Can we stop winning please

[AKCheesehead]

paul- Ever since 7/5/06 I am much more concerned that a concussion is going to be the end of the world for a player. I was at that terrific ballgame, and that was such a wild one-of-a-kind play, who would have thought at the time that it would spell the end for Corey Koskie's MLB career.

[And That]

Has everyone considered what a lucky season we've had?

 

I think a fair consensus view at the start of the season was that the Brewers were slightly worse than a .500 team. If everything had gone right for us, we might have been at the fringe of the Wild Card race in mid-July, with no real hope of a championship but too good to persuade Attanasio not to buy at the deadline.

 

Instead, everything went wrong right out of the gate. Guys got hurt. Guys underperformed. Both of our vet starters completely cratered. We were the worst team in baseball long enough to put us beyond any hope of climbing out of our hole. Counsell talked about the Wild Card when he took over, but managers have to do that. We were safely out of the race in the strongest division in baseball.

 

Those circumstances set us on a clear rebuilding course. Attanasio, whom we had pegged as the second coming of Herb Kohl, saw fit to trade six of our MLB players, completely gutting our lineup but getting guys about whom so far it looks like our scouts and analysts really did their homework. Has watching the team lose been fun? Not a bit. But it's gotten us somewhere. The only places worth getting to are confidence that you've built a contender or the knowledge that you need to rebuild to get there.

 

Of course we aren't getting the top pick in next year's draft. We aren't getting it because we don't deserve it; we aren't anywhere near the worst team in baseball. Tanking hard enough to conceal that fact would be both hard and shameful. But we are bad, and we constructively tore down enough to make a top-10 pick a good bet. I'll take that, on top of a handful of young, hungry, promising players trying to prove themselves, any non-contending September of my life.

 

I don't usually quote long full posts, but when I do... nevermind, overdone meme.

 

Exceptionally well said.

[EauClaireNWL]

Best to just shut Lucroy down the rest of the season. No reason to rush him back with the team playing meaningless games. Lost two straight to Pittsburgh now. Tank is firmly back on track.

[molitor fan]

Not going to quote the whole thing, but there is a reason why Gregmag has been one of the best posters on this site for a decade or so

 

The haul of the Astros trade alone could change the future of this franchise sooner rather than later

[Ennder]

Consensus was slightly above .500, not below. But yeah this seasons path is much better than lasts. If you are going to derail a season with one awful stretch you are better off having it early than late.

[brewmann04]

the next 3 games against stl should help the slid

[wrbest]

I would love to see Brewers hammer the cardinals the rest of the year and put them in a wild card even if it means the team drops a couple of spots in the draft. The only thing as strong as my love for the Brewers is my contempt for the cardinals.

[Jenkins5]

With each win we move further away from Groome & Pint :/ I hate to see Brewers lose, however, those are two arms I'd really like to see become Brewers!

[joepepsi]

Consensus was slightly above .500, not below. But yeah this seasons path is much better than lasts. If you are going to derail a season with one awful stretch you are better off having it early than late.

They've been around .500 consistently sine June 1, (currently 2 games under). Compare to the Twins, who are 5 games under since that date. Frankly, I think the Brewers are sitting better that Twins, especially in terms of pitching.

 

So they've sort of been the team we thought they would be, if not for the horrible start. It's clear to me Roenicke and his coaches did a terrible job preparing this team.

 

Twins show how one great month can put you in that 2nd wild card race. I think they are under .500 next year and everyone wonders what happened.

[monty57]

It's clear to me Roenicke and his coaches did a terrible job preparing this team.

 

Then they must have done a bang up job preparing them for last season.

 

I just think this team is (or at least was prior to the trades) composed to be streaky:

 

1) They are mainly free swingers and rely heavily on the long ball

2) They steal/take extra bases, but run into a lot of outs

3) They often give the other team "extra outs" with below par defense

4) They swing out of their shoes with runners in scoring position

 

I could go on, but I can't blame "lack of Spring Training preparation" to account for the fact that since 2012 the Brewers have been prone to extreme hot and cold streaks.

[LouisEly]

I think it's more along the lines of the coaches - specifically Kranitz - not being good at getting guys out of a funk. Just about all major league players go through occasional slumps, and the job of coaches at the ML level is to analyze their approach and figure out what's wrong/help them make adjustments. Gennett had to be sent down to get out of his funk, and it took Lucroy until after the All-Star break to get out of his funk.

 

I would not be surprised, nor would I be heartbroken in any way, if Kranitz isn't brought back. He couldn't right Lohse or Garza (although Garza was more hurt than he was/is letting on), and Peralta is still very inconsistent, as is Nelson. I haven't seen any improvement in the starting pitching since Kranitz has been here; the veterans have gotten worse, and the younger guys haven't gotten better.

 

Yes, the Cardinals play in a more pitcher-friendly ballpark, but I don't think that accounts for a majority of the distance. I think they simply have better pitching coaches at the major league level.

[reillymcshane]

I would love to see Brewers hammer the cardinals the rest of the year and put them in a wild card even if it means the team drops a couple of spots in the draft. The only thing as strong as my love for the Brewers is my contempt for the cardinals.

I'd sacrifice a spot in the draft order to stick it to St. Louis and help force them into the wildcard game instead of the division title.

[tmwiese55]

So they've sort of been the team we thought they would be, if not for the horrible start. It's clear to me Roenicke and his coaches did a terrible job preparing this team.

 

I wouldn't say it was necessarily preparation. Something was sour in the locker room at the end of last year and it carried over, for some reason the team quit on or stopped responding to Roenicke. I haven't really heard any rumor mill /behind the scenese type stuff but something had to happen. Maybe it was just as simple as he was somehow making everyone uptight, or something bigger, who knows.

[bill hAll Star]

I'd love to send the Cards to the WC. Also, the Cards must beat the Cubs in said match and then lose in their first series. The Cubs not winning one is slightly ahead of the contempt for the Cards, simply because I've seen the Cards win one several times.

[paul253]

Would people really rather lose the opportunity to draft a potential ace like Groom or pint just to see the cardinals make the playoffs as a wildcard as opposed to making the playoffs as a division champ? I hate the cardinals, and Cubs for matter, but that seems a little shortsighted. It reminds me of the "we can't trade within our division because it might make the other team good" argument. If we are in no position to win any time soon does it really matter if we make the other team better for the rest of the season while we theoretically inprove for the future?

 

I think I'd rather get the ace than to spite Cardinals. Like I said I hate St Louis as much as the next but if losing three games to them improves our chances to land a guy like Groom or Pint then I won't be overly disappointed if we lose. St Louis is going to the playoffs regardless. I just can't see myself next June, watching the draft and seeing those guys gone before we pick, muttering to myself "well at least the Cardinals didn't win the Division".

[logan82]

I would love to see Brewers hammer the cardinals the rest of the year and put them in a wild card even if it means the team drops a couple of spots in the draft. The only thing as strong as my love for the Brewers is my contempt for the cardinals.

I'd sacrifice a spot in the draft order to stick it to St. Louis and help force them into the wildcard game instead of the division title.

Not sure how the tie breakers are working right now but a game or two could mean several spots.

[patrickgpe]

I would love to see Brewers hammer the cardinals the rest of the year and put them in a wild card even if it means the team drops a couple of spots in the draft. The only thing as strong as my love for the Brewers is my contempt for the cardinals.

I'd sacrifice a spot in the draft order to stick it to St. Louis and help force them into the wildcard game instead of the division title.

 

I'd rather have the higher pick to hopefully stick it to St. Louis down the line and win a division title.

Also i'd rather have St Louis make a deep playoff run, if that means that the cubs do not.

[FidoMcCokefiend]

I'd rather have the higher pick to hopefully stick it to St. Louis down the line and win a division title.

Also i'd rather have St Louis make a deep playoff run, if that means that the cubs do not.

 

Agree completely on the pick.

 

And, man that is quite a Sophie's Choice right there - who would I rather see make a deep playoff run the Cubs or the Cards? Instinctively I immediately thought, Cards I mean duh, I HATE the Cards. But now that I think about it, Cards fans are what they are and will never change, win or lose. Giving Cubs and their fans a reason to get that arrogant. Ugh. No thanks.

 

I've talked myself into it, I agree with both your statements.

[jerichoholicninja]

I'd take a Cards loss over the higher pick, no question. You could randomly pick 10 players from the entire draft and compare them to the top 10 from the same year and more often than not they probably the 10 random players won't turn out any worse or better than the top 10.

[Jenkins5]

I don't know, I don't want to really see Cards or Cubs succeed (Pirates I don't mind, we still own them) but I care more about our own future more than my dislike of them.

 

Now I know there is no certainty picking earlier will land you the next superstar however, if you trust your amature scouting director, you have to like him having as many high end talent to choose from.

[And That]

I don't know, I don't want to really see Cards or Cubs succeed (Pirates I don't mind, we still own them) but I care more about our own future more than my dislike of them.

 

Exactly. The best way to stick it to those teams is to beat them. Let's get better and then worry about schadenfreude.

[joepepsi]

It's clear to me Roenicke and his coaches did a terrible job preparing this team.

 

Then they must have done a bang up job preparing them for last season.

 

I just think this team is (or at least was prior to the trades) composed to be streaky:

 

1) They are mainly free swingers and rely heavily on the long ball

2) They steal/take extra bases, but run into a lot of outs

3) They often give the other team "extra outs" with below par defense

4) They swing out of their shoes with runners in scoring position

 

I could go on, but I can't blame "lack of Spring Training preparation" to account for the fact that since 2012 the Brewers have been prone to extreme hot and cold streaks.

I think your points 2,3,4 can be directly related to coaching or at least, a lack of organizational focus. Players made really awful decisions on the field at the start of the season. Roenicke's penchant for bunting out of potential big innings was also infuriating.

[monty57]

It's clear to me Roenicke and his coaches did a terrible job preparing this team.

 

Then they must have done a bang up job preparing them for last season.

 

I just think this team is (or at least was prior to the trades) composed to be streaky:

 

1) They are mainly free swingers and rely heavily on the long ball

2) They steal/take extra bases, but run into a lot of outs

3) They often give the other team "extra outs" with below par defense

4) They swing out of their shoes with runners in scoring position

 

I could go on, but I can't blame "lack of Spring Training preparation" to account for the fact that since 2012 the Brewers have been prone to extreme hot and cold streaks.

I think your points 2,3,4 can be directly related to coaching or at least, a lack of organizational focus. Players made really awful decisions on the field at the start of the season. Roenicke's penchant for bunting out of potential big innings was also infuriating.

 

The bolded part is where I was going. I really hope the new regime starts some kind of "you can't advance in our system unless you ____." Insert your favorite trait into the blank (walk 1 in 10 PAs, play good defense, steal bases at a certain % rate, show control on the mound, etc).

 

By the time the players are major leaguers, it's probably too late to change them, and in today's world the players have more clout than the coaches. If you want to have certain traits in your players, you have to draft the right players and train them at the early levels when they will listen. We have some good talent at the low levels of the system, and should add more if we get high picks in the next couple of drafts, so we need to have a good system in place to mold them into the type of MLB players we want.

 

Which brings us to topic of the thread, of course it matters where you draft. That's the whole purpose of how the draft is set up. It's not an exact science, but if it didn't matter, then why have the draft in the first place. I get that people are skeptical of the way the Brewers have drafted in the past, but in that case we should change the guys drafting (which occurred, and it now appears we're drafting better).

 

I'm no expert on the matter, but it looks to me like we currently have two guys (Arcia and Phillips) who have a decent shot at being stars, a number of guys who could be decent MLB players, and a bunch of guys who have a good shot at contributing at the MLB level. That's much better than we were a couple of years ago, when we didn't seem to have any star power in the system, but it can always get better. Getting a top 5 pick would seem to have a lot better chance of adding that star power than getting the 10-15 pick.

 

I get both sides of this. It's hard to root for "your team" to lose, but it would help the future of the franchise if they did.

[Jenkins5]

It's all playing the odds: more options, higher probability of getting a star. No sure thing but it increases your chances

[Bombers]

Right now the Brewers have the 7th Pick in the draft. They have a 3 game lead as the Tigers have 78 losses (we have 81). Then on the other side is the Marlins/Reds/ and A's all at 83 losses. If we could leapfrog all 3 of those teams we would go from the 7th pick to the 4th pick. (And the Rockies sit at the 3rd pick with 84 losses.) There is no catching the Phillies and Braves. They seem pretty locked into the 1 -2 slot.

 

We have 13 games vs the Cubs / Cards remaining. We then have 6 games vs Reds / Padres. If we can somehow get a top 5 pick, that would be great. I don't want to see the Tigers and Padres to jump over us and we end up with the 9th pick. We have an outside shot at the 3rd overall pick but could fall as far as 9th/10th. That is a big difference regardless what people want to believe.