3B, you can string things along).

 

The Astros platooned Valbuena there this year with replacement-level righties. I just feel like one or two offensive positions are relatively easy to fill with platoons or smart management. I just see all of this talk of signing veterans because there is a hole or trading for touted prospects because there is a hole. The desperation to fill the hole will end up in a losing result.

[bill hAll Star]

That Chris Johnson contract was a major head-scratcher the moment it was signed. He had a Mcgehee-esque BABIP half-season and they signed him to I believe a 4 or 5 year deal for substantial money when he was subpar at every other aspect of the game otherwise.

 

He's never been an above-replacement player except for said stretch. I can see savings as reason to take the trade, but given that we won't be too active in free agency, unless the savings are being used to take a new risky/high-reward player on, I'd pass. Garza has been a valuable player in his career at many points. Do I see him ever hitting that again? Probably not. The chances of him getting there are much higher than Johnson, though. If he ever realizes that, he can be dealt for value.

[BrewBalls]

Even if we don't swap bad contracts with the Indians, I am still hoping we can trade Khris Davis and maybe someone like Ariel Pena for Patrick Kivlehan. It gives us a young prospect who spend all of 2015 in AAA and hit 22HR. I'm not sure if he can stick at 3B but if not he still gives us a young player with 6 yrs of team control who can play any of the corner four corner positions and still has some upside.

[bill hAll Star]

Kivlehan does look like a guy that figures it out a little while after he gets moved up...but a sub .800 OPS in the PCL is not very promising.

[JohnBriggs12]

Even if we don't swap bad contracts with the Indians, I am still hoping we can trade Khris Davis and maybe someone like Ariel Pena for Patrick Kivlehan. It gives us a young prospect who spend all of 2015 in AAA and hit 22HR. I'm not sure if he can stick at 3B but if not he still gives us a young player with 6 yrs of team control who can play any of the corner four corner positions and still has some upside.

 

Seriously, you'd give up a still controllable 30 HR guy and a solid bullpen arm at worst for a soon to be 26 year old who's never appeared in the major leagues and has a .911 career FP at 3B?

 

I wouldn't trade Hernan Perez straight up for Kivlehan. Perez has a much better glove, is younger and has at least shown some ability to hit major league pitching.

[pacopete4]

Even if we don't swap bad contracts with the Indians, I am still hoping we can trade Khris Davis and maybe someone like Ariel Pena for Patrick Kivlehan. It gives us a young prospect who spend all of 2015 in AAA and hit 22HR. I'm not sure if he can stick at 3B but if not he still gives us a young player with 6 yrs of team control who can play any of the corner four corner positions and still has some upside.

 

Seriously, you'd give up a still controllable 30 HR guy and a solid bullpen arm at worst for a soon to be 26 year old who's never appeared in the major leagues and has a .911 career FP at 3B?

 

I wouldn't trade Hernan Perez straight up for Kivlehan. Perez has a much better glove, is younger and has at least shown some ability to hit major league pitching.

 

It's just another example of way undervaluing what the Brewers truly have as players. While I would like to see a different player other than Davis in LF that doesn't mean he's not a good player.

 

Maybe on a team where he is not looked upon to hit anywhere below 6th -7th in the lineup, I'd love him, but when we are counting on him for constant production and his below average OF play just doesn't do it for me.

 

Either way, the trade proposal was very silly and if our current GM does this, he should be fired on the spot.

[JohnBriggs12]

Even if we don't swap bad contracts with the Indians, I am still hoping we can trade Khris Davis and maybe someone like Ariel Pena for Patrick Kivlehan. It gives us a young prospect who spend all of 2015 in AAA and hit 22HR. I'm not sure if he can stick at 3B but if not he still gives us a young player with 6 yrs of team control who can play any of the corner four corner positions and still has some upside.

 

Seriously, you'd give up a still controllable 30 HR guy and a solid bullpen arm at worst for a soon to be 26 year old who's never appeared in the major leagues and has a .911 career FP at 3B?

 

I wouldn't trade Hernan Perez straight up for Kivlehan. Perez has a much better glove, is younger and has at least shown some ability to hit major league pitching.

 

It's just another example of way undervaluing what the Brewers truly have as players. While I would like to see a different player other than Davis in LF that doesn't mean he's not a good player.

 

Maybe on a team where he is not looked upon to hit anywhere below 6th -7th in the lineup, I'd love him, but when we are counting on him for constant production and his below average OF play just doesn't do it for me.

 

Either way, the trade proposal was very silly and if our current GM does this, he should be fired on the spot.

 

LF was by far the most productive position on the Brewers last year. Would love to see where the Brewer LF production ranked in the NL. It had to be right near the top. Davis has some flaws, but he's not the reason this team was 26 games under .500 last year.

[DuWayne Steurer]

 

LF was by far the most productive position on the Brewers last year. Would love to see where the Brewer LF production ranked in the NL. It had to be right near the top. Davis has some flaws, but he's not the reason this team was 26 games under .500 last year.

 

Both FanGraphs and Baseball Reference think pretty poorly of Davis' defense. Enough to negate quite a bit of his offensive value. BR has him at a 0.8 overall WAR, FanGraphs was a little more generous, and rated him a 1.3 WAR. Over 150 games, he'd maybe eke out to just about a 2.0 WAR, and be a league average player between his offense, defense, and baserunning, but if the Brewers can get someone to over-pay for him based on his huge 2nd half surge, now is absolutely the time to strike.

[mertonmonk]

Davis certainly struggled earlier in his route efficiency, but he seemed to make good progress by the end of the season. He has at best an average arm and speed, so route efficiency is especially important for him. He might not be as good over the long haul as his amazing power burst was the last couple of months, but he's definitely a threat in the lineup. OFers are easier to come by that 3Bers, so if we can trade Davis for a similar-quality 3B player, that's a good deal. Between Reed, Santana and the upcoming Philips, we should be covered between LF and CF without Davis.

[reillymcshane]

I'm going to throw out a few names at 3B - mostly based on looking at scouting reports and stats. I'm looking at guys who we could potentially grab who have decent defensive reputations. If anyone has seen these guys, please add your opinions.

 

Christian Villanueva - 24 year old right handed hitting 3B - Cubs - good defender. Slow. Decent power - hit 20 HR last year, mostly at AAA. BA is nothing great - hit .259, .751 OPS - doesn't walk a lot. Had a poor 2014, but has mostly been a .260-.270ish hitter in the minors with around 18-20 HR. Blocked in Chicago, he could get a shot now in Mliwaukee. Probably is, at best, a .250 BA, 20 HR, good defense player.

 

Kaleb Cowart - 23 year old switch hitting 3B - Angels - #1 pick in 2010. Has had a non-descript career until hitting great in the second half of 2015 at AAA, even getting called up to big leagues for some ABs when Freese was out. Considered an excellent defender. He had an .805 OPS between A+ and AAA last year, but has generally not hit that well (usually around a .700-.750 OPS). Modest power, but is a bigger guy who could develop more pop. Right now, if things went decent, he probably would project hitting .260-.270 with 10-12 HR and excellent defense. May be ticketed by the Angels to replace Freese.

 

Kyle Kubitza - 25 year old left handed hitting 3B - Angels - Former Brave has always hit decent in the minors. Last year at AAA he hit .271 and had a .350+ OBP. His power dipped last year - only 7 HR, but he did hit 43 doubles. Struggled in a short stint in the big leagues. Considered a good defender. Scouts have always been a little concerned that his swing is too long. If things play out, he could be a .260-270ish hitter, take a decent amount of walks, hit 10-15HR, play solid defense. Like Cowart, he could compete for the 3B in LA this year.

 

Colin Moran - 23 year old left handed hitting 3B - Astros - Former #1 pick really took off last year after coming back from the DL. Ended up hititng over .300 at AA. Defense is average at best, but has always been considered to have a nice hit tool. Not a lot of power thus far, but the guy is still young. Very slow player. Houston has a nice 3B prospect in JD Davis right behind Moran who they might like better, so Moran may be a luxury. Right now, he could potentially be a good batting average, good on base percentage, modest power, average defense guy.

 

Just throwing out some names as potential 3B guys.

[logan82]

Colin Moran

Sounds like a Cardinal to me.

[JohnBriggs12]

All right he's a realistic proposal:

 

Adam Lind and Victor Roache to Rays for James Loney and Richie Shaffer.

 

Lind and Loney are a wash financially. Rays get slight upgrade offensively at 1B for 2016. Shaffer can play 3B, has versatility, has power and is more advanced than Roache. He's obviously blocked at 3B in TB. Brewers replace Lind's LH bat in lineup who also could have some value at the deadline.

[pacopete4]

If Shaffer is so good, why wouldn't they just play him at 1B over Loney and not make this trade?

[JohnBriggs12]

If Shaffer is so good, why wouldn't they just play him at 1B over Loney and not make this trade?

 

 

I don't see Shaffer as sure thing but he's a better fit for Brewers than Roache. Rays see themselves as contenders unlike the Brewers. Lind is an upgrade in power which is a Rays need in 2016. Shaffer's still a prospect and I don't see the Rays giving him the 1B job over Loney. Plus, Rays had 19 year old Jake Bauers playing 1B in AA last year. He's their 1B of the future.

[3and2Fastball]

Shaffer is an OK prospect. He is 24 and is not elite with either the bat or glove.

 

Loney is clearly in a decline that in his age 32 year could become a freefall. I want no part of taking in aging veterans and thankfully Searns hasn't shown any indication of wanting to do so either.

 

Colin Moran is a significant prospect still, he's just 22 and put up an .840 OPS in AA last year

 

I think that the player who might end up a significant part of the Brewers at 3B in 2018 (when they could contend again) likely hasn't even been drafted yet. I don't really care who plays 3B for the Brewers in 2016. Craig Counsell can do it for all I care

[Devinep]

Just because the Brewers won't be competitive this year and likely in 2017 doesn't mean that it doesn't matter whose playing. There should never be a wasted starter at any position. Starters should be either prospects trying to make it in the bigs, older guys who are proving trade value, placeholder to maintain a year of control on prospects in AAA, or buy-low candidates who are being gambled on. No bodies to yet take up space (unless the starters been traded and there's no one else).

[pacopete4]

Just because the Brewers won't be competitive this year and likely in 2017 doesn't mean that it doesn't matter whose playing. There should never be a wasted starter at any position. Starters should be either prospects trying to make it in the bigs, older guys who are proving trade value, placeholder to maintain a year of control on prospects in AAA, or buy-low candidates who are being gambled on. No bodies to yet take up space (unless the starters been traded and there's no one else).

 

 

Couldn't agree more. Sick of the who cares who we put out there in the next two years. It does matter and can pay high dividends towards the future of the franchise.

[bill hAll Star]

Sure, I'll agree that you want to have every position to be buy-low guys or prospects. That said, I wouldn't rush to fill a spot if you don't have one. I like what the Cubs did with a buy-low formerly highly ranted prospect of Luis Valbuena. Things like that are a good idea, but I wouldn't waste time or value on a position if there isn't an immediate filling of a spot.

[BrewBalls]

I still stand by me original idea of trading Garza for Chris Johnson. I know Johnson is nothing special at 3B but it saves the Brewers $7.5M, fills a need at 3B for the next couple seasons and frees up a rotation spot for another young pitcher like Lopez. He can also play 1B which give Counsell some additional roster flexibility. Then look to sign Austin Jackson to a one year deal with the hope of trading him in July and trade either Davis or Braun, Lind and K-Rod for the best packages available and we should be set.

 

Lineup: Lucroy - C, Rogers -1B, Gennett - 2B, Segura - SS, Johnson - 3B, Davis/Braun - LF, Jackson - CF, Santana - RF

Rotation: Nelson, Peralta, Jungmann, Davies and Lopez

Bullpen: Jeffress, Smith, Knebel, Blazek, Pena, Thornburg and Wagner/Goforth

Bench: Maldonado, Clark, Sardinas, Herrera and Wren/Reed

 

This is not a great team by any stretch but it does get our younger players on the field so Stearns can evaluate their capabilities.

[pacopete4]

I'd rather trade Garza to Cincy and get Brandon Phillips than Chris Johnson. (not saying I want to do either)