Can we stop winning please

[RobertR]

The Brewers are giving playing time to young players who may be a part of the future / they need to find out about. The fact that the young players are playing well is a good thing. Period.

 

Yeah, maybe you could get Rogers a few more starts. Otherwise, I don't see the problem just because they're winning a few games.

 

If nothing else, the Brewers need to instill trust in the fanbase that if they pay for tickets in September (or take time out of the day to watch or listen to them), they'll get to see a major league product. Having financial stability helps a franchise as well.

 

And, heck, if you want to be active in the trade market in the offseason, it probably helps to be perceived to have some talent to trade.

 

The Brewers evaluating talent and drafting well shouldn't depend on a couple slots in the draft. I can pull out a copy of Baseball America and draft in the top 5. Finding talent despite draft position is how we evaluate whether the scouting department is good or not.

[JohnBriggs12]

Rogers is a career .290/.372/.488 hitter in the minors. If he was three years younger he'd be a top ten organizational prospect. The way I see it is that he's not flexible enough to be a bench guy. He's a first baseman. If he's not our starter I personally don't think he should on the roster. So let's see if he can cut it.

 

As far as Lind goes he is precisely the type of player we need to move away from. We don't need to be paying him $11 million a year for the next four years, particularly since he can't hit lefties.

 

You can't construct a team of all RH bats even one that isn't built to contend for 2016. It's tough on everyone in the lineup you are trying to develop if the opposing pitcher is seeing all RH bats. For all the nice young talent that's emerging, there's no LH power threat among them at least until Phillips arrives. No matter how much talent there is, lineups on winning teams always have balance. Teams with lots of LH power are especially dangerous (see Cubs since Schwarber arrived to go with Rizzo) That's why I expect Lind to be back. The fact is Rogers isn't 3 years younger and he's also right handed and RH bats are redundant in this lineup. It's tough for him, but you can't arrange your team for one guy.

 

As for Lucroy, normally yes, you'd rest him some as the season winds down but he's trying to get the taste of a bad season and a bad finish last year out of his mouth so as long as he's hot, you keep playing him. Plus it helps the young pitchers to have a veteran behind the plate.

 

Now would be a great time to play Perez everyday and let Gennett get some work against lefties though but that means sitting Herrera which for whatever reason Counsell is reluctant to do. Herrera for all his big hits is not a core player and it's astounding he's in the lineup every day. Counsell wasn't reluctant to sit Peterson to give Santana work but I see more benefit in finding out what they have in Perez and giving Gennett a chance to show he can hit lefties. Those two are just 24 and 25 year olds after all. Perez has had just as much success vs. RHP in the minors as he has against LHP. Gennett was tearing up lefties in his minor league stint earlier but hasn't made one start against them since. The only lefties he sees are the specialists who get paid to get lefties out specifically.

[FVBrewerFan]

Yes, Lind is exactly the kind of bat they need. Problem is, it does us no good the next couple years at least. So, the logical thing to do is trade him during the off-season. At some point down the road they may need to trade for a LH bat or pick up a FA similar to Lind at 1B or 3B.

 

What I fear the Brewers will do is keep Lind, Lucroy, and Krod around until the trade deadline next season. Just so they can enter the season with something to sell to the fans.

[reillymcshane]

To me this month is all about figuring out who is part of your future. If the club thinks Perez is the 3B, then play him. If the club wants to see Santana in CF, play him. And while I want a high draft pick, if we win while this is happening, I won't complain. I'll never get mad at guys for trying to win. Sure, deep down, I know that losing has its rewards with the higher draft pick, but it's nice seeing the players and team do well - even when it might cost us some draft slots.

 

I'd be upset if we were running out Lohse in the rotation or something like that. That kind of thing is just a waste since he's obviously not part of our future. I remember a few years ago when Milwaukee was giving playing time to Yuni in September when we were out of the race. There was no point.

[LouisEly]

I love it when diehard fans plead for fewer wins ... now I hope we have a top ten pick, and thus, we hand out a dumb free agent contract, because our pick is protected. Things like this make for great reading.

Shall we call you Nostradamus?

[pogokat]

To me this month is all about figuring out who is part of your future. If the club thinks Perez is the 3B, then play him. If the club wants to see Santana in CF, play him. And while I want a high draft pick, if we win while this is happening, I won't complain. I'll never get mad at guys for trying to win. Sure, deep down, I know that losing has its rewards with the higher draft pick, but it's nice seeing the players and team do well - even when it might cost us some draft slots.

 

I'd be upset if we were running out Lohse in the rotation or something like that. That kind of thing is just a waste since he's obviously not part of our future. I remember a few years ago when Milwaukee was giving playing time to Yuni in September when we were out of the race. There was no point.

 

I agree with you...The team is winning because Hernan Perez, Elian Herrera, Zach Davies, and Domingo Santana ARE Playing. What are we supposed to do? Bench those guys? for who? Nevin Ashley and Sardinas? What if they keep winning when those guys are playing in a few days.

 

I'd love to have a top five pick, but man, it's awesome to see people like Santana kill the ball and Jungmann pitch like an ace. Isn't that what we root for?

[tmwiese55]

Yea I'm in the camp that enjoys how well they've been playing. Really since June until now they've been fine. Take out the week or two around the deadline when they lost a lot and they've been very good.

 

Yes, I would prefer if they'd have lost 5 or 6 more of the close games but it's a good thing that these young guys are doing well. And that guys like Krod, Lind, Lucroy are playing well in order to trade them for as much as possible. I like what I see in Davies so far

[monty57]

They were playing so bad earlier this season that you knew they were going to play better. I'm just glad they waited until after they made some trades for the future before they got hot. I'm also glad that it's the young guys who are performing well, and the hot streak isn't because Lohse finally remembered how to pitch.

 

I understand the sentiment behind this thread, and I hope they don't end up with the 13th pick or something like that, but I am glad to see the young guys playing well. I still think they should trade away K-Rod and Lind this offseason, and I hope this hot streak doesn't lead Brewer management to sign another aging vet to a four-year deal that we're begging to get out of in a couple of years, but I hope this shows the "casual fan" that it is fun to cheer for talented young guys whose names you might not have known a year ago.

 

I've second-guessed a lot of Brewer management's decisions over the past few years, but I can't cheer for the Brewer players, especially the young ones, to play poorly.

[splitterpfj]

I love it when diehard fans plead for fewer wins ... now I hope we have a top ten pick, and thus, we hand out a dumb free agent contract, because our pick is protected. Things like this make for great reading.

Shall we call you Nostradamus?

 

Thanks for digging this up, this is exactly what I was referring to, and you could just see it coming. The Brewers weren't going to lose 130 games this year, but that is exactly the pace they were on at one point, so some winning was going to come at some point, after the season was lost. Well, here we are.

 

Just imagine the blowup on here if Milwaukee signs a free agent to a 5-year deal this winter, because they won't lose their draft pick. I honestly don't think that one will happen this time around, but just for the sake of this discussion board ... I'm kind of rooting for it.

[CheezWizHed]

Ok, guys. Its finally time for me to admit it. I'm Matt Garza. My tirade about being removed from the rotation was purely about trying to get a higher draft pick. Now that Davies kids is going out there and making it look easy. Now I suppose Pena is going to be lights out too. Rotten bums...

[pitchleague]

I'm still fully expecting a mirror image of last season and the Brewers will close out the year on a 20-5 run to finish at .500

[tmwiese55]

They were playing so bad earlier this season that you knew they were going to play better. I'm just glad they waited until after they made some trades for the future before they got hot. I'm also glad that it's the young guys who are performing well, and the hot streak isn't because Lohse finally remembered how to pitch.

 

If I recall from June 1 until they traded guys they had the 3rd best record in baseball, of course numbers 1 and 2 were the Cardinals and Pirates. Basically every game not started by Lohse they had a good shot to win. Then they traded and lost a lot while they re-tooled and have been winning since. Another silver lining here is things like this are a good sign about Counsell going forward as well.

[LouisEly]

And, heck, if you want to be active in the trade market in the offseason, it probably helps to be perceived to have some talent to trade.

Bingo. The value that the Brewers could get in return for players such as Lind, K-Rod, Segura, Garza (next season obviously), Lucroy, etc., who are playing well should more than offset the difference between having the 5th overall pick and the 10th overall pick.

[gregmag]

Has everyone considered what a lucky season we've had?

 

I think a fair consensus view at the start of the season was that the Brewers were slightly worse than a .500 team. If everything had gone right for us, we might have been at the fringe of the Wild Card race in mid-July, with no real hope of a championship but too good to persuade Attanasio not to buy at the deadline.

 

Instead, everything went wrong right out of the gate. Guys got hurt. Guys underperformed. Both of our vet starters completely cratered. We were the worst team in baseball long enough to put us beyond any hope of climbing out of our hole. Counsell talked about the Wild Card when he took over, but managers have to do that. We were safely out of the race in the strongest division in baseball.

 

Those circumstances set us on a clear rebuilding course. Attanasio, whom we had pegged as the second coming of Herb Kohl, saw fit to trade six of our MLB players, completely gutting our lineup but getting guys about whom so far it looks like our scouts and analysts really did their homework. Has watching the team lose been fun? Not a bit. But it's gotten us somewhere. The only places worth getting to are confidence that you've built a contender or the knowledge that you need to rebuild to get there.

 

Of course we aren't getting the top pick in next year's draft. We aren't getting it because we don't deserve it; we aren't anywhere near the worst team in baseball. Tanking hard enough to conceal that fact would be both hard and shameful. But we are bad, and we constructively tore down enough to make a top-10 pick a good bet. I'll take that, on top of a handful of young, hungry, promising players trying to prove themselves, any non-contending September of my life.

[BrewCrew8682]

Has everyone considered what a lucky season we've had?

 

I think a fair consensus view at the start of the season was that the Brewers were slightly worse than a .500 team. If everything had gone right for us, we might have been at the fringe of the Wild Card race in mid-July, with no real hope of a championship but too good to persuade Attanasio not to buy at the deadline.

 

Instead, everything went wrong right out of the gate. Guys got hurt. Guys underperformed. Both of our vet starters completely cratered. We were the worst team in baseball long enough to put us beyond any hope of climbing out of our hole. Counsell talked about the Wild Card when he took over, but managers have to do that. We were safely out of the race in the strongest division in baseball.

 

Those circumstances set us on a clear rebuilding course. Attanasio, whom we had pegged as the second coming of Herb Kohl, saw fit to trade six of our MLB players, completely gutting our lineup but getting guys about whom so far it looks like our scouts and analysts really did their homework. Has watching the team lose been fun? Not a bit. But it's gotten us somewhere. The only places worth getting to are confidence that you've built a contender or the knowledge that you need to rebuild to get there.

 

Of course we aren't getting the top pick in next year's draft. We aren't getting it because we don't deserve it; we aren't anywhere near the worst team in baseball. Tanking hard enough to conceal that fact would be both hard and shameful. But we are bad, and we constructively tore down enough to make a top-10 pick a good bet. I'll take that, on top of a handful of young, hungry, promising players trying to prove themselves, any non-contending September of my life.

 

I know I shouldn't quote something this long, but I'm on my phone and j just had to say I agree whole-heartedly with everything said here. The success of the team's youth and the general talent level likely won't lead us to a top 5 pick. I'll root for the other bottom stragglers to get hot, but I can honestly say seeing Santana, Davies, and the trade-able vets playing to the higher end of their expectations has been a breath of fresh air.

[EauClaireNWL]

Well, you can take a bit of solace in the fact that if Pittsburgh does lose in the WC playoff, they only have to blame their playoff position on the number of losses to Milwaukee this year. There are a number of games remaining against St. Louis and Chicago, the team will have a chance at playing spoiler in the playoff race.

 

With their remaining schedule, if they play about .500 baseball the rest of the way, given they were sellers at the deadline, I think you can say they had a productive second half for a team well out of it.

[tmwiese55]

Too bad we couldn't be spoilers for STL or Chi instead. I really have no beef with Pitt, maybe because we've dominated them for so long, but I just hate STL and to a lesser extent Chicago

[wrbest]

I was really torn last night. I never want to see the crew lose, but anything that helps the cardinals also sucks. hopefully we can put up some W's against STL next week.

[bork]

If you don't want the Brewers to win, you'd have to be pretty happy with tonight's lineup: No Lucroy, Braun or Santana.

[trwi7]

If you don't want the Brewers to win, you'd have to be pretty happy with tonight's lineup: No Lucroy, Braun or Santana.

 

Whenever there are lineups like this, there will either be 1 run maximum or 10+ runs. There is no in between.

[MadScientist]

Either Counsell is pushing the Brewers luck against Pittsburgh, or he just told Nelson to go throw a No-No.

[trwi7]

Either Counsell is pushing the Brewers luck against Pittsburgh, or he just told Nelson to go throw a No-No.

 

I think it's just that Morton is terrible against left handed hitters. Left handed hitters hit like Ben Zobrist off of Morton while right handed hitters hit like Johnny Giavotella off of him.

[jerichoholicninja]

It's probably because Lucroy has a concussion, Santana hasn't sat a game since his callup, and Braun needs a day off every now and then.

[LouisEly]

This year Morton has a .613 OPS-A vs. RHB and a .827 OPS-A vs. LHB.

 

That, and Lucroy has a concussion, Braun needs a day off every now and then, and Santana should be set up for success by not always sending him out against tough RHP - let him build up his confidence first.

 

Interesting side note - for his career, Khris Davis has a slightly higher OPS vs. RHP than LHP.

[paul253]

For the record the main reason I've been calling for Braun and Lucroy to sit three or four times a week is to minimize the chance of major injuries like a torn ACL or something. While a concussion certainly isn't the end of the world and it was pretty impossible to prevent it just irritates me to see an injury like that when we are playing for nothing. I said over and over again that catching is hard on the body and now possibly our best player gets a concussion while catching a meaningless game. And again while concussions certainly aren't the end of world they are something that you don't want to see happen multiple times. I'll be very disappointed if Lucroy catches again this year. Foul balls off the mask occur almost every game. No need to put him through that again.