Mike Fiers No-Hits the Dodgers

[Invader3K]

So you all think that the Brewers traded a mid-3's ERA pitcher with 4.5 years of (cheap) team control left? How are you not furious about that trade then? The Brewers obviously don't think he is as good as his career stats to date, or they would not have traded him. Simple as that.

 

Dumb, dumb, dumb.........maybe it's the fact that the Brewers know they won't be good until 2017 and need talent to due so. So trade away a 30yr old pitcher for a stud OF prospect.

 

Exactly. This is the bottom line. We traded Fiers at the height of his value, which is basically what we needed to do this season with most of our veteran players.

 

Maybe Fiers goes on to be stellar for the next few seasons with the Astros. So what? We most certainly aren't competing again next season and will probably only start to be real contenders again in 2017, or more realistically 2018.

[hawing]

I'm 100% delighted for Mike. Besides the hardships mentioned earlier in this thread, remember that he took lumps from the national media last year after his pitch to Giancarlo Stanton. It's bittersweet for me that this happened just after his Brewers tenure, but I daresay he has earned this big moment, even if it proves to be his peak.

[folly412]

So you all think that the Brewers traded a mid-3's ERA pitcher with 4.5 years of (cheap) team control left? How are you not furious about that trade then? The Brewers obviously don't think he is as good as his career stats to date, or they would not have traded him. Simple as that.

 

Dumb, dumb, dumb.........maybe it's the fact that the Brewers know they won't be good until 2017 and need talent to due so. So trade away a 30yr old pitcher for a stud OF prospect.

 

Exactly. The position was that we were trading away a good 4/5 type starter who will be 33 by the time we intend to compete. If he were seen as a legitimate ace or if he were 25, maybe you hang onto him. I'll agree with Melvin's bet that the package he received from Houston will be more valuable in 2017-18 than what he had to give up.

[valpocrewsader]

Trading a pitcher who proceeds to throw a no hitter less than a month later is the most Brewers thing ever. Meanwhile, we keep waiting for our first one in ~30 years. This franchise ... so much pain.

[Thurston Fluff]

So you all think that the Brewers traded a mid-3's ERA pitcher with 4.5 years of (cheap) team control left? How are you not furious about that trade then? The Brewers obviously don't think he is as good as his career stats to date, or they would not have traded him. Simple as that.

 

Good players are only truly cheap their first three seasons. After that they get paid more in line with how good they are. If he keeps pitching the way he is he won't be cheap when he hits his arbitration years. The risk with him is more about how long he can maintain this level of play vs someone with better pure stuff. Guys with funky deliveries who rely on deception and location are going to be more of a risk to maintain their production than guys who have great stuff. If he can't maintain it he might be getting paid in his last couple arbitration years for being good in the first few years of his career. If that happens it would hardly be considered a value. Personally I hope he does keep it going. He is a great story and a very easy person to pull for.

[InProblematique]

Happy for Mike. I wrote an article on Bleacher Report in 2012 arguing that his curveball was the best pitch in that starting rotation. It looked fantastic last night, as well.

 

Some small compensation to see Domingo hit a homer in his Brewers debut. All of the guys we got in the GoGo/Fiers trade are looking pretty incredible right now. A debut homer isn't as flashy as a no-no, but it's something.

[SRB]

But we didn't trade Fiers for a stud OF prospect, we added Fiers to a Carlos Gomez package in order to get those stud OF. If you really think Fiers is as good as he has been so far in the majors, then it was a terrible return. Agree to disagree I guess.

 

FWIW, I liked the trade, but that's because I think the bottom is going to drop out with Fiers (my original point). I suspect the front office does as well.

[DocLuna7]

But we didn't trade Fiers for a stud OF prospect, we added Fiers to a Carlos Gomez package in order to get those stud OF. If you really think Fiers is as good as he has been so far in the majors, then it was a terrible return. Agree to disagree I guess.

 

FWIW, I liked the trade, but that's because I think the bottom is going to drop out with Fiers (my original point). I suspect the front office does as well.

 

Do you believe that we land those all four of those prospects from Houston without Mike Fiers in that deal?

[bjkrautk]

Do you believe that we land those all four of those prospects from Houston without Mike Fiers in that deal?

 

If memory serves, the talk around the deal was that Houston would not give Phillips without the Brewers adding Fiers to the deal. As someone who didn't think we'd get fair value by trading the guy going into the deadline, I was pleasantly mistaken by the quantity and quality of players we received....the most-touted of which only became available because of Fiers' addition.

 

Happy for Fiers in getting a no-hitter for his team in a pennant chase. While I wish it would have come earlier in the year (in a Brewers uniform), that's one of a whole lot of things which didn't go right this time around.

 

 

At least Santana lived up to the scouting reports last night; eager to see him get his opportunity over the next month.

[Funketown]

There's been talk around here of the bottom dropping out with Fiers just about as long as he'd been with the club.

 

Then it dropped out in the beginning of 2013.

 

Since then: 215 IP, 3.13 ERA, 9.3 K/9, 2.9 BB/9, 1.0 HR/9.

 

When he's had the opportunity to be in a major league rotation, he has been very good. I have no idea why major league hitters struggle with Fiers, but they've had difficulty with him for nearly 400 innings now. I always root for those types of players.

[LouisEly]

Since then: 215 IP, 3.13 ERA, 9.3 K/9, 2.9 BB/9, 1.0 HR/9.

And that's been pitching at least half of his games in a very hitter-friendly and HR-friendly ballpark.

[pacopete4]

If he's was 25-26 I might be upset they let him go. But he's on the verge of 31 and we are not close to competing. It was a good trade so far in terms of prospects. Hopefully they pan out for us.

[The stache]

Trading a pitcher who proceeds to throw a no hitter less than a month later is the most Brewers thing ever. Meanwhile, we keep waiting for our first one in ~30 years. This franchise ... so much pain.

 

Respectfully, I think trading away a 22 year old player who nearly wins the Triple Crown the very next season trumps a no hitter as being the most "Brewers thing ever."

[DocLuna7]

Trading a pitcher who proceeds to throw a no hitter less than a month later is the most Brewers thing ever. Meanwhile, we keep waiting for our first one in ~30 years. This franchise ... so much pain.

 

Respectfully, I think trading away a 22 year old player who nearly wins the Triple Crown the very next season trumps a no hitter as being the most "Brewers thing ever."

 

LOL, but we got Mieske!!!

[CheezWizHed]

So you all think that the Brewers traded a mid-3's ERA pitcher with 4.5 years of (cheap) team control left? How are you not furious about that trade then? The Brewers obviously don't think he is as good as his career stats to date, or they would not have traded him. Simple as that.

 

Personally, both Gomez and Fiers have some risk sure to age. That's why it took both of them to get the package we got. No one is saying Fiers is an ace. And Gomez might never hit 800 again. So to get back a player that might be better than Gomez next year, (and another of and two pitchers), we had to include an older number 3 pitcher.

[Thurston Fluff]

No one says he is an ace but his 215 IP, 3.13 ERA, 9.3 K/9, 2.9 BB/9, 1.0 HR/9 line kind of does. Obviously he also has no hit stuff. It seems odd nobody, myself included, look at everything but his numbers to determine what level pitcher he is.

[danzig6767]

There's been talk around here of the bottom dropping out with Fiers just about as long as he'd been with the club.

 

Then it dropped out in the beginning of 2013.

 

Since then: 215 IP, 3.13 ERA, 9.3 K/9, 2.9 BB/9, 1.0 HR/9.

 

When he's had the opportunity to be in a major league rotation, he has been very good. I have no idea why major league hitters struggle with Fiers, but they've had difficulty with him for nearly 400 innings now. I always root for those types of players.

Yea, usually when a guy only throws a 88-90mph fastball, they tend to be more of a Lohse command type of pitcher who gets outs more via weakly hit balls than Fiers who keeps up his high K totals. So many people kept believing it had to be from his funky delivery and thus once hitters see him a few times, those high strikeout totals would crater, but it's hard to find evidence that is the case. Hitters who have faced Fiers multiple times still swing and miss often, for whastever the reason, especially on that high riding fastball that they just can't lay off of.

 

I'm still plenty fine with the trade though. While i do believe Fiers will continue being a very solid starting pitcher, the Brewers play in the best division in baseball and so now is the perfect time to rebuild. Trading Gomez who had no long term future here and a starter on the wrong age of the curve made perfect sense.

[Boomer5]

The no hitter of course is icing on the cake on what has been a very bad year for the Brewers. However, it doesn't change that the Brewers are trading for young assets and Fiers brings more than Garza, so as they say it was what it was.

 

The early returns suggest the Brewers will have the much better end of the this trade as all 4 look very promising.

[homer]

So you all think that the Brewers traded a mid-3's ERA pitcher with 4.5 years of (cheap) team control left? How are you not furious about that trade then? The Brewers obviously don't think he is as good as his career stats to date, or they would not have traded him. Simple as that.

 

 

Because Fiers is 30 years old. If he was 26 it'd be a different story.

[reillymcshane]

Trading a pitcher who proceeds to throw a no hitter less than a month later is the most Brewers thing ever. Meanwhile, we keep waiting for our first one in ~30 years. This franchise ... so much pain.

 

Respectfully, I think trading away a 22 year old player who nearly wins the Triple Crown the very next season trumps a no hitter as being the most "Brewers thing ever."

 

LOL, but we got Mieske!!!

We got Boned in that trade.

 

I mean Bones.

[reillymcshane]

I think one reason the club let go of Fiers is how they are crafting the pitching staff. They are looking for groundball type guys, while Fiers is a pretty flyball pitcher. Peralta, Jungman and Nelson are all prototypes of who the team is looking fall - each throws low, induces lots of groundballs (all around 50%) and limit HRs. If you look at the guys we got back for Fiers, Gomez and Parra, i believe all of them fit the same mold (not positive on this, but that's what I believe I read).

 

I don't think the club is simply going to get rid of flyball pitchers - a good pitcher is a good pitcher - but when it came to part with a guy, he's the one that went.

 

I'm wondering if the team is looking at the success Pittsburgh has had - lots of defensive shifts, lots of ground balls - and see a model that might work at Miller Park. That means, of course, we need to be better defensively - something that could happen in the next couple of years as guys like Phillips, Taylor, Arcia and Reed get a crack at the majors. Sardinas and Rivera might get into the picture as well. All those guys should be good defensive players, and each will probably get a shot in the next 1-2 years.

 

Couple this with the fact that Fiers is in his prime right now - he'll never be better and never worth more - it made sense to deal him over the other guys we had. He certainly has done great the last year - no denying that - but longterm he probably wasn't a key player for Milwaukee.

[dlk9s]

HEY GUYS MIKE FIERS THREW A NO-HITTER SO THE TRADE WAS A BUST FOR THE BREWERS. I CAN'T BELIEVE MILWAUKEE IS GOING TO FALL INTO THE SEA.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

If the Brewers hung on to Fiers, they might be 54-71 or even 55-70 instead. The trade is obviously a bust.

[CheezWizHed]

I have no idea why major league hitters struggle with Fiers

 

I have no link (and probably too lazy to search. ), but I remember an analysis of Fier's pitches when he first came up to the MLB level to try to explain his high K rate. The summary was two main reasons:

1) A fastball that actually rose as it came to the plate and has an unusually high rise rate. The main reason why he was so successful on the high FB was that it looks lower, but goes up. Obviously that is rather unusual for most pitchers.

2) Was 4 quality pitches. He doesn't always have all four on a given day and some are better than others. But it gives him options when one pitch isn't working. And gives him different looks for different batters and multiple times through the lineup.

 

Edit: ok, maybe not so lazy. Hereis the Fangraphs pitch Fx for his no hitter. His FB was rising at 10-15 (inches?). Although, 2-3 years ago, there was an article that spoke to it in better detail.

 

Edit 2: I found the fangraphsarticle too. An excerpt (recognizing that it was written in 2014):

 

J.P. Breen pointed out back in 2012 that Fiers’ fastball, through his first month of MLB starts, had the third highest amount of vertical movement of any starting pitcher. Referring to pitch f/x again, we can see that although he doesn’t consistently have as much movement as he did when Breen wrote about him in May 2012, against LA Fiers had an average of 11.1 inches of vertical movement on his fastball.

[JohnBriggs12]

We'll never know what, if any, offer was on the table for Gomez alone from the Astros. For all we know Fiers might have been their original target and when the Gomez to the Mets deal fell through Brewers enticed Astros into taking Gomez for additional pieces. Regardless of whether he's 30 or 26, Fiers was controllable, cheap, healthy and an effective if not spectacular SP and giving up a guy like that is painful, especially considering the Brewer history with starting pitching. It looks like the Brewers got very good quality bats in Santana and Philips in the deal, but I'll reserve judgment on the young arms until I see them actually getting out major league hitters.