3B?

[logan82]

If we want a .280 batting average, 25-30 homers, and an .850-.900 OPS at third base, there is no need to trade for Franco and risk losing a top prospect in the Brewers' system like Arcia, Jorge Lopez, Brent Suter, Maverick Phillips, or Michael Reed.

 

Instead just fix the biggest mistake of the 2007-2008 offseason and return Ryan Braun to the hot corner. But the fandom - and the front office - decided long ago that it was preferable to have that revolving door at the hot corner since then - which Bill Hall, Casey McGehee, Aramis Ramirez, and Hernan Perez, among others have failed to lock down.

That is the last straw. No more Braun to 3B talk.

[DuWayne Steurer]

If we want a .280 batting average, 25-30 homers, and an .850-.900 OPS at third base, there is no need to trade for Franco and risk losing a top prospect in the Brewers' system like Arcia, Jorge Lopez, Brent Suter, Maverick Phillips, or Michael Reed.

 

Instead just fix the biggest mistake of the 2007-2008 offseason and return Ryan Braun to the hot corner. But the fandom - and the front office - decided long ago that it was preferable to have that revolving door at the hot corner since then - which Bill Hall, Casey McGehee, Aramis Ramirez, and Hernan Perez, among others have failed to lock down.

 

 

Braun himself was recently quoted as saying he would play *anywhere* BUT 3rd base. You're beating this dead horse into the ground over and over and over and over. We get it man, you want Braun at 3rd, but man........it ain't happening.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Ryan Braun on @1057FMTheFan: "I'm not opposed to playing anywhere other than third, that wasn't good for anybody."

 

 

He doesn't want to play 3rd. The organization doesn't want him at 3rd. It was not a mistake to take him off 3rd base, as he was *historically* bad at it.

 

It's almost comic how this is continually brought up, despite the guy that the debate is about has insisted he does not want to play third base anymore, because he was *terrible* at it.

[brewcrewdue80]

I like the idea of Jake Lamb more than Asche. Two teams with newer GMs getting together and making a deal. I'd see a nice fit for Davis on a trade there. Probably look to add another prospect on the DBacks end for Davis in return. Tomas moves to 3b fulltime and an Incierte/Pollock/Davis OF for a few years looks promising. I'm not sure who'd I ask for with Davis. Price seems either steep or not worthy. Could you take a Brandon Drury from them if you offered Gennett or Sardinas even better? I'd guess if the DBacks traded Lamb they'd want to keep Drury as backup at 3b. Lamb though batting Lefty would be a great 3b target to fill and hold down the 3b position until the talents we hope of Lara/Gatewood develop.

[Boomer5]

Id prefer a good glove AAAA guy there then invest heavily in a guy since we aren't an elite 3B away from contending. Its not exciting but we can live with say a Segura there until Lara/Gatewood show up.

[bill hAll Star]

I like the idea of Jake Lamb more than Asche. Two teams with newer GMs getting together and making a deal. I'd see a nice fit for Davis on a trade there. Probably look to add another prospect on the DBacks end for Davis in return. Tomas moves to 3b fulltime and an Incierte/Pollock/Davis OF for a few years looks promising.

 

I don't think Davis fits very well to Arizona.

 

Pollock is locked into CF of course. Inciarte is nice in one of the corners but is probably the caliber of a really good 4th OF and you forgot about the excellent lefty bat of David Peralta. They have stud hitting prospect Peter O'Brien who quit catching and has moved to OF.

 

So now we've got 4 starting-caliber OF and we also have to factor in that Arizona would probably just rather keep the platoon at 3B of Lamb/Tomas. Tomas was not very good in the field at all and Lamb was excellent, so they probably will just play Tomas at 3B against LHP and let him spell a corner OF spot every-so-often.. That now makes a 5th "start-able" outfielder in Arizona with a plus bat, and every one of them is younger than Khris except for Peralta, who is 4 months older than Davis and Pollock is essentially the same age as Khris.

 

Arizona just traded away Davis' near statistical clone of Trumbo to attempt to clear the logjam and they probably still have too many outfielders. I get the idea of trying to slide Tomas to 3B, but I think they'll just keep Lamb and not make it so they have 6 plus-hitting OF on their roster if Davis is added.

 

If Arizona gets a bit of pitching, they're definitely a darkhorse next year in my mind.

[TURBO]

There should be no more talk if Braun at third as he even said it was a disaster recently. Time to move on, it is not going to happen.

 

...and with plenty of good reason. It has been discussed so many times that when I see someone mention Braun at 3B I just pass right by.

[Roderick]

Id prefer a good glove AAAA guy there then invest heavily in a guy since we aren't an elite 3B away from contending. Its not exciting but we can live with say a Segura there until Lara/Gatewood show up.

 

I know you are just throwing out an example, but even in a season of getting the ducks in a row (don't want to call it a lost season), playing Segura at 3B for more than an emergency start or two would make me ill.

[sheetskout]

Outside of making a small deal for someone like a Lonnie Chisenhall type or signing someone like Gordon Beckham to a cheapie deal (both of whom are defensively sound) we may as well stick with Perez who can at least field the position. I don't see how we put a playoff-caliber player at 3B now, and for a long time frankly.

[MNBrew]

This analogy's not perfect, but to me, advocating just sticking with Hernan Perez at 3B is about the equivalent of advocating for Logan Schafer as the starting CF in comparable circumstances.

 

I've liked Schafer for a long time during his climb through the minors and I've believed in him longer than many seem to have, but even I now feel that if he were the best everyday option or the main guy getting playing time in CF, it's not a good sign for the organization. As such, I'd far prefer deal-fishing for a prospect with some promise (Lamb, Ashe, ???) than resorting to giving a roster spot to Perez, who seems to be a slightly better hitting version of Hector Gomez -- himself a guy who never should've been on this team in the first place and finally proved that true enough to earn his well-deserved DFA.

 

We may be a while from contending, but just as we've done at other positions & in other moves, I'd rather try to land someone who could be a potential part of the future core than simply settling for Perez, who's a stop-gap at best and certainly not part of any future building plans. If such potential cog arrives and Lara &/or Gatewood live up to their potential, then at minimum we have quality organizational depth, which would be a huge improvement from the present reality.

[Boomer5]

Id prefer a good glove AAAA guy there then invest heavily in a guy since we aren't an elite 3B away from contending. Its not exciting but we can live with say a Segura there until Lara/Gatewood show up.

 

I know you are just throwing out an example, but even in a season of getting the ducks in a row (don't want to call it a lost season), playing Segura at 3B for more than an emergency start or two would make me ill.

 

With a young pitching staff and some potential pop with a full season of Arcia, Santanta and hopefully Phillips, we can can afford to go with a plus defender at 3B. I don't know if Segura is the right guy, I am just thinking I want a glove there and am willing to sacrifice some OPS to help out the kids on the mound.

[JohnBriggs12]

Ok, lets throw it out there if at least to get some conversation going: Daniel Murphy. Lots of speculation that the Mets are still going to let Murphy walk despite his incredible postseason.

 

He's been a solid if not spectacular offensive performer, who'd likely flash more power in Miller Park. While 3B is not his natural position, he's played a significant number of games there and he'd also have value at 1B should Lind depart or he could allow Gennett to be dealt too.

 

Pricetag in dollars and years grows with every ace he takes deep, but he's likely still not a bank breaker in that he'll likely get a Ramirez type deal. He'd also have to be convinced that Brewers are closer than most people seem to think.

 

Before all of you start screaming that he'd slow the youth movement, might I remind you that Brewers have no top of the line 3B options closer than 3-4 years away nor any real LH pop other than Lind who's future with Brewers certainly isn't long term. I also remind you that FA cost nothing in terms of players back. He'd also still be young enough to be flipped in 2-3 years if he produces at his recent pace.

[Mr Southpaw]

Philly beat writer says the Brewers showed interest in 3B Cody Asche this past summer. Asche is expendable because the Phillies have a stud in Maikel Franco.

 

http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-philadelphia-phillies/look-ahead-what-will-be-interesting-phillies-offseason

 

Asche is has been mostly uninspiring during his 2.5 years in the big leagues. He's hit around .245-250 with a dozen HRs and an OPS between .689-.699 the last couple of years. He's lefthanded, doesn't walk a ton and strikes out at a pretty high rate.

 

I know Philly played him in the OF last year after Franco came up, but I don't know how his glove plays at 3B or anywhere else.

 

Asche is 25, so there's might be some improvement in him. In the minors he wasn't a big HR guy, but would hit .280-300 type guy with 10-15 HR. I don't remember much about when when I watched games against Philly, other than he didn't look real athletic. But that's my very limited exposure.

 

How about this trade...

 

Cody Asche 3B $1 mill

Ryan Howard 1B $25 plus 10 mill

 

for

 

Franco Rodriquez RP $7.5 plus 2 mill

Matt Garza SP $12.5 plus 12.5 mill

 

Trade Lind for prospects and save $8 mill

Let Howard play the first half of the season (I know he can hardly run) and see if he can rebound hitting wise , then trade him (AL DH playoff team) if you can or dump if you can't.

 

We end up Asche, prospects (from Lind trade), and more prospects (maybe) for Howard

and

save $6.5 mill

[sheetskout]

I could see Howard as being a way better bet to reclaim some greatness at Miller Park than Garza doing it there.

[jerichoholicninja]

Ok, lets throw it out there if at least to get some conversation going: Daniel Murphy. Lots of speculation that the Mets are still going to let Murphy walk despite his incredible postseason.

 

He's been a solid if not spectacular offensive performer, who'd likely flash more power in Miller Park. While 3B is not his natural position, he's played a significant number of games there and he'd also have value at 1B should Lind depart or he could allow Gennett to be dealt too.

 

Pricetag in dollars and years grows with every ace he takes deep, but he's likely still not a bank breaker in that he'll likely get a Ramirez type deal. He'd also have to be convinced that Brewers are closer than most people seem to think.

 

Before all of you start screaming that he'd slow the youth movement, might I remind you that Brewers have no top of the line 3B options closer than 3-4 years away nor any real LH pop other than Lind who's future with Brewers certainly isn't long term. I also remind you that FA cost nothing in terms of players back. He'd also still be young enough to be flipped in 2-3 years if he produces at his recent pace.

 

No, no, and a thousand times no. Makes absolutely no sense for the Brewers to sign him. Especially since he's going to be greatly overpaid because he had a couple hot weeks in the playoffs.

[jerichoholicninja]

Philly beat writer says the Brewers showed interest in 3B Cody Asche this past summer. Asche is expendable because the Phillies have a stud in Maikel Franco.

 

http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-philadelphia-phillies/look-ahead-what-will-be-interesting-phillies-offseason

 

Asche is has been mostly uninspiring during his 2.5 years in the big leagues. He's hit around .245-250 with a dozen HRs and an OPS between .689-.699 the last couple of years. He's lefthanded, doesn't walk a ton and strikes out at a pretty high rate.

 

I know Philly played him in the OF last year after Franco came up, but I don't know how his glove plays at 3B or anywhere else.

 

Asche is 25, so there's might be some improvement in him. In the minors he wasn't a big HR guy, but would hit .280-300 type guy with 10-15 HR. I don't remember much about when when I watched games against Philly, other than he didn't look real athletic. But that's my very limited exposure.

 

How about this trade...

 

Cody Asche 3B $1 mill

Ryan Howard 1B $25 plus 10 mill

 

for

 

Franco Rodriquez RP $7.5 plus 2 mill

Matt Garza SP $12.5 plus 12.5 mill

 

Trade Lind for prospects and save $8 mill

Let Howard play the first half of the season (I know he can hardly run) and see if he can rebound hitting wise , then trade him (AL DH playoff team) if you can or dump if you can't.

 

We end up Asche, prospects (from Lind trade), and more prospects (maybe) for Howard

and

save $6.5 mill

 

And why would Philly do that? They get two vets for a young player when they are rebuilding. Sure, they dump Howard but they get back a cheaper junk contract and a guy in Rodriguez they have no use for because they have Giles.

[DR28]

Ok, lets throw it out there if at least to get some conversation going: Daniel Murphy. Lots of speculation that the Mets are still going to let Murphy walk despite his incredible postseason.

 

He's been a solid if not spectacular offensive performer, who'd likely flash more power in Miller Park. While 3B is not his natural position, he's played a significant number of games there and he'd also have value at 1B should Lind depart or he could allow Gennett to be dealt too.

 

Pricetag in dollars and years grows with every ace he takes deep, but he's likely still not a bank breaker in that he'll likely get a Ramirez type deal. He'd also have to be convinced that Brewers are closer than most people seem to think.

 

Before all of you start screaming that he'd slow the youth movement, might I remind you that Brewers have no top of the line 3B options closer than 3-4 years away nor any real LH pop other than Lind who's future with Brewers certainly isn't long term. I also remind you that FA cost nothing in terms of players back. He'd also still be young enough to be flipped in 2-3 years if he produces at his recent pace.

 

No, no, and a thousand times no. Makes absolutely no sense for the Brewers to sign him. Especially since he's going to be greatly overpaid because he had a couple hot weeks in the playoffs.

 

If he's overpaid it will be because of this postseason and his solid career thus far... I would love our new GM to make a splash and get us Murphy to play 3B... He would help take away that HUGE black hole we have at 3B.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Murphy is 30, doesn't take walks, hits for very little power, is not a plus defender, and is about to get expensive. Every hallmark of a "just say no" type guy. His WAR hasn't been above 2.0 (a league average starter) the last four years. These are the type of players our new GM should be avoiding, not signing.

[pacopete4]

How about this trade...

 

Cody Asche 3B $1 mill

Ryan Howard 1B $25 plus 10 mill

 

for

 

Franco Rodriquez RP $7.5 plus 2 mill

Matt Garza SP $12.5 plus 12.5 mill

 

Trade Lind for prospects and save $8 mill

Let Howard play the first half of the season (I know he can hardly run) and see if he can rebound hitting wise , then trade him (AL DH playoff team) if you can or dump if you can't.

 

We end up Asche, prospects (from Lind trade), and more prospects (maybe) for Howard

and

save $6.5 mill

 

 

I say no to this just because I don't want to watch Ryan Howard for even 1/2 of a season in a Brewers uniform. I would be a better defensive first basemen than that clown and that's not saying much. No way. I'll keep Lind for 1/2 a year and trade him over that.

[reillymcshane]

Murphy is a good hitter for average, doesn't walk much, and has modest power. His versatility is a plus. Defense is meh. That's a complimentary player best suited for a team that is already contending - or close to contending - and has a hole to fill.

 

If I had a 24 year old version of Murphy making $500,000, I'd plug him in at 3B or 2B and be thrilled. But not at $10-12M a year for the next 3-4 years.

 

Paying top dollar for average players is not what Milwaukee should be doing at this time. Develop guys, make trades, invest wisely.

 

Again, it's not that we couldn't use Murphy or that he's bad. It's just not at this time should we invest in this kind of player. Our resources are better off going to other places.

[JohnBriggs12]

Murphy is 30, doesn't take walks, hits for very little power, is not a plus defender, and is about to get expensive. Every hallmark of a "just say no" type guy. His WAR hasn't been above 2.0 (a league average starter) the last four years. These are the type of players our new GM should be avoiding, not signing.

 

He outslugged Ramirez in 2015. All signs point to him becoming more of a power threat as he's aged. You are aware that he hit HR in consecutive games off of Kershaw, Greinke, Lester and Arietta? He also had the lowest strikeout rate in the NL this year and still slugged .449 and while they've shortened the fences somewhat in Citi Field, it's still not the HR park that Miller Park is, especially for LH pull hitters which is what Murphy is. His OPS in Miller Park by the way is .869. He also hits lefties well enough that he doesn't need to be platooned.

 

Yes he's 30. Signing him for 3 years plus an option means you'd have him for his 31-33 age seasons and possibly 34. They had Ramirez from age 33-37. If the intent is to be realistic contenders between 2017 and 2019 and why wouldn't they considering the track of guys like Arcia, they are going to need at least average production at 3B, and better balance in the lineup. He's capable of providing that and more.

[JohnBriggs12]

Murphy is a good hitter for average, doesn't walk much, and has modest power. His versatility is a plus. Defense is meh. That's a complimentary player best suited for a team that is already contending - or close to contending - and has a hole to fill.

 

If I had a 24 year old version of Murphy making $500,000, I'd plug him in at 3B or 2B and be thrilled. But not at $10-12M a year for the next 3-4 years.

 

Paying top dollar for average players is not what Milwaukee should be doing at this time. Develop guys, make trades, invest wisely.

 

Again, it's not that we couldn't use Murphy or that he's bad. It's just not at this time should we invest in this kind of player. Our resources are better off going to other places.

 

First, $10-12 million per year is hardly top dollar. That's the going rate for average FA. Still you make some decent points. But eventually, they are going to need to fill in around guys like Arcia, Phillips and Santana or have them suffer through half or more of their controllable years on 90 loss teams. I'm fine with using that money instead to extend Lucroy and trading for a cheaper option like Asche and I'll admit it's not likely they can afford to both sign a guy like Murphy and extend Lucroy. But I see the trading chips in guys like Peralta and Davis (where they should have replacements already in the system) in a year or two, and adding Murphy or extending Lucroy doesn't limit ability to deal them for significant return.

[trwi7]

He outslugged Ramirez in 2015.

 

I'm not sure what your point is here because Ramirez wasn't good in 2015. He should outslug him. We are just not a team that should be interested in investing multi-year, multi-million dollar contracts to average players in their 30s at any point but especially now.

[jerichoholicninja]

He outslugged Ramirez in 2015.

 

I'm not sure what your point is here because Ramirez wasn't good in 2015. He should outslug him. We are just not a team that should be interested in investing multi-year, multi-million dollar contracts to average players in their 30s at any point but especially now.

 

[sarcasm]But how many RBI's did Murphy have?[/sarcasm]

 

I hate to be a jerk but signing Murphy would be stupid. There is no case you could make that makes signing Murphy to a multiyear deal a good thing for this franchise. On the field, whatever prime years he has left would be wasted on losing teams. The only reason he's even being brought up is because he's having a hot couple of weeks in the playoffs. And pointing out that he hit homeruns off of some really great pitchers? So what. I can pick random at bats from a player's career and use those as proof of his ability too. Signing him would also signal that Mark A is just going to continue business as usual and that there truly is not hope for this team until he sells it.

[DuWayne Steurer]

they are going to need at least average production at 3B, and better balance in the lineup. He's capable of providing that and more.

 

 

His WAR the last 4 years has not reached 2 in any individual year. 2.0 is an average starting player. Saying he's capable of being an average player "and more" is a bit of a stretch, when he's going to be past the prime age for athletes.

 

I would not be opposed to signing Murphy if he were literally the last piece of the puzzle for a team looking to contend *right now*, but he's not. This is a team in the early to mid stages of a rebuild. We won't contend next year. 2017 is FAR from a sure thing. We don't know what we have in Arcia, Phillips or anyone else that hasn't even hit AAA yet. None of those guys are "can't miss" prospects, and spending money on mid-tier, aging free agents who are at best, average players makes almost zero sense.

 

You can't even say "well we can flip him for more prospects if it doesn't work out!", because that doesn't work. It didn't work with Lohse. Or Garza. Or Wolf, or almost anyone else. Signing guys to use as trade bait later is a fool's hope.

 

Sign them when you need them. And we don't need the Daniel Murphys of the world quite yet.