Opinions on Carlos Gomez

[AKCheesehead]

One of the things that used to get me the most with the Cardinals is they would take any offense to our young guys actions, especially if Braun celebrated a HR in anyway or watched it for one or two steps. Yet Pujols back in his glory days was probably the worst HR watcher/walker/poser since Bonds. Personally I don't care if he did it, but then what gives you the right to plunk Braun intentionally multiple times each season

 

This was one of the many style things I didn't like about RR. Teams, especially the crads, knew they could get away with that nonsense with us without consequence. I'm not a fan of getting into senseless battles but I think you have to let your opponents know, tread on me at your own peril.

[dlk9s]

The only thing I can remember Braun doing was that one time in maybe his second year or so when he hotdogged it in the direction of the Brewers dugout after hitting a homer. It was some inside joke thing, not trying to show up the other team, but it looked bad. He realized it and apologized afterwards. For some reason, he then got the reputation of being some cocky assbag when (PED thing aside), he almost never said anything and just went about his business.

 

Look, I don't like it when players in any sport are over the top clowns, like the aforementioned T.O. I mean, he's just a putz. But these are games the guys are playing. They are allowed to celebrate when they hit a walk-off, they are allowed to smile when they rob someone of a homer they are allowed to jump around and have fun. Carlos Gomez is tremendously fun to watch and must be a blast to have as a teammate.

[tmwiese55]

If the one you mentioned is the one I'm thinking of it was essentially a game winner to put us in the playoffs on the last day of the season. He turned to the bench with his bat and did some antics with it. I mean, cmon it's a HR to put you in the playoffs for the first time ever. He had one really early in his career at STL that I think was midseason top of the 9th game winner that he overly celebrated too, probably got him on the STL badside too. But like I said before, game winners and playoff relevant shots should be allowed an exception by anyone.

[jerichoholicninja]

My opinion is he has a 10 cent head on the field and all the whiny little children that have a problem with him showing emotion need to get over themselves.

[umphrey]

I always thought the energy was good for the team. I can't remember him looking for trouble too many times but he isn't one to run away from it.

[danzig6767]

Race has nothing to do with anything and I honestly resent the implication.

 

I think the dividing lines on these kind of issues fall along personality lines more so than race, but it's incredibly easy these days to go to the race card for any perceived slight.

The reality is though that regardless if it's baseball, basketball, or football, it's mostly older white sports fans who complain about what they perceive as overly exuberant behavior by athletes, who often are black or hispanic. That's not socalled playing a race card, just the way it is even if that doesn't make someone a racist to feel that way.

 

So while race certainly is some factor, age might be the biggest. At family gatherings on both sides over the years where sports often are on TV, it's almost been my older family members/friends of family who complain about what they perceive as "showboating" and sometimes with racial commentary, while i hear that far less from guys say under 30 to 40.

 

For me, i have zero issue with most of this kind of stuff by athletes. The only times it gets silly for me is when in football some guys celebrate like crazy after doing little more than making a nothing special tackle or picking off a pass thrown right to them, even if their teams are losing by a lot.

 

In baseball though, the sport has long gone about suppressing personality out of the game so well that it's extremely rare where a player does something that bothers me besides pitchers throwing basically a rock at batters over silly perceived slights. If i ran baseball, i'd strongly jack up penalties for any situation where i felt pitchers intentionally hit batters. Walking up to a player and sucker punching him over a perceived slight would draw a huge penalty, yet often little happens when a pitcher intentionally throws a rock hard ball 90mph or faster at another player.

[LouisEly]

Linkto an article from ESPN:

 

"I don't care what Joe Girardi says. ... If [the Yankees] feel frustrated, that's not my problem. This is part of the game, part of the nature of competition, and those who don't know how to compete, can just go home and cry."

Love it.

 

Yankees can take their payroll and stick it where the sun don't shine. It's your fault you're down 9-0.

 

This is why Gomez has gotten better - he refuses to allow himself to be mediocre under any circumstances.

[brewcrewdue80]

I'm guessing the McCann idea had a little to do with the jarring back and forth from the dugout. Here's the thing. Perspective. Yankees are upset over Gomez' show of displeasure in a 9-0 game.

Gomez' perspective is he's been struggling batting below .200 I believe for the Astros. And in a 9-0 game, meaning Hittable pitches have been thrown the Astros way, he missed and continues this poor trend he's on.

I see nothing wrong with what Gomez did because what he has been going through... probably pressing and he's better than this stretch.

For the Yankees to cry out chirping his way for such an act they have problems. And Gomez paid them back with a HR next at bat. Nothing from that HR comes back to him in his actions. Didn't showboat that.

 

I won't find much wrong with emotion shown on field because I'll consider what's been going through that guys head to show such emotion.

How about a team that's getting beaten 9-0 and having a problem with an out just walking to the umpire and declaring they quit? Bigger sore sport to create a scene over an out.

[valpocrewsader]

looking for opinions on his attitude

 

Immature, out of control, unintelligent, hothead. So glad he's not on the Brewers anymore.

[craigharmann]

He's awesome. And frustrating. But I want a player playing with energy and passion. Looking forward to seeing him September 6th and 21st.

[monty57]

looking for opinions on his attitude

 

Immature, out of control, unintelligent, hothead. So glad he's not on the Brewers anymore.

 

I think a big reason the team has been so streaky over the past few seasons is that your team leader is striking out while swinging so hard his helmet falls off when there is a runner in scoring position and all you need is to make contact. I understand that he got better once Sveum told him to let loose, but there are situations where you should alter your approach. I don't think Gomez is "baseball smart" enough to understand situations... at the plate, on the bases, or in the field.

 

This is not just on Gomez, but he was the most obvious. The team as a whole needs to get a lot smarter if they ever want to win. Getting rid of players who do not fit this profile, especially when you can get a lot of talent back in return, is a step in the right direction.

 

As to the antics, at some point most people grow up. When you're 30 and acting like a pre-schooler, don't be surprised when the adults in the room chastise you for it. This applies to everyone in everyday life, but is magnified when played on a stage that is broadcast to a large audience.

 

One thing we as fans miss out on is what goes on "behind the scenes." Everyone in baseball (including his teammates) say that Braun is very cocky, and seemingly every team in baseball has had some issues with Gomez. There is probably more to that than what we see while watching the game.

[3and2Fastball]

One of the most talented players in Baseball but on the downward side of his career. I'm thrilled with the trade the Brewers made, I think it was (almost) perfect timing.

 

I have no comments on his "personality" or "attitude". It is foolish to think I know someone based on how he appears on TV or at a game I attended. He hustles and plays hard, I like that in a player

[gregmag]

Of course race has something to do with what we're talking about, and maybe culture more broadly. For my part, I get very frustrated when people try to rule discussions of race out of bounds because it "offends them." Racism offends me. The keepers of The Right Way To Play are almost always white jerks. What brought this home to me was when the Cardinals started dumping on Mike Cameron, by all accounts one of the solidest human beings in MLB, for the untucking thing. Nyjer got it, Gomez gets it, and jerks like Carpenter and McCann are always the ones who dish it out. Do the math.

 

Carlos needs to learn to walk away from stupid fights sometimes, but I love his attitude, passion, and style. The game needs to adjust to guys like him, not the other way around.

[jerichoholicninja]

Here's one of the things I've learned in my 10+ years as an adult involved in baseball. It doesn't matter what level I've coached or played on (high school, college, adult) a lot of guys just look for stupid things their opponent does to get pissy about. Slid too hard, pitched too close to me, swung at a 3-0 pitch up by a lot, bunted when you shouldn't have, played too hard, was too excited about doing something good, stole a base when you shouldn't have, didn't wear your hat the right way, and those are just things I can remember right now. I've never really been involved in any other sport before so maybe this is common but it's happened countless times that I've shook my head in disbelief because a team I was coaching or playing against was so upset because of something so minor.

[FVBrewerFan]

Of course race has nothing to do with it. Bryce Harper rubs me the wrong way probably more than any other player. And it's not about "offending" me, I just don't like it.

[tmwiese55]

Here's one of the things I've learned in my 10+ years as an adult involved in baseball. It doesn't matter what level I've coached or played on (high school, college, adult) a lot of guys just look for stupid things their opponent does to get pissy about. Slid too hard, pitched too close to me, swung at a 3-0 pitch up by a lot, bunted when you shouldn't have, played too hard, was too excited about doing something good, stole a base when you shouldn't have, didn't wear your hat the right way, and those are just things I can remember right now. I've never really been involved in any other sport before so maybe this is common but it's happened countless times that I've shook my head in disbelief because a team I was coaching or playing against was so upset because of something so minor.

 

I wonder if it's because the season is so long with so few off days that everyone is just cranky and wound too tight.

[502 to Right]

When Carlos was playing for the Brewers I never minded his bat flips or finger pointing or any other show of emotion. I hated his senseless base running though.

 

I was watching the Yankees-Astros game live when this happened (MLB Network) and I thought the Yankees were the ones out of line. Carlos just told them to shut up (three times) after they started barking at him and the Yankees are the ones who ran onto the field.

[danzig6767]

Here's one of the things I've learned in my 10+ years as an adult involved in baseball. It doesn't matter what level I've coached or played on (high school, college, adult) a lot of guys just look for stupid things their opponent does to get pissy about. Slid too hard, pitched too close to me, swung at a 3-0 pitch up by a lot, bunted when you shouldn't have, played too hard, was too excited about doing something good, stole a base when you shouldn't have, didn't wear your hat the right way, and those are just things I can remember right now. I've never really been involved in any other sport before so maybe this is common but it's happened countless times that I've shook my head in disbelief because a team I was coaching or playing against was so upset because of something so minor.

I wonder if it's because the season is so long with so few off days that everyone is just cranky and wound too tight.

I don't buy that. An NBA season is an 82 game grind and for the most part, players and fans of that sport don't get all bent out of shape over a wide range of perceived slights. For some reason this is unique to baseball and won't go away.

 

Why does anyone care if say a batter admires a long bomb he hits for a few seconds? Or flips his bat? Steals a base up 5-6-7 runs? A pitcher gets really excited over a big K?

 

Even worse when a manager orders a pitcher to hit a batter over one of these stupid slights or a pitcher decides to do this on their own. Baseball is the only major sport which allows something that potentially dangerous over such minor issues. If a player excessively acts like an idiot, it should be up to his manager and teammates to make that player change, not the other team throwing a baseball at him 90 plus miles per hour.

[FVBrewerFan]

I don't buy that. An NBA season is an 82 game grind and for the most part, players and fans of that sport don't get all bent out of shape over a wide range of perceived slights. For some reason this is unique to baseball and won't go away.

 

No way. NBA lost a ton of fans because they were sick of all the antics, arguing with ref after every foul, etc. So much so they had to change the rules to try to cut down on that stuff.

[TURBO]

I have a hard time with the "have fun" arguments.

 

Gomez like Braun (especially early in his career) was never my kind of guy, I don't need any antics, I much prefer class and treating your opponents with respect than "pimping it" as the college kids I've been working with call it.

 

I preferred Hardy and Hart to Gomez and Braun... in the same way that I preferred Donald Driver to Terrell Owens.

 

Race has nothing to do with anything and I honestly resent the implication.

 

I certainly appreciate the production those players provide, but they aren't the type of guys who's jerseys I would go and buy if I were into that sort of thing.

 

I actually think these issues are more along the line of; if he plays on your team then he's exuberant and plays with passion, however if he plays against your team you think he's an arrogant douche.

 

As a player I was the kind of guy who just handed the ball back to the referee after scoring a touchdown, or just went right into playing D if I hit a 3 instead of leaving my arm in the air, or when I got a game winning hit in baseball I was looking to take the extra base if something happened at home. Scoring points and doing good things were simply what I was supposed to be doing as an athlete. I don't have anything against people who aren't that way but I'm not going to gravitate towards those players or people either.

 

I'm a low key, laid back, congratulations for doing what your supposed to do kind of guy and those are the kind of athletes that I end admiring... like Steve Yzerman who played many years for the Red Wings in the NHL.

 

I think the dividing lines on these kind of issues fall along personality lines more so than race, but it's incredibly easy these days to go to the race card for any perceived slight.

 

Gomez would show up players in A ball while on rehab assignments with the Rattlers, there were multiple instances of him ending up jawing with opposing coaches. Dude you're playing 4 levels down, you're a MLB all-star, most of these young men will never get a sniff, none of this is necessary or even proper. If some MLB player pimped a HR on a rehab assignment against one of the T-Rat pitchers I would be just as pissed. It's like a senior in high school going down and playing Babe Ruth, then pimping his every success.

 

Right before I quit coaching football I had a QB who would always gesture and do some antics on the field after something bad happened. About mid season we were watching film, just the 2 of us, and I asked him why all the theatrics and he said, "Coach the fans and parents need to know that wasn't OK!", and I simply said "Why would they think otherwise?". He didn't have a response... and that's where I come from on these issues.

 

After reading this entire thread, I couldn't say anything more than the post above. I agree spot on with this assessment.

 

The race thing is out of place and unnecessary in this thread, but why should it surprise anyone that no matter what the issue, race has to be included... Gets old...

 

Two things that I almost can't stomach any longer are the constant race issues, and the constant gay issues. They are just plain driven into the ground these days.

[TURBO]

 

This is why Gomez has gotten better - he refuses to allow himself to be mediocre under any circumstances.

 

Except for when running the bases. He continues to allow himself to be below mediocre while running the bases. Once his speed takes a big hit due to age (something that may have already started) his poor base running skills will be even more evident.

[jerichoholicninja]

The race thing is out of place and unnecessary in this thread, but why should it surprise anyone that no matter what the issue, race has to be included... Gets old...

 

Gomez grew up and learned how to play baseball in a country and culture where showing emotion while playing was common place. This is generally frowned upon in America, however. Nothing about this is controversial or racism. It is fact. That some players, coaches, media, fans, etc. get their panties in a bunch when a player show emotions such as excitement or frustration in ways that are non-confrontational or not derogatory to opponents or umpires is stupid.

[MrTPlush]

It is more of a nationality thing...not race. It really depends how you say it.

[SoCalBrewfan]

John Baker (former A's draftee IIRC) had a nice piece on this:

 

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/story/playing-baseball-right-way-depends-three-factors-when-who-where-061615

 

We're very fortunate that the best players in the world come to MLB, and they bring a variety of traditions with them. As Baker says, 'the right way to play' starts out as a function of where you learned the game and from whom...but it doesn't have to stay that way. I for one think Gomez is fun, and that the game should be fun, and that Joe Girardi needs to get over himself...

[DocLuna7]

It is more of a nationality thing...not race. It really depends how you say it.

 

Totally agree. A guy of Dominican heritage who grows up in Milwaukee or some other place in the US is much more likely to adopt American norms (since he would be an American after all) as opposed to guys who are actually from the Dominican Republic.