Doug Melvin steps down as GM; moves into advisory role

[DocLuna7]

Thank you Doug, for a lot of reasons. Hiring Doug Melvin was the right thing to do at the time, just as replacing him is the right thing to do today.

 

13 years at the helm is a long time for a GM, I support a change, but I'm also glad the team is keeping Doug around.

 

Sums up my position perfectly.

[monty57]

Well GMs focus much more on the free agents than they do drafting and developing.... A GM hires people he trust like Ray Montgomery and Nichols and let them do there thing while they focus on handling the major league roster. He has power and input in decisions, however, no GM in history could do their MLB stuff, developing players stuff, and drafting stuff. They simply find guys they trust and that mesh well with their long term goals.

 

Analytic focus helps bring right players to MLB club in trades, free agency, and managing 25 man roster(GMs key focus) for player development, it sets benchmarks for players. If player A has sustained success while having a FIP around this, BB% around that, and other advanced metrics that show they are ready to promote, they move up. Otherwise they keep working at mastering level they are at. For player scouting, it focuses scouts to certain skills and ability. Instead of targeting your boom or bust Jake Gatewoods who make little contact or walk little, you target your Trent Clark, Maverick Phillips, Michael Reec, Garrett Cooper type guys who are professional hitters who get on base.

 

So I will have to disagree that analytic framework and GMs are not useful. Or that the GMs job is to do and control every single aspect of the team and system. GM doesn't scout amatures in hs, college, independent ball. He doesn't often go scout other teams minor league players. He has people in place for those things

 

That could be said about any business. The president of a bank doesn't stand behind the teller lines and process every transaction. However, baseball teams are very small businesses with few employees, so the GM should know every one of them and at least have a clue about who they are and what they bring to the table.

 

If all the GM does is sign free agents and decide who gets called up/sent down from the MLB roster, he should work about 60 hours a year. Instead, he works about 60 hours a week worrying about every aspect of the team. Like any boss, he hires people and trusts them to a point, but he sure as heck better keep an eye on them and know what they're doing.

 

As to this move, I just hope there are clear lines defining what Melvin is going to do. It will be great if Melvin is there to give his opinion and answer questions, but it could get really ugly if Melvin is sitting next to Attanasio questioning the new GM's moves.

[danzig6767]

Glad to see this is happening.

 

The important question now is whether Attanasio will let the new GM set the direction without the owner continuing to play a quasi-GM role himself.

[LouisEly]

Thinking back to the interviews with MA that I've seen on the telecasts, he almost always references in some way their "analytics meetings". The Brewers aren't novices when it comes to analytics, and I think MA is the one leading the charge to incorporate them. My guess is that DM isn't so well versed with advanced analytics, but he sounds well-versed in the basics, so like others have mentioned perhaps this move is to find the yin and the yang: Melvin handles/teaches the traditional baseball side of the role, the relationships with other GMs, evaluating what is a good return on a trade, and perhaps his greatest skill which is identifying minor league free agents and waiver wire guys who have some major league potential to fill holes on the team. The new GM handles advanced analytics and learns the ropes from Melvin.

 

Who could forget his first move as a GM - selecting Scott Podsednik off waivers from Seattle. His next? Signing Brooks Kieschnick. Selecting Brady Clark off of waivers. Signing Danny Kolb as a free agent. Signing Alcides Escobar as an international free agent. Signing Doug Davis. Signing 3TO. He made the Brewers respectable very quickly. While the Amateur Scouting Director is primarily responsible for the draft, back before the days of a bonus pool and comp picks for unsigned players the GM was consulted on tough-to-sign picks. Outside of wanting to play chicken with Boras and Jered Weaver/Stephen Drew in 2004, the first two drafts of his tenure are generally considered two of the if not the two least talented drafts in recent history. Hard to build a winner with lean drafts like those. (While they struck out with Rogers in 2004, maybe they came out ahead with not picking Bailey, considering Cincy is paying him $10M to sit out this year with TJ surgery and $18M to recover from it next year.)

 

Like others have said, I'd give him a solid B. Not perfect, but came out on the better end of player decisions more often than not. He was the right person in 2002 and it is the right time for him to leave.

[SRB]

It's probably going to be Ray Montgomery, don't you think?

[brewmann04]

No think Ray stays as scouting director

[jerichoholicninja]

It's probably going to be Ray Montgomery, don't you think?

 

I would hope not. The guy has only been on the job a few months. Let him do his magic with what he's good at for awhile longer.

[Jenkins5]

I'm a big fan of the Analytic movement. You look at Theo Epstein and Jeff Luhnow have done, and that's with simply playing high school baseball, going off to school and grad school, entering business world, then knowing someone to get your foot in door in baseball. Luhnow did great things in St. Louis based around analytics and has continue with Houston.

 

One guy who is very interesting is Luhnows 30 year old assistant GM. Very impressive background!David Stearns!

 

 

"The 2015 season will mark David Stearns' third with the Houston Astros. In his current role, David, 30, assists General Manager Jeff Luhnow in all baseball operations capacities including player evaluations, player transactions, and contract negotiations and helps oversee the Astros' scouting, player development, and analytics departments.

 

Prior to joining the Astros, David served as the Director of Baseball Operations for the Cleveland Indians from 2011-2012. Stearns spent 2008-11 working in the MLB Office of the Commissioner, where he most recently held the position of Manager, Labor Relations. In that role, he assisted in the salary arbitration process, handling uniform player contracts and was a member of MLB's negotiating team for the recently completed Collective Bargaining Agreement.

 

Before joining the MLB Central Office, David worked in the Baseball Operations Departments of the New York Mets, Pittsburgh Pirates and the Arizona Fall League. He is a 2007 graduate of Harvard University."

 

I think you need to look at some of those young, smart, guys who have worked ways up for franchises who are being built the right way. To me that's St. Louis, Houston, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Giants, Blue Jays (they have had strong system that has allowed them to be aggressive) Rays, Cubs, Rangers and a few others.

 

What I don't want is a AJ Prellar who is an analytic guy who was prided on play development who then becomes GM sells off whole farm system to try to be George Steinbrenner....

[Jenkins5]

Mike Girsch, the assistant GM for Cardinals would be another good outside candidate as well.

[davego]

Going outside the organization seems to be a good move. Thanks to Doug for his years of service!

[torts]

Mike Girsch, the assistant GM for Cardinals would be another good outside candidate as well.

 

As long as he changes his passwords

[rickh150]

Bo Ryan should be available when next season begins.......

[patrickgpe]

I think the brewers should go outside of the organization. Ray Montgomery is in his second stint with the brewers. I think the brewers need someone who can come in and evaluate the ENTIRE organization. I am not sure if Montgomery is that guy, although i wouldn't be necessarily upset if he was the guy. The issue though is that you would have to hire another new scouting director would behind the 8 ball for a very important draft, with a top 5 pick most likely.

[502 to Right]

I want the next Theo Epstein. Although I grew up in Wisconsin I was a Marine stationed in Rhode Island in 1999 and picked up a very bad Red Sox habit. I have followed Theo Epstein since day 1 of his GM career and I am firmly convinced that his philosophies are the way to build a winning baseball team. And for the record, Theo has always preached a balance between analytics and traditional scouting.

[TooLiveBrew]

Thank you Doug, for a lot of reasons. Hiring Doug Melvin was the right thing to do at the time, just as replacing him is the right thing to do today.

 

13 years at the helm is a long time for a GM, I support a change, but I'm also glad the team is keeping Doug around.

 

Sums up my position perfectly.

Nail on the head for me as well.

 

Doug has always seemed like a good man, & has fostered a happy & positive culture in the clubhouse over the years. I'd much rather just flat-out win, but seeing the players happy & enjoying each other along the way has always meant something to me as well.

 

Maybe this is Captain Obvious stuff, but the next hire is going to be massively important. Aside from market size, it's an attractive position imo. Solid farm system & you'll be sitting very high in the draft order in your first year. So there's good young talent in place, & you have the chance to come in and possibly add the top prospect into the org with the first draft pick next June.

 

I hope the club is not only serious about finding a fresher-minded GM, but more importantly I hope they're capable of that. It takes talent to spot fresh new talent.

[homer]

We need a GM that values RBIs

[dlk9s]

Runs Batted Ins

[rickh150]

Melvin....Good... Not great. Definitely not bad. Yet, time to go...or I should say fill another role to help team succeed.

 

First off, in baseball, money matters. Money allows a team to make more mistakes with free agents. Money covers major injuries to key role players. Money gets you international stars from Central America a few weeks after the team exits the playoffs. Melvin didn't have these luxuries.

 

If the Brewers had more shared revenue, alas Packers, they would have been able to sign Fielder and one of CC or Greinke. This alone would have given the team a couple more playoff births, and possibly a trip or two to the World Series. Baseball economics, big tv money, and no universal draft make it difficult (but not impossible) for small market teams to succeed for even 3 to 5 year stretches.

 

The Brewers have competed for the playoff almost yearly during Melvin's time. Each year, fans came out in big numbers because the roster gave fans hope of the playoffs. There was hope that the playoff were not that big of a stretch..... Not anymore. Not like the late 80's and 90's. He had two playoffs in 13 years. Prior, the Brewers made the playoffs twice in 32 years (a couple more if the wild card(s) is there).

 

Could another GM have done better? Sure. Yet many more would have done worse, in my opinion.

[MrTPlush]

That's is the thing: Melvin wasn't great, but he also wasn't bad. How many of these great GMs are there? I think I could count them on one hand. So yeah Melvin didn't end up being the great savior, but those are hard to come by and I wouldn't ever hold my breath on it ever happening. Teams win the WS with normal GMs like Melvin.

 

On another note I am surprised no one on here has mentioned Attanasio actually talk about his planned rebuild. He would like it to be done in 2-3 years, BUT would not try to force it too quickly. So it is nice to see Attanasio commit to a rebuild.

[Jenkins5]

I really like Ray Montgomery but feel he will need to find a young, smart analytic, director of scouting to be his assistant GM if hired. Ray knows baseball and has a great eye for talent. He is your old school guy who just can sit down, watch kids play, and see what they someday will become. Essentially a Billy Beane type former player/scout GM. Baseball is changing though as Melvin said and if Brewers are going to evolve with the league, they need to bring in one of those type of guys to match up with Ray. Same as Billy did when he found Paul Depodesta.

[LouisEly]

I think that's why Ray's good for the role he has. You really can't use analytics much to evaluate amateur players; it's hard to translate college, and almost impossible to translate HS analytics if they are even available, to the pros. Analytics are most relevant for players that have been in pro ball, and have had professional-level coaching, for at least three years.

[1992casey]

I think you need to look at some of those young, smart, guys who have worked ways up for franchises who are being built the right way. To me that's St. Louis, Houston, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Giants, Blue Jays (they have had strong system that has allowed them to be aggressive) Rays, Cubs, Rangers and a few others.

 

What I don't want is a AJ Prellar who is an analytic guy who was prided on play development who then becomes GM sells off whole farm system to try to be George Steinbrenner....

I added the bold to the quote above. I wonder if there are any women in the mix.

 

Anyway, I want someone who can implement solid orginazational philosophies as far as hitting and pitching. There's discussion in last night's in-game thread about how the Cubs hitters are able to work counts. This needs to start with the GM, and the managers, coaches and players need to be on board.

 

Also, I'd like to see someone who can rebuild patiently. If the GM is less apt to decimate the minor league system in order to "win now," teardowns should become less necessary. Keeping the minors stocked should be an ongoing process. Of course, a philosophy like this needs support from ownership.

[Boomer5]

I think you need to look at some of those young, smart, guys who have worked ways up for franchises who are being built the right way. To me that's St. Louis, Houston, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Giants, Blue Jays (they have had strong system that has allowed them to be aggressive) Rays, Cubs, Rangers and a few others.

 

What I don't want is a AJ Prellar who is an analytic guy who was prided on play development who then becomes GM sells off whole farm system to try to be George Steinbrenner....

I added the bold to the quote above. I wonder if there are any women in the mix.

 

Anyway, I want someone who can implement solid orginazational philosophies as far as hitting and pitching. There's discussion in last night's in-game thread about how the Cubs hitters are able to work counts. This needs to start with the GM, and the managers, coaches and players need to be on board.

 

Also, I'd like to see someone who can rebuild patiently. If the GM is less apt to decimate the minor league system in order to "win now," teardowns should become less necessary. Keeping the minors stocked should be an ongoing process. Of course, a philosophy like this needs support from ownership.

 

Amen! Look at Jack Clark's career. Notice when he took off from a good player to the kind of player we need Santana and Davis to become:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/clarkja01.shtml

 

That's a organizational philosophy, not a specific skill set for a player. Its not a coincidence how the Cubs went from a bunch of clowns to a 40 pitch inning team.

[CheezWizHed]

Sorry the lack of a link, but I was reading a bit about this yesterday and it talked about how these past trades were done with a mix of the "traditional scouting" and the analytics. And I think most people are pretty universally liking the people we got back. Compared to the normal mixed reaction in the past.

 

Proof will be in the impact of those people at the MLB level, but its nice to see that they are trying to modernize.

[thebruce44]

I added the bold to the quote above. I wonder if there are any women in the mix.

The only woman who would be considered would be Kim Ng and I would guess she would at least get an interview.