Gomez and Fiers to Houston for four prospects

[Eye Black]

* Phillips is in Colorado Springs (AAA)

* Santana is joining Victor Roache, Tyrone Taylor, and Michael Reed in Biloxi (AA)

You have that backwards, Santana is headed to AAA, and Phillips to AA.

[clancyphile]

* Phillips is in Colorado Springs (AAA)

* Santana is joining Victor Roache, Tyrone Taylor, and Michael Reed in Biloxi (AA)

You have that backwards, Santana is headed to AAA, and Phillips to AA.

 

My bad. I'll fix in the post, but I think the general point still stands.

[NievesNoNO]

I respect your love for Gomez, I'm just saying that it's stupid.

 

Totally unnecessary condescension.

I appreciate the want to keep the board civil. I appreciate the ability to have a favorite player. One of my all time favorite Milwaukee Bucks is Ervin "no magic" Johnson. But I'm not putting him in the same category as Cummings, Alcindor, Bridgeman etc. Sometimes condescending leads to clarity. People want to put Go Go in the same category as the greats in MILW. It's just not right in the context used. I love Quevado, winkelesass, spivey, overbay, Branyon and Deer. But just like those guys, Gomez is a tool player. As in he is a "tool" in baseball circles of people that know what real 5 tool players are. Gomez is an athlete that plays baseball. Know any hall of famers that swing out of there helmet regularly? He is a cog and we got what we deserved in a trade. If Gomez is your favorite player since Molitor because he is the best since then, I'm standing by stupid

 

Oh good you're a Molitor fan too!! There was no context other than he's been my favorite Brewer player to watch since Molitor. There was no comparison made. I enjoy watching them for two completely different reasons. Molitor had one of the most pure swings of all time, which also allowed him to stand the test of time and be very good late into his career. As you say, Gomez is an athlete playing baseball. He's one of the very best athletes the Brewers have had since Molitor and that's what I enjoy about him.

 

Yes, sadly I've seen all the teams and players in between too. It's cool, I get it you don't agree. I loved Molitor and Griffey growing up, own a Juan Nieves jersey, and think Gomez is a blast to watch, what can I say.

 

Back to the thread. Yes, good trade for the Brewers.

[Patrick425]

While I'm not super-geeked about this trade, I do think it was a decent trade. I guess if I put myself in the shoes of the Astros fans, I would probably be even less excited about the trade. Gomez's stats this year would cause me concern and temper my excitement over him and Fiers lack of "Pedigree" (wasn't a high draft pick, a bit of a late bloomer, soft-tosser, etc) would not excite me either. I'm a type of person who is all for what the Astros are doing in going all in by using their young trading chips to strike while the time is right. I completely get that and applaud that strategy. However, guys like Grienke and Sabathia in his prime are exciting acquisitions that you know will help you. A down year, less than 100% Gomez (who I personally believe that 2013 & 2014 will end up being the best years of his career, and possibly the only really productive years of his career, when all is said and done) and a back of the rotation starter are not that thrilling.

[topper09er]

The great Babe Ruth struck out more than 2,000 times in his career.

 

Babe Ruth only struck out 1330 times

[igor67]

There are too many things happening to worry about having too many good prospects at a position right now. We got a premium prospect without dealing a #1 starter or perennial All-star that's really hard to do even though teams have seemed a bit more free wheeling this time around. BPA is pretty much always the way to go when it comes to prospects, and I think we did that. We even dealt Fiers a year too early instead of a year too late, which is the first time I can remember the Brewers doing that.

[Nottso]

I'm just sad. Sad, sad, sad, sad, sad. I'm too old and cranky to get all twitched up about sabermetrics, moneyball, fantasy sports or any of that stuff. Gomez was just flat-out fun to watch playing baseball. I loved how much he clearly enjoyed playing the game. Much like Favre's earlier years, Carlos looked like a big, overgrown kid out there just having some fun. Baseball is supposed to be fun. Fun to play and fun to watch.

 

As someone else mentioned, we haven't seen passion like Carlos' since Prince left. And as has also been mentioned I hope the Astros and Cardinals go to the World Series, where Gomez hits a walk off home run in game 7, watches it for 11 seconds, flips his bat, un-tucks his shirt, throws up a "T" in honor of Nyjer Morgan, and yells into the Cardinals' dugout "Let Carpenter tell THAT to his kid!".

[Patrick425]

I guess I'm just too old and cranky to put up with all the base running mistakes and swinging out his shoes when all that is needed is a base hit. What some view as "having fun", I viewed as "Hey everyone...look at me!". Fielder had fun playing ball, but I also think he also was a good leader. I didn't get that feeling from Gomez. Again, I predict that Gomez will not come anywhere near the numbers he put up in 2013 and 2014 for the remainder of his career and will never play in another all-star game.

[3and2Fastball]

 

Take a look at the outfield picture in the wake of this trade. From my perspective, the Brewers have a logjam:

* Santana is in Colorado Springs (AAA)

* Phillips is joining Victor Roache, Tyrone Taylor, and Michael Reed in Biloxi (AA)

* Clint Coulter is in Brevard County (A+)

* Trent Clark ®, Demi Orimoloye ®, Monte Harrison (R+), Omar Cotto (A), Joangtel Segovia (R+), and Marcos Pinero (DSL) are at the lower rungs of the system.

 

Even if the Brewers trade Khris Davis in the offseason, there's two outfield spots to fill, three if you move Braun. The NL doesn't have the DH (it needs to get with the times), so that's going to get... interesting. The players at A and below are still a longer roll of the dice, so let's just look at the six players in AA or higher.

 

The good news is that Taylor (.649 OPS) is probably going to be a 4th/5th OF, so he's on the bench.

 

That means that between Coulter, Phillips, Reed, Santana, and Roache, I need to put two players with Braun in the outfield. So, which two of the rookies sit? Reed, the OBP/speed machine whose offensive skill set is strong where the Brewers have been the weakest? Phillips and/or Santana, the guys we gave up Carlos Gomez for? Roache, who's looking like a huge offensive threat? Or is it Coulter, who may be undervalued due to playing in the pitcher-friendly Florida State League, and whose home games are in Brevard County, which depresses offensive numbers even more?

 

The only way to get all six in the lineup is to put one of Phillips, Santana, and Roache at first base while the other two patrol the corner OF slots, have Coulter take over for Lucroy/Maldonado behind the plate, and to move Braun to you-know-where.

 

The other option is to trade one or two of those prospects at a later date to fill a hole the Brewer have... and some Brewers pitcher will have to face them. That's not terribly appealing to me, either.

.

 

 

You are making a good point here. But this is a good problem to have. Stockpiling talent is a good thing. The player's production or lackthereof can sort things out

 

Phillips is the potential star, he is a big upgrade over everyone listed. Santana is huge, can he play 1B? I like Clark & Coulter a lot of they are a few years away at least

 

Hopefully the Brewers can deal Braun at some point. By the time the Brewers are contenders again, Braun will be in a steep decline.

[Patrick425]

The other option is to trade one or two of those prospects at a later date to fill a hole the Brewer have... and some Brewers pitcher will have to face them. That's not terribly appealing to me, either.

 

 

I have heard a lot of arguments on this site from posters who really hate trading prospects, but this is a new one. Brewer pitchers will have to face a lot of good hitters because they are MLB pitchers and they have to face MLB hitters. I don't think that not wanting your pitcher to face one of your current prospects at some point is a very strong argument for not trading that prospect.

[craigharmann]

Stockpiling talent is a good thing.

 

 

That's the reason the Astros were able to make this trade. They have a ton of good players in their system. Out of that abundance, they can trade to go for it this year. Hopefully in 2-3 years, this is the Brewers.

[Baldkin]

Can Mark Kotsay come play CF for a couple months?

[LouisEly]

Stockpiling talent is a good thing.

 

 

That's the reason the Astros were able to make this trade. They have a ton of good players in their system. Out of that abundance, they can trade to go for it this year. Hopefully in 2-3 years, this is the Brewers.

Get as much young talent as you can. Then finish the organizational roster during the winter meetings. Every team is willing to trade for guys under the age of 25, but not every team is willing to trade for veterans. Many more teams, if not every team, will be in the trade market during the winter meetings so perhaps there is a team that will take one or two of our OF prospects in exchange for a pitching prospect (or catching, or 3B).

[Thundercat32]

This trade has actually made me happy with Melvin for the first time since I can remember, and I was bottoming out here about 2 hours ago. I would have preferred a package built around impact pitching but that ship sailed already and unless Lucroy goes I don't see how that's possible now... not to mention DM would want some kind of C back in the deal.

 

I was certain Melvin had blown the opportunity and I was wrong, kudos to him.

 

Wouldn't the Mets be the ideal trade partner for Lucroy? Who else needs a catcher that's a contender? Pirates, maybe... Diamondbacks... Angels... The choices are fairly limited, and I prefer the idea of landing say Wheeler & Conforto for Lucroy. I know that's a steep price for the Mets to pay, but teams that understand analytics, and the Mets are towards the top of that list, realize the extra value Lucroy's pitch framing offers. I mean, that Mets' rotation coupled with Lucroy's catching. Jesus! That doesn't even seem fair.

 

I'm with you, though. I really want to see a young, dominant, front of the line pitching prospect added. Otherwise, we're on another collision course for 2011. Stacked offense, but rip apart the farm to add a starter on a 1-2 year rental. No thanks.

[3and2Fastball]

Can Mark Kotsay come play CF for a couple months?

 

Considering that I'm holding out hope for the #1 overall draft pick (we currently have 5 more wins than the Phillies), that would be awesome!

[MrTPlush]

Lucroy makes over min. salary so he is probably not an option for the Mets.

 

In all seriousness I don't have much interest wasting my time with them.

[yfinn6]

Can Mark Kotsay come play CF for a couple months?

 

Some team that is actually playing to get to the World Series will pick him up and play him in CF in a pivotal game.

[jerichoholicninja]

Can Mark Kotsay come play CF for a couple months?

 

Some team that is actually playing to get to the World Series will pick him up and play him in CF in a pivotal game.

 

He's doing such as good job as the Padres hitting coach, I don't think teams will be willing to give up what it will take to get him.

[1992casey]

Brett Maverick Phillips. His parents must have been western fans.

[FidoMcCokefiend]

I hope the Astros and Cardinals go to the World Series, where Gomez hits a walk off home run in game 7, watches it for 11 seconds, flips his bat, un-tucks his shirt, throws up a "T" in honor of Nyjer Morgan, and yells into the Cardinals' dugout "Let Carpenter tell THAT to his kid!".

 

http://media0.giphy.com/media/68MP3aJkj9KzC/giphy.gif

[brewcrewdue80]

This trade has actually made me happy with Melvin for the first time since I can remember, and I was bottoming out here about 2 hours ago. I would have preferred a package built around impact pitching but that ship sailed already and unless Lucroy goes I don't see how that's possible now... not to mention DM would want some kind of C back in the deal.

 

I was certain Melvin had blown the opportunity and I was wrong, kudos to him.

 

Wouldn't the Mets be the ideal trade partner for Lucroy? Who else needs a catcher that's a contender? Pirates, maybe... Diamondbacks... Angels... The choices are fairly limited, and I prefer the idea of landing say Wheeler & Conforto for Lucroy. I know that's a steep price for the Mets to pay, but teams that understand analytics, and the Mets are towards the top of that list, realize the extra value Lucroy's pitch framing offers. I mean, that Mets' rotation coupled with Lucroy's catching. Jesus! That doesn't even seem fair.

 

I'm with you, though. I really want to see a young, dominant, front of the line pitching prospect added. Otherwise, we're on another collision course for 2011. Stacked offense, but rip apart the farm to add a starter on a 1-2 year rental. No thanks.

 

 

No the Mets have a logjam at Catcher having potentially the best bat for a Catcher in Travis D'Arnaud who can't stay healthy for any length of time to prove it, and this Plawecki kid playing his first season who's a top 75 prospect not living up to expectations on the ML thus far.

[trwi7]

Fiers pitched his first inning in relief tonight. Gave up 6 hits, 2 walks and 5 runs.

[yfinn6]

Fiers pitched his first inning in relief tonight. Gave up 6 hits, 2 walks and 5 runs.

 

Ouch.

[pacopete4]

Fiers pitched his first inning in relief tonight. Gave up 6 hits, 2 walks and 5 runs.

 

He's not going to get to start for them? Can't imagine that sits well for Fiers. I think he's earned to be a starter in this league.

[brewcrewdue80]

He was to start Tuesday. Mccullers got 1out today. Next RP got it through the 2nd. Fiers went 4ip in relief. Wasn't likely mentally prepared under the circumstances.