Broxton to Cardinals for MiLB OF Malik Collymore

[torts]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0K0pGVsl8U

 

yes, thats Billy Hamilton fast....

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=22979

 

Billy Hamilton is exceptionally fast for a baseball player. A few objective and relatively standardized times we have for him, of varying credibility:

 

The 60. In a number of online forums, he’s reported to have run a 60-yard dash in 6.5 seconds. Further, a number of other prospects’ 60-yard dash times are said to be similar to Hamilton’s when they are around 6.5 seconds. This would be tremendously valuable information, as Washington raced in the 60 (in a world record 5.8 seconds, though obviously not in baseball spikes). Further, because the 60 is baseball’s “official” timing length, like the 40 is for football, countless baseball players have recorded 60-yard times to compare against. Alas, though, there’s no origin for the time, and Sports Illustrated's Chen wrote in late 2012 that “he’s never been timed in the 60-yard dash.”

[3and2Fastball]

An athlete like that, you take a flyer on. Why not? Broxton wasn't going to bring back much anyways.

 

Personally I've often felt that a speedster who can pinch run in key spots is a better use for the 25th spot on the roster that a back end of a bullpen guy. Of course in the National League it would help if he could at least play some strong defense somewhere too

[folly412]

If they took on anything over $20 of Broxton's salary it nets a positive.

 

Oh, and

 

http://31.media.tumblr.com/e524c401e6c07e7cdaa6e5e52363c47d/tumblr_mkhk03fCDr1r4wvwvo1_250.gif

[markedman5]

@Joelsherman1: #Cardinals getting $3M from #Brewers in Broxton deal, but $2M of it is contingent on STL not exercising '16 option to cover buyout.

[Point Beer Is Best]

@Joelsherman1: #Cardinals getting $3M from #Brewers in Broxton deal, but $2M of it is contingent on STL not exercising '16 option to cover buyout.

 

So the Brewers are sending $1mil for sure. And if the Cardinals buy his option out for $2 mil, the Brewers kick in that cash. But if the Cardinals exercise his option for 2016, they are on the hook for that. Am I understanding that correctly?

[torts]

If they took on anything over $20 of Broxton's salary it nets a positive.

 

Oh, and

 

http://31.media.tumblr.com/e524c401e6c07e7cdaa6e5e52363c47d/tumblr_mkhk03fCDr1r4wvwvo1_250.gif

 

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5hf6mSrDZ1r5vjsf.gif

[LouisEly]

@Joelsherman1: #Cardinals getting $3M from #Brewers in Broxton deal, but $2M of it is contingent on STL not exercising '16 option (to cover buyout).

 

So the Brewers are sending $1mil for sure. And if the Cardinals buy his option out for $2 mil, the Brewers kick in that cash. But if the Cardinals exercise his option for 2016, they are on the hook for that. Am I understanding that correctly?

Yep. Broxton was owed ~$3M for the rest of the year, so the Brewers save $2M in the deal and get a high-upside low-level long shot.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

So we owe him $3.3mm rest of this year and $1mm buyout...saves us $1.3mm and we get a prospect. Sounds good.

 

edit: We kick in $3mm. Buyout goes up by $1mm when he's traded. I think that knocks down the savings from $2.3mm to $1.3mm.

[Lee16]

We had to send the extra million to cover the increase in the post game buffet budget for the rest of the season.

[WinkelsasVsSoriano]

Anyone know if the Brewers plan to keep him in the OF, or put him back at 2B? I think he was a second baseman till around 2014 when he was moved to LF. I would love to see him back at second, especially since I feel like the Crew have more OF prospects. Anyone know how his defense was at either position?

[hawing]

Late to the party, but is anyone else marveling at how the Brewers were able to move Broxton and not K-Rod? (I'd add "and Lind" if he hadn't just had the back flare up.)

 

I'm assuming by the time Jonathan is in line to save Game 7 of the 2015 World Series, I will have long stopped watching MLB for the year.

[nate82]

Late to the party, but is anyone else marveling at how the Brewers were able to move Broxton and not K-Rod? (I'd add "and Lind" if he hadn't just had the back flare up.)

 

Lohse, Garza, K-Rod, Lind, and Cotts will all be placed on waivers at some point in August Garza, Lind, and Cotts are the only ones that I believe will be claimed and pulled back due to a deal not being made. Lohse and K-Rod should pass through waivers. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Angels put a claim on Garza or trading for Lohse in August. Lohse will probably not get the Brewers much of anything but Garza may get the Brewers at least one decent prospect.

[danzig6767]

Late to the party, but is anyone else marveling at how the Brewers were able to move Broxton and not K-Rod? (I'd add "and Lind" if he hadn't just had the back flare up.)

 

I'm assuming by the time Jonathan is in line to save Game 7 of the 2015 World Series, I will have long stopped watching MLB for the year.

K-Rod has another year on his deal, unlike Broxton who had a buyout.

[MillerParkSouth]

If someone claims Garza, we should just let them have him. I'm guessing he goes unclaimed for that reason. Can't see anyone wanting that contract with his current performance level.

[LouisEly]

The Red Sox gave Porcello $21M/year, and he's never been anything special. No decent free agent starting pitcher can be signed for anything near the 2 years, $30M that Garza has left; they'll cost way more than that, or come with significant injury history/risk. Garza has a very successful track record - there will be no shortage of teams willing to take a chance that he will revert to career norms.

 

Besides, why not wait to see if he'll rebound and then trade him at the deadline next year? This year is definitely the career outlier, and he's only 31, not 36 like Lohse.

[MrTPlush]

The Red Sox gave Porcello $21M/year, and he's never been anything special. No decent free agent starting pitcher can be signed for anything near the 2 years, $30M that Garza has left; they'll cost way more than that, or come with significant injury history/risk. Garza has a very successful track record - there will be no shortage of teams willing to take a chance that he will revert to career norms.

 

Besides, why not wait to see if he'll rebound and then trade him at the deadline next year? This year is definitely the career outlier, and he's only 31, not 36 like Lohse.

 

People love to use that Porcello deal for comparison, but really how is he similar to Garza? Porcello was extremely young for a FA at that time and Red Sox were banking on potential. Garza is extremely old with no future upside. Not to mention most hated that Porcello deal when it happened.

 

If someone claims Garza I can almost guarantee that team is going to get him. Unless the Brewers really have hope he can turn it around to be a good trade chip. Which is understandable, but I'd let any team have him considering they would take his full contract. I don't think there are teams lining up to take a chance on him. If that was the case he would already be gone since reports stated the Brewers really wanted to get out of his contract.

[trwi7]

No decent free agent starting pitcher can be signed for anything near the 2 years, $30M that Garza has left; they'll cost way more than that, or come with significant injury history/risk. Garza has a very successful track record - there will be no shortage of teams willing to take a chance that he will revert to career norms.

 

I just don't get this line of thinking. If several teams are willing to take a chance on him, why is he still a Brewer? It's not like the Brewers weren't trying to get rid of him. He's still here, that shows how much interest other teams have in him imo.

 

They may have interest if we throw in a bunch of money to cover the contract or add a good prospect to sweeten taking on his contract but it's pretty clear no team wants him because he's a pitcher with a track record. If that was the case, he wouldn't be a Brewer anymore.

[MNBrew]

The Red Sox gave Porcello $21M/year, and he's never been anything special. No decent free agent starting pitcher can be signed for anything near the 2 years, $30M that Garza has left; they'll cost way more than that, or come with significant injury history/risk. Garza has a very successful track record - there will be no shortage of teams willing to take a chance that he will revert to career norms.

....

People love to use that Porcello deal for comparison, but really how is he similar to Garza? Porcello was extremely young for a FA at that time and Red Sox were banking on potential. Garza is extremely old with no future upside. Not to mention most hated that Porcello deal when it happened.

- Porcello wasn't a FA. Last winter was his last pre-FA arbitration winter. He was traded to Boston, who then signed him to the current contract.

 

- Garza's 31. That's not extremely old at all. Past mid-point or past prime? Quite possibly. But not anywhere near extremely old.

 

- I don't get the bias in your view that Porcello's deal isn't a comparable one to Garza when Porcello's never been anywhere near the pitcher that Garza has. He came up with more fanfare and promise, yes, but he hasn't delivered better results on the whole -- nowhere close. . . . Keeping it simple, prior to this year, Garza has had fewer years with a >4.00 ERA (1 out of his 9) than Porcello has had with a <4.00 ERA (2 out of his 6). Garza's career ERA coming into this year was about 3.65 and Porcello's was 4.30, with Porcello's entire career up to that point at spacious Comerica Park while Garza spent 5.5 of his seasons at hitters parks (Metrodome, Wrigley, & Miller Park). . . .

 

- If you don't like Garza and you do view Porcello with at least some favor, that's your opinion & that's fine. However, it doesn't adequately counter the strong argument that LouisEly makes that any solid, credible (read: non-bargain-bin, non-injury-rebound) FA SP with a decent track record is likely to get a contract with a greater AAV than Garza's current deal.

[MrTPlush]

I'm not disagreeing with the general point that Garza's contract isn't unreasonable(if he was pitching well), but comparing him to Porcello is just flat out wrong. Porcello is much younger and was still considered to have a lot of potential. So while his stats were similar to Garza's his whole contract would be in prime years and the potential to be better was there. Which is why his contract is way more than Garza's.

 

That being said if Garza was pitching to a solid <4ERA there would be interest at his modest salary. However he has looked rather poor all year.

[LouisEly]

The Brewers know that they have time to shop Garza, so there is no urgency. Moving other guys was a priority, and you can only make so many deals within a couple of days while still maintaining quality negotiation tactics. Trade negotiations aren't a 2-minute phone call. Garza's value is lower because of the way he's been pitching this season, but it isn't low. The Brewers know that there is a good chance they can get more for him if they wait. So why not wait?

 

Here's the career lines of two starting pitchers:

 

Pitcher A: 104 ERA+, 3.99 FIP, 1.292 WHIP, 8.7 H/9, 7.4 K/9, 3.0 BB/9, 1.0 HR/9

Pitcher B: 94 ERA+, 4.09 FIP, 1.367 WHIP, 10.1 H/9, 5.7 K/9, 2.3 BB/9, 1.0 HR/9

 

Ignoring that one has pitched primarily in hitters parks and the other in pitchers parks, which one would you give a big contract to?

 

Thank you MNBrew for highlighting the main point. What free agent starting pitcher that is a) the same age or younger than Garza, and b) not coming off of a major injury/having a history of arm trouble will sign for less than 2/$30M? Kazmir missed two years with arm trouble (and he looked washed up in 2010, worse than Garza this year), which is why he didn't get a big, long contract. But how much do you think he'll sign for this offseason?

[MrTPlush]

Well I would hope Scott Kazmir would get a pretty healthy pay check. He has had 3 solid years in a row and most importantly is pitching lights out this year leading into free agency. Are you saying you think Garza pitching like this could land 2/$30mil this winter? Who, over the age of 30, has ever managed to get that money pitching as badly as he has? I'm not saying there isn't...but can you provide anyone? Not to mention he has that option that could be pretty expensive if he just stays healthy. So really you are looking at more than a $30mil investment possibly.

 

I can recall some guys getting 1/$8mil or so...maybe a a couple getting about the same amount over two years...but $30mil? I can't say anyone comes to mind.

[patrickgpe]

Late to the party, but is anyone else marveling at how the Brewers were able to move Broxton and not K-Rod? (I'd add "and Lind" if he hadn't just had the back flare up.)

 

I'm assuming by the time Jonathan is in line to save Game 7 of the 2015 World Series, I will have long stopped watching MLB for the year.

I'm assuming this has a lot to do with the brewers giving him a second year. still don't know why a team like the cards wouldn't want K-rod for their pen down the stretch and not worry about next season.

[SRB]

We could have easily moved K-Rod if we settled for partial salary relief and a flier like Collymore. I'm assuming that Melvin was (rightfully) demanding a more premium return given how good K-Rod has been yet again, and there just wan't a big market for closers (did any end up moving?).

[Thurston Fluff]

Late to the party, but is anyone else marveling at how the Brewers were able to move Broxton and not K-Rod? (I'd add "and Lind" if he hadn't just had the back flare up.)

 

I'm assuming by the time Jonathan is in line to save Game 7 of the 2015 World Series, I will have long stopped watching MLB for the year.

 

Personally I don't think they want to trade K-Rod. Or maybe the better way to put it is they know K-Rod signed a deal with us specifically because he likes it here and they are respecting his desire to stay. It might just be one of those things where taking player's desire into account helps the organization more than a prospect would. I usually am not that big on that sort of thing but from everything I've read or heard K-Rod has taken on the role of mentor in the pen. While that might not be a good thing off the field, he certainly has been professional in every respect on it. It really doesn't hurt to have someone with his track record (on the field) helping young relievers learn how to handle the job.

[Austin Tatious]

My hunch is the Brewers moved some pieces this year, and will move a second wave next year. The reason is that some guys will be more moveable next year. Some teams may not have wanted to pay all the K Rod money but next year on a rental it may be more palatable. So, let's hope his performance is still solid and we can hopefully get an ok return for him next year. This year, money was more of an obstacle. Relievers can be harder to move anyway as Chapman and Kimbrel didn't move either.

 

Maybe a guy like Lind can be moved in the winter during the hot stove. A couple of my Cardinals buddies claim their side of the story is the Brewers wanted more than Kaminsky for Lind. They are upset they didn't get Lind instead of Moss.

 

Then, at some point, maybe Braun can be moved in a similar manner as Tulowitzki. Let's hope he gets somewhere near 30 and 100 to go with his all star appearance. Sure, he's got a huge contract. But, if you look around, teams are really struggling to score runs. It's a battle. This is a run producer. The Brewers don't have large contracts on the books. Look at all the money they have jettisoned. One way to play it is to absorb money to buy prospects. The Rockies did it with TT. Some of the Braun theories with the Dodgers may have legs.

 

Garza may be hopeless. Who knows, he's only 31. Maybe in the offseason he can develop a pitching plan and resurrect himself. Look at how Scott Kazmir turned himself around after being on the scrap heap with the Angels. Adjust your pitching style, formulate a better plan, things of that nature. If he can, and as less years remain, who knows. Right now, I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

The Brewers and Melvin have had this flaw with free agents, especially pitchers. To get them to Milwaukee they will add add that painful extra year taking players past a comfortable age that other teams won't put on, or pay extra, etc. Guys in their 30s, the veterans. Then, the players bite and come to Milwaukee. Melvin really trusts those veteran starters. Braden Looper. Suppan. Wolfie. Lohse. The extra year of Ramirez at $15 mil.