Should We Have Kept Zack Greinke?

[danzig6767]

Bottom line could never have afforded him

Not only that, Greinke very well could have preferred living on the west coast vs Milwaukee. I certainly would have and i've lived most of my life in Wisconsin, but despise the climate here. He also has a wife who may have preferred living in LA vs Wisconsin for a variety of reasons besides climate.

 

2. If they have a family, do the wife and kids want to stay where they are, move elsewhere, or don't care that much either way.

Stuff like this gets said all the time about players, but how many players actually live year round where they play? Seems like every road trip Rock says so and so lives here so they get to sleep in their own bed tonight. If playing where you live was that big of a deal shouldn't players be knocking down the door to play for the Diamondbacks?

Athletes still spend six plus months in the city they play for, so i have no doubt that for some, not all athletes, where they sign a multi-year deal is a factor for them and their families. Playing in LA vs Milwaukee will simply be more appealing for some athletes if the money is relatively even.

 

As for why players aren't all flocking to Arizona. Like i said in my third point, most upper tier athletes want to win also. When the Brewers were good over the last 5-6 years, free agents were more willing to consider Milwaukee compared to the past. So for Greinke, signing with the Dodgers made sense on multiple fronts. First they paid him well which was required for any team after his services. Besides that, he and his wife get to live in LA during the season and the Dodgers have vast revenue streams, so he knew his contact wouldn't hamper the team in the slightest from keeping a quality roster around him.

 

On the flip side, one reason Aramis Ramirez said he picked the Brewers instead of the Angels was that Milwaukee was close to his home in Chicago

[BrewCrew8682]

In hindsight, I wouldn't have even traded for Greinke in the first place. We'd still have control of Lo Cain, Escobar and never had to go through Yuni B. Just like Prince, Greinke wouldn't have signed long term with the Brewers. Develop from within, develop from within, develop from within. That's got to be the mantra of the new GM. Invest in scouting, invest in minor leagues and develop a system wide strategy and plan as to how to take a player and get them through the system building up their talents. I look at Houston and see what they did and they now have one of the top farm systems in all of baseball. All because of a system wide strategy. Which I think the Brewers should replicate.

 

Obviously their system isn't THAT system wide, or at least nobody told the players. They're out their winning games like their draft position won't be affected at all! That poor GM. How are they supposed to maintain their ranking?

[MrTPlush]

It is usually a big deal for guys at the end of their careers signing one years deals. You don't want to end up moving every single year. Now when you are signing some big 4+ year deal...probably not the biggest of concerns.

 

In all honesty you probably have two houses anyway.

[craigharmann]

In hindsight, I wouldn't have even traded for Greinke in the first place. We'd still have control of Lo Cain, Escobar and never had to go through Yuni B. Just like Prince, Greinke wouldn't have signed long term with the Brewers. Develop from within, develop from within, develop from within. That's got to be the mantra of the new GM. Invest in scouting, invest in minor leagues and develop a system wide strategy and plan as to how to take a player and get them through the system building up their talents. I look at Houston and see what they did and they now have one of the top farm systems in all of baseball. All because of a system wide strategy. Which I think the Brewers should replicate.

 

Obviously their system isn't THAT system wide, or at least nobody told the players. They're out their winning games like their draft position won't be affected at all! That poor GM. How are they supposed to maintain their ranking?

 

Umm....the point was to basically tear it down, build a system so that for YEARS they can be competitive. Guess what? They're in first place. Look at their minor league teams. All in the playoffs. Young talent, working together to build something great for years to come. That could be the Brewers. If there's commitment to building and not wasting money on the Matt Garzas and Kyle Lohses and Jeff Suppans of the world.

[CheezWizHed]

I have been thinking about this quite a bit lately and believe we made a mistake. Greinke has been lights out this year but overall as a Dodger, he’s just been the ace this team needs. Now I get hindsight is 20/20 but I truly believe we could’ve afforded his contract.

 

MONEY SPENT:

2013: Greinke- $19m or Lohse- $11m = +$8m

2014: Greinke- $26m or Lohse- $11m + Garza- $12.5 = +$2.5m

2015: Greinke- $26m or Lohse- $11m + Garza- $12.5 = +$2.5m

2013-15: Jean Segura Earning = $1.5m

*Greinke buyout year, which he most likely will do it sounds but just in case:

2016: Greinke- $26m or Garza- $12.5m = +$13.5m

2017: Greinke- $25m or Garza- $12.5m = +$13.5m

2018: Greinke- $26m or Garza option not invested = +$26m

 

Totals:

2013-15 = $11.5M more + another SP during that time period

2016-18 = $53m more would’ve been spent one Greinke had he stayed

 

PRODUCTION:

Dodgers

Greinke- 16.3 WAR with the Dodgers during his time

 

Brewers

Segura- 4.8 WAR w/Brewers

Lohse- 4.4 WAR w/Brewers

Garza- .1 WAR w/Brewers

TOTAL- 9.3 WAR

 

PROSPECTS:

Johnny Hellweg- Soon to be 27 year old that was lit up in A+ ball and even more lit up in AA ball this year. Consider him a throw away player at this point.

Ariel Pena- 26 year old who has been pretty solid at AAA that still has a chance at the big league club.

 

[sarcasm]Don't forget to factor in Yuni B's salary and WAR contribution at SS if we didn't have Segura.[/sarcasm]

[monty57]

MONEY SPENT:

2013: Greinke- $19m or Lohse- $11m = +$8m

2014: Greinke- $26m or Lohse- $11m + Garza- $12.5 = +$2.5m

 

Remember that in order to fit Ramirez's contract onto the 2012 payroll, Melvin worked it so that he only made (IIRC) $6M in 2012 with a significant increase in 2013 and 2014, and deferred money. Had they extended Greinke (presumably prior to 2012, as he wasn't going to extend midway through 2012), Ramirez never would have been signed. Therefore, while we were trotting out multiple SS's at 1B, we also would have had a similar situation at 3B with no money to fix either situation.

 

I know people want to say "Attanasio has money to spend," but it's not that simple. The team is going to be run under a payroll based on the expected revenue the team will generate. That payroll is the limit, so when you are have guaranteed obligations putting you at or near the limit, any additions in one area generally mean there has to be a subtraction elsewhere. Therefore, it will be very hard for the Brewers to ever afford two high-priced players at the same time while still fielding 23 capable players around them.

[BrewCrew8682]

In hindsight, I wouldn't have even traded for Greinke in the first place. We'd still have control of Lo Cain, Escobar and never had to go through Yuni B. Just like Prince, Greinke wouldn't have signed long term with the Brewers. Develop from within, develop from within, develop from within. That's got to be the mantra of the new GM. Invest in scouting, invest in minor leagues and develop a system wide strategy and plan as to how to take a player and get them through the system building up their talents. I look at Houston and see what they did and they now have one of the top farm systems in all of baseball. All because of a system wide strategy. Which I think the Brewers should replicate.

 

Obviously their system isn't THAT system wide, or at least nobody told the players. They're out their winning games like their draft position won't be affected at all! That poor GM. How are they supposed to maintain their ranking?

 

Umm....the point was to basically tear it down, build a system so that for YEARS they can be competitive. Guess what? They're in first place. Look at their minor league teams. All in the playoffs. Young talent, working together to build something great for years to come. That could be the Brewers. If there's commitment to building and not wasting money on the Matt Garzas and Kyle Lohses and Jeff Suppans of the world.

 

The point was not lost on me. I guess what frustrates me is the idea that the other teams that have recently completed a rebuild are some progressive thinking geniuses, when the Brewers themselves only got the the point they'd even consider making a splash to push them over the top or extend their window was because they themselves built from the ground up with their farm. Give the Astros a few years, and if they don't make similar moves I'll be surprised. They've already started with Gomez and Fiers, much quicker than the Crew did in the mid 2000s. I'm totally for a rebuild, but I don't think that it means we've turned a corner and accepted a new enlightened form of thinking. I hope that if we are able to develop enough young talent without any trades/signings that we hold steady and try to continue to replenish the system on an ongoing basis, but if we aren't able to develop a full 25-man roster I hope that we make some sort of push when a window is open. I think it is much harder to fill an entire roster than many here want to admit. If the money is there, and the timing along with some pre-arby talent allows for a FA to be sprinkled in here and there I hope they pull the trigger.

 

I think developing a solid core is the most you can ask for, and they remaining needs need to be solved with some creativity, hopefully not mortgaging the future if possible but if the well is beginning to run dry with a series of bad drafts (or reduced from drafting at a lower spot) I'd hope they consider it. A perpetually average but homegrown team would frustrate me as much as the teams we've trotted out the last few years. I believe these things are cyclical, and just because we are re-entering the building phase doesn't mean we've had it wrong the whole time. Just that it didn't work out or the moves we made inside the window weren't correct.