Offseason deal with the Twins

[MrTPlush]

Keeping Lind and Krod without getting anything-that's what would hurt the rebuild the most- it's better than most options of "let's get a 3b prospect" generically without saying who for what. Plouffe could also be traded again later if the Brewers still aren't contending in 2017.

 

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing Rogers play 3b next year. Even if he is awful defensively we can all see if his bat plays as an everyday player.

 

Sure that would make sense if that was the only deal available or no one was offering prospects. I highly doubt that will be the case and therefor such a deal for Plouffe only would be really questionable. Sure he could be traded later when we aren't contending, but it seems like an unneeded risk. Why not just get the prospects now and get them into our system?

[JohnBriggs12]

Why does every Brewer trade proposal have to be established player for prospect? Why not deal from area of strength in the system (RH bats) for area of less strength (LH bats/1B)?

 

Brewers have excess of RH hitting corner OF and a dearth of LH hitting 1B. Santana for Kepler straight up makes sense for both teams. Kepler hits LH, and also plays 1B and provides a less strikeout prone bat to a lineup that could use one. He'd also be a viable replacement for Lind who could be moved in another deal. Minnesota needs a replacement for Torii Hunter in RF. Santana would be great fit for them.

 

Brewers can cover CF next year with combo of Reed, Peterson, Schafer

[Devinep]

1B isn't necessarily a need if Rogers gets a chance after Linds hopefully traded or Braun gets moved there-especially I ally with the excess OF

[JohnBriggs12]

1B isn't necessarily a need if Rogers gets a chance after Linds hopefully traded or Braun gets moved there-especially I ally with the excess OF

 

 

Love Rogers, but they need LH bats somewhere. You can't put a lineup on the field against a major league RH pitcher with Scooter Gennett and Elian Herrera as the lone LH bats can you? Other than Phillips and down the road, Clark, they don't have any among the prospects. I suppose you could platoon Peterson in CF with Santana this year to get another, but do you want Santana sitting 5 days a week or a career minor leaguer like Peterson playing 5 days a week? Yes it would be tough giving up a guy like Santana, but Reed is a guy who could end up being the better all around of the two and they represent a redundancy.

[Devinep]

More lefties would be nice, but i don't know if I'd worry about that this year. It's not like a lack of balance will keep them from the playoffs. When getting prospects via trade, then give a lefty preference at that point

[Bnowell4evr]

1B Max Kepler

RHP Jose Barrios or LHP Tyler Jay

2B Jorge Polanco

RHP Nick Burdi

 

for

 

C Jon Lucroy

LHP Will Smith

RHP KRod

Cash

 

I'd give them anything they wanted to get Barrios in the deal.

[Madhawk23]

Now that it appears the Twins are getting Park, it appears that they may need to find a home for Plouffe - and they also still need to find a catcher. If you were both teams, would you do a deal like this:

 

Twins get:

Jonathan Lucroy

Will Smith

 

Brewers get:

Trevor Plouffe

Max Kepler

Kohl Stewart or Nick Burdi

 

I'd love to have Berrios, but I don't see anyway the Twins give him up, considering that they need good young pitching and Berrios appears to be close to being ready.

 

So, is this enough for Lucroy and Smith? Not enough? We'd have a 3B with pop locked into our lineup for the next few years, a young 1B who could be ready towards the later part of this upcoming season (after Lind is traded) and a nice young arm that we can take our time with and hope is ready by the start of the 2017 season.

[bill hAll Star]

Beating a dead horse - why do we need Plouffe? He's going to play 3B for a 65 win team and then be gone, or we're just going to be looking to trade him again immediately after we've acquired him in your deal here.

[Madhawk23]

Ultimately, yes I see us trading him in the next year and a half for another prospect or two. However, we also have a need at the MLB level right now for a 3B - so this would help solve that issue, while also getting us two legit prospects from the Twins at positions of need.

 

I hear what you are saying though. If we can trade Plouffe in that deal for a Berrios or a Tyler Jay, then sign me up for that instead. But, that seems like a pipe dream to me.

[JohnBriggs12]

Now that it appears the Twins are getting Park, it appears that they may need to find a home for Plouffe - and they also still need to find a catcher. If you were both teams, would you do a deal like this:

 

Twins get:

Jonathan Lucroy

Will Smith

 

Brewers get:

Trevor Plouffe

Max Kepler

Kohl Stewart or Nick Burdi

 

I'd love to have Berrios, but I don't see anyway the Twins give him up, considering that they need good young pitching and Berrios appears to be close to being ready.

 

So, is this enough for Lucroy and Smith? Not enough? We'd have a 3B with pop locked into our lineup for the next few years, a young 1B who could be ready towards the later part of this upcoming season (after Lind is traded) and a nice young arm that we can take our time with and hope is ready by the start of the 2017 season.

 

Plouffe will get more in arbitration the next two years than the Brewers would have to pay Lucroy and the Brewers would have a bigger drop off at the catcher position than they would a boost at 3B and they still would be without either in 2018.

 

I'd offer them Smith straight up for Kepler in a heart beat though. Neither Stewart (6K's per 9IP) or Burdi (4.8BB per 9 IP) strike me as can't miss pitching prospects either, and if you are going to take a young pitcher as part of a Lucroy deal, you better get an impact one who's ceiling is higher than the gaggle of prospects the Brewers already have.

 

Finally why is there more concern about the Twins finding a catcher but apparently none about the Brewers finding one post Lucroy?

[bill hAll Star]

Ultimately, yes I see us trading him in the next year and a half for another prospect or two. However, we also have a need at the MLB level right now for a 3B - so this would help solve that issue, while also getting us two legit prospects from the Twins at positions of need.

 

I hear what you are saying though. If we can trade Plouffe in that deal for a Berrios or a Tyler Jay, then sign me up for that instead. But, that seems like a pipe dream to me.

 

Give me anybody in the minors with a pulse/potential instead of Plouffe in the deal. The Brewers' team is going to be terrible the next few years, so go out and get some buy-low 3B candidates to fill the void.

[Madhawk23]

Appreciate the input. Again - just throwing this trade idea out there to get some conversation going.

 

The Twins obviously could be an ideal trade partner with their need for a catcher, and the fact that they appear to be heading into a "win now" mode. Not to mention, it would appear that they have a pretty good farm system. In your opinion, what would be a realistic package in return for Lucroy and Smith?

 

Honestly, I really don't have much interest in getting Plouffe - but I thought he could at least bridge a gap for us at that position until we can get an internal option ready at that position.

 

I also realize that trading Lucroy would just open up another big gap for us at the catcher position, but we're eventually going to have to face that problem anyway, since it doesn't appear that we have much at that position in our system.

[bill hAll Star]

Finally why is there more concern about the Twins finding a catcher but apparently none about the Brewers finding one post Lucroy?

 

If you can paint a scenario where the Brewers are legitimate contenders with the Cubs, Pirates, and Cardinals (heck, the Reds are also rebuilding) before 2018, without:

-Warren Buffet buying the team and boosting payroll to 400 million

-Something that mortgages the entire farm system to compete in 2016

 

Then catcher does not really matter right now. We have 3 years to draft, trade for, sign, etc. a new catcher. If the rest of the Brewers roster looks great in 2018 or 2019, we can overpay the most expensive catcher on the market. Heck, I'll bet that whomever bought Lucroy in 2018 will possibly be having buyer's remorse by 2019 and we can give up a modest prospect and eat his contract to have him come back.

[bill hAll Star]

Appreciate the input. Again - just throwing this trade idea out there to get some conversation going.

 

No worries - you'll note that I am the original poster on this thread that went out of character saying we should eat the contract of Joe Mauer to bring back more value in a trade. I was throwing something a bit ridiculous out there as well, but I will say, in general, we don't need to fill 3B or catcher right now. Just restock the farm system and those positions will eventually get figured out.

[reillymcshane]

Now that it appears the Twins are getting Park, it appears that they may need to find a home for Plouffe - and they also still need to find a catcher. If you were both teams, would you do a deal like this:

 

Twins get:

Jonathan Lucroy

Will Smith

 

Brewers get:

Trevor Plouffe

Max Kepler

Kohl Stewart or Nick Burdi

 

I'd love to have Berrios, but I don't see anyway the Twins give him up, considering that they need good young pitching and Berrios appears to be close to being ready.

 

So, is this enough for Lucroy and Smith? Not enough? We'd have a 3B with pop locked into our lineup for the next few years, a young 1B who could be ready towards the later part of this upcoming season (after Lind is traded) and a nice young arm that we can take our time with and hope is ready by the start of the 2017 season.

This is going after quantity instead of quality.

 

If you trade Lucroy, you want a bonafide top level prospect. I'm talking a Top 20 guy. Kepler is a nice prospect, but far from can't miss type of guy.

 

Milwaukee needs to develop some all-star level players. Lucroy is your top trade bait, so like with Gomez, you use that to snag a top prospect.

 

We've discussed the Plouffe thing in depth. He's not needed at this time, and his inclusion only drags down the quality of prospects that you can get.

 

3B is a need, without a doubt, but you have the luxury of experimenting. Find a fringe player or two and give them a chance. Or grab a guy in Rule 5 that could stick. If it works out, the team gets a young 3B for low cost. If not, you try again in 2017.

[MNBrew]

A commonly shared opinion on a message board does not speak definitively for the Brewers' actual perspective. I'm not hot to trot to trade for Plouffe, but I also won't be disappointed if they do.

[JohnBriggs12]

Did the acquisition of John Ryan Murphy by the Twins satisfy their want for a catcher or was he acquired to add to a package they could offer to get Lucroy?

 

I've been skeptical that the Brewers would trade Lucroy unless they could get a decent young catcher back as part of the deal. I wouldn't be too excited about Murphy who's minor league numbers are ho hum but he's a young catcher with some upside and I think he could end up in a package.

[MNBrew]

I believe the answer to your question is the former and would guess the latter is either conjecture or pipe dream.

[JohnBriggs12]

I believe the answer to your question is the former and would guess the latter is either conjecture or pipe dream.

 

What do you base that on? Certainly all conjecture on my part but wouldn't a team that sees itself as a contender as I presume the Twins do, still want Lucroy rather than Murphy for the next couple seasons and wouldn't an offer for Lucroy be more tempting from the Brewers standpoint if it included a young catcher like Murphy?

[MNBrew]

Stearns has hinted at retaining Lucroy and the Brewers have Lucroy as the focus of a couple all-fan giveaways. If the Brewers were looking to trade him, you'd think they would've at least held off a while before focusing on Lucroy more than any other player in their 2016 giveaways.

[JohnBriggs12]

Stearns has hinted at retaining Lucroy and the Brewers have Lucroy as the focus of a couple all-fan giveaways. If the Brewers were looking to trade him, you'd think they would've at least held off a while before focusing on Lucroy more than any other player in their 2016 giveaways.

 

I'm in the sign Lucroy to an extension camp so I'm certainly not looking to pawn him off. But many out there think he's available so that's the reason for the speculation as the Twins were seen as a possible suitor. I'd hate to see Lucroy traded but if they did, I'd want a young and at least useable catcher who could at least split time with Maldonado back as part of the package and Murphy kind of fits that.

[bill hAll Star]

Here we go again. Murphy is a nice B-level major league player that is relatively young. He's a decent hitter and I'd assume a good defensive catcher.

 

If this rebuild takes 3 years and the Brewers aren't competitive until the 4th year...you really think they can't find a young prospect in the meantime through a trade or draft? I'll just sign my 28 year old version of Murphy if all else fails in 2018 or 2019. Murphy is only signed through 2020, which seems silly to worry about, but you'll basically have him on a 2-year contract when your hopeful extended window of contention begins.

 

Shoot for the stars. You can find a decent vet like the Cubs did with Miguel Montero to plug holes pretty easily if you completely strike out. I'll bet they can draft one or find one in a trade soon. No reason to go "oh no, I'm terrified that we won't have a league average catcher in 2019, so let's panic and get one right now."

 

The Twins kind of did this with Kurt Suzuki. They initially signed him as a cheap vet to fill some rebuilding years, he had a lucky BABIP year, and they signed him to a very regrettable extension that is basically a pile of burning money now that they are ready to contend again.

[pacopete4]

If this rebuild takes 3 years and the Brewers aren't competitive until the 4th year...

 

I really hope it doesn't take 4 years to get competitive. That is insane to me. There is enough young arms in this organization, many in which are close to the majors for it not to take that long. I can understand sucking next year because of pulling off a lot of these trades will leave holes that maybe we cannot fill but those holes should be filled sooner than four seasons from now.

[bill hAll Star]

If this rebuild takes 3 years and the Brewers aren't competitive until the 4th year...

 

I really hope it doesn't take 4 years to get competitive. That is insane to me. There is enough young arms in this organization, many in which are close to the majors for it not to take that long. I can understand sucking next year because of pulling off a lot of these trades will leave holes that maybe we cannot fill but those holes should be filled sooner than four seasons from now.

 

C - Montero

1B - Rizzo

2B - Castro/Baez

SS - Russell

3B - Bryant

LF - Schwarber

CF - ?

RF - Soler

Lester, Arrieta, and a dump truck full of money to sign more

 

C - Cervelli

1B - (?)

2B - Walker

SS - Kang

3B - Harrison

LF - Marte

CF - McCutchen

RF - Polanco

Cole, Tallion, Liriano, A bunch of other good prospects, a good pitching philosophy

 

The Cards - no need to list anything other than they have 1,000 guys in the minors that will go on to be All Stars.

 

Long story short, we're not going to be fighting back over .500 until 2018 realistically.

 

Any sort of quick rebuild would be shortsighted. I'm not sure what all of these "young arms" are. Sure, the outlook looks pretty nice, but I wouldn't just call the rebuild overwith and assume we have a Rays/Mets/Cardinals type of inflow of young pitchers ready to dominate. We're not even close to that. Nelson is a nice mid-rotation guy, Lopez has potential, Hader has potential, Davies is a nice long-term #5 type guy, Jungmann might be a low-end rotation guy but I still don't believe that...I know there are some lower-end minors guys that I'm not listing, but I'm not expecting a dominant rotation here. There is still a lot more work to do.