Braun- looking like second half 2014

[LouisEly]

In 2012 Braun was tested for PEDs more than any other player in baseball. And yet he put up perhaps the best year of his career. Testing technology isn't going to regress from 2011 to 2012.

[AKCheesehead]

A big part of it is the lineup (protection, other hitters to fear in the batting order) and the fact that we are more often than not playing from behind. He's still a very good hitter and he's the guy the other teams go into the game with the approach "let's not let this guy beat us today."

[AKCheesehead]

LE- I'm not disagreeing with you. But do we know this? I've heard it said many times. But, does the union actually let MLB single out a player and test them more than the other players? How much more was Braun tested in 2012? Again, i'm not arguing. I'm just curious if there's proof he was tested as extensively in 2012 as we all assume. Because that would be very interesting to learn more about.

[logan82]

A big part of it is the lineup (protection, other hitters to fear in the batting order) and the fact that we are more often than not playing from behind. He's still a very good hitter and he's the guy the other teams go into the game with the approach "let's not let this guy beat us today."

No.

 

I'm sure hitting in front of Prince Fielder had something to do with it? I'm sure there's a way to prove this, number of strikes he saw back then vs now but I won't take the time to look it up.

 

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2015/5/19/8614817/lineup-protection-myth-reality-exists

 

Sullivan’s 2012 findings corroborate a direct statement Donaldson offers and that many of the other players and managers cited above and in Laurila's account expressed in various forms: "People are going to pitch to you the way they’re going to pitch to you." While protection is on the mind of the managers and pitchers, it doesn’t trump the more immediate matter of pitching to the batter standing sixty feet away.

[tmwiese55]

I think along with the thumb injury teams figured out to just pound him low and outside. Basically the only pitches he gets are high tight heaters, low outside breaking pitches, low outside heaters. At the end of last year and until May he hadn't figured it out yet, now he has but it limits him to going opposite a ton. Teams still keep doing it because it still does minimize him to a degree. Starting in May he pretty much stopped chasing the low outside slider out of the zone and it's made a huge difference. Like last night, if they have hang a breaking pitch, he usually crushes it to left.

[LouisEly]

LE- I'm not disagreeing with you. But do we know this? I've heard it said many times. But, does the union actually let MLB single out a player and test them more than the other players? How much more was Braun tested in 2012? Again, i'm not arguing. I'm just curious if there's proof he was tested as extensively in 2012 as we all assume. Because that would be very interesting to learn more about.

Yes, it is policy for MLB to test those who have failed a test more often. I'm trying to find specific reference to Braun, but my understanding is that he was the only one of the Biogenesis group to actually fail a test - the rest were caught in the records. If the others didn't fail a test, then they probably cannot be tested more often, and thus Braun was tested more than they were.

 

Bottom of the article confirms, generically, that if a player fails a test they are tested more often (a good read by the way):

 

http://www.jsonline.com/news/health/up-to-20-major-league-players-to-be-suspended-but-not-because-of-stringent-tests-b9939132z1-215413631.html

[tmwiese55]

Question would of course be whether he counted as a failed test since it got overturned. Who knows. He would have to be an absolute moron to continue after though. Granted, he was an idiot if he took in the playoffs when he knows everyone will be tested in the playoffs though.

[MrTPlush]

I can almost bet he was not tested more in 2012 as his failed test was thrown out...So really the failed test just dissapears. MLBPA would not allow such extra testing on Braun in 2012. You can't just test him more due to a test that was thrown out...at least not quietly.

 

And why not keep using? It is quite clear it isn't very hard to not test positive. When Biogenesis came out I believe there were only 3 players to ever test positive. Not to mention A-Rod has been a career user and has never tested positive(or was he before they were enforcing it?). Regardless many players used them and many still do while passing their tests. Claiming Braun didn't use them in 2012 or at any point prior to 2011 just because he didn't have a positive test is foolish.

[tmwiese55]

Well I'd say foolish is a strong word. Why stop? because another failed test would absolutely ruin him, he could overcome the initial thrown out thing based on his story. Another fail would kill his image/pr/reputation, just like it did when he was caught in the biogen scandal. I would definitely wager on the side that he hasn't used since being caught at the end of 2011, and I think most would agree with me.

[FVBrewerFan]

While protection is on the mind of the managers and pitchers, it doesn’t trump the more immediate matter of pitching to the batter standing sixty feet away.

 

The article you cited actually proves the point that protection exists. Do some people over-inflate how much? Sure, I agree with you there. But it does exist. And I still believe that plays in a role in why Braun isn't a .950+ guy anymore. Some day I'll look this up, but I would bet he saw more strikes (and FB strikes at that) back when Prince was behind him.

[MrTPlush]

Well I'd say foolish is a strong word. Why stop? because another failed test would absolutely ruin him, he could overcome the initial thrown out thing based on his story. Another fail would kill his image/pr/reputation, just like it did when he was caught in the biogen scandal. I would definitely wager on the side that he hasn't used since being caught at the end of 2011, and I think most would agree with me.

 

If he was so scared of his image being ruined he wouldn't have used PEDs in the first place so I am not really buying that argument. It was actually probably less of a risk after that because everyone outside of Milwaukee already hated him so what was there to lose? Not too much. The first test already killed everything outside of Milwaukee.

[tmwiese55]

Well I'd say foolish is a strong word. Why stop? because another failed test would absolutely ruin him, he could overcome the initial thrown out thing based on his story. Another fail would kill his image/pr/reputation, just like it did when he was caught in the biogen scandal. I would definitely wager on the side that he hasn't used since being caught at the end of 2011, and I think most would agree with me.

 

If he was so scared of his image being ruined he wouldn't have used PEDs in the first place so I am not really buying that argument. It was actually probably less of a risk after that because everyone outside of Milwaukee already hated him so what was there to lose? Not too much. The first test already killed everything outside of Milwaukee.

 

Pointless to argue with you on this man. T-Swizz knows all, haters gonna hate. I actually think your remembrance of his rep among fans in 2012 is way off, most people thought he got screwed and was innocent and his monster season validated that, there were lots of people wearing Braun t-shirt jerseys with Innocent in the name area instead of Braun, saw plenty of custom made ones too. I believe he got a standing ovation the first game. It's pretty obvious why one would stop after the failed test. Without the subsequent events he would still be a hero in MKE rather than kind of a 50/50 split like it is now, and even people that generally support him now aren't about to pound their chests about him or anything. He also still could have made the Hall with a spotless career after. Why watch baseball with such a negative view of everything due something really so minor, why not just enjoy life and the competition of the game.

[homer]

Let's keep the debate on Braun's 2nd half of this year and away from the steroids stuff. Thanks.

[bill hAll Star]

You guys are missing the biggest factor. I'd have to think money would be a concern (yes, I know he has more money than anyone ever needs).

 

Why stop? Because his next suspension will cost him $20 million dollars (162 games), and if he was stupid enough to get another one, he'd void the rest of his contract by being banned from MLB (whatever is left of his $100+ million dollar deal if that happened).

[bill hAll Star]

OK, back on topic then:

 

With Attanasio actually sounding like he's OK with a rebuild...when/for what would you be OK with trading Braun for? Would you take less to get the deal done? Would you pay for a year or two of the deal to do it?

 

I would be fascinated to know what, if anything, would be offered in return.

[tmwiese55]

Let's keep the debate on Braun's 2nd half of this year and away from the steroids stuff. Thanks.

 

3/4 again today. I'm actually surprised by the recent hot spell from him, I didn't like a lot of his body language right after the deadline when they started losing hard. I went to two of the cubs games and he didn't seem to enthused at all, thought he might drop off a bit to finish the year. I suppose everyone's body language was rough thought right after the deadline as they had been playing well the last few months and then pulled the plug. Only natural to be a little down.

[Outlander]

Nice to see Braun playing well in the second half of the season. Might be one of the few bright spots the remainder of the year.

[pogokat]

I know this isn't about his steroid stuff, but Rotoworld just posted an update that mentioned that Alex Gordon is lookin for a 7 year 130 million contract like the one that Shin Soo Choo got two years ago. statistically and age wise, Gordon is Braun's equal---really, Braun is better, but for the benefit of this argument, i'll make them equal.

 

I'm just pointing this out because when Gordon gets dumb money this winter, it will validate that braun's contract, while not a great deal, is about market correct. He's not going to be overpaid until the last year or so of the extension, and maybe he can pull over good value then too---we don't know what above average outfield production will be worth in the 2020's...

[tmwiese55]

Is Gordon a FA after this year? 31 yrs old now, so he'd be 38/39 at the end getting almost 20 per. And his best case offensive through his prime years thus far has been worse than Braun's post ped/thumb version he is right now. I know he's a good defender but so was Braun when he was in left. Ideally Braun's extension would be a year or two less but it also could've been much worse.

[Outlander]

Braun's OPS this month was his highest since August 2012.

[pacopete4]

If his batting average was more towards his career norm, his stats would look very similar to MVP Braun. It would be really cool if some of the young guys sped up their process so we can surround Braun/Lucroy with some good players and make another run in the next year or two.

[reillymcshane]

Is Gordon a FA after this year? 31 yrs old now, so he'd be 38/39 at the end getting almost 20 per. And his best case offensive through his prime years thus far has been worse than Braun's post ped/thumb version he is right now. I know he's a good defender but so was Braun when he was in left. Ideally Braun's extension would be a year or two less but it also could've been much worse.

Gordon has a player's option for 2016 - I think $13M or so. Before the season he said he'd exercise it, but then backed off that comment. Most people expect him to become a FA. He needs to cash in before he gets too old.

 

Gordon is an excellent defender in left - Braun was average at best - but Braun has the better stick.

 

I think Gordon's going to end up resigning with KC - perhaps even before free agency starts. Just my guess from things I've read. He seems pretty attached to KC - and KC to him. His defense is still excellent, which will help him maintain a positive value. And in the end, I don't know if he is one of those guys looking to break the bank. He might go for something slightly shorter and of less value than he might get on the open market. Again, just my speculation.

[torts]

Brauns slash for the month of august is .326/.576/.970 with 17 runs, 6 2B, 5 HR and 14 RBI's with 10 BB and 20 K's, all while the team went 11-15

[BrewCrewForever]

Braun, maybe not the Braun of his mid to late 20's, but still a very good All-Star caliber OF. Outside shot at a Silver Slugger in the OF this year I would think.

[pacopete4]

One more big month like August was and it'll be real interesting to see how close his numbers are to his "prime" years.