Gomez and Fiers to Houston for four prospects

[brewcrewdue80]

Wow - Keith Law on BBTN thinks the Brewers should have gotten more out of the deal than they did.

 

Thinks Phillips is above average, but the other guys...not so much.

 

I would agree. Where's the 5th prospect? I'm happy the team gets 2 top 100 types and maybe a 3rd who's lost sparkle. The 4th guy's a throwin. Gomez was worth 2 top 100s and Fiers worth 1 for sure, both then would be worth throw-ins in trade. I feel Gomez worth 3 prospects and Fiers worth 2. We got 4 not 5 prospects.

 

It's kinda like forgetting the QO prospect once again by Melvin. Quality type of players like AJ Reed or Derek Fisher or Joe Musgrove. Prospects picked just slightly lower than what they'll be when they give Gomez the QO. So we probably should have walked away with Joe Musgrove, but managed not to.

 

I'm not upset over the trade. Getting a legit OF in Phillips I'm thrilled with. Is Santana only an OF? or can he play at 1b? Solving that position for awhile? Phillips looks like a Legit star having 54XBH already on the season. You add his speed and arm according to these rankings and you're looking at a Phillips/Arcia pairing up the middle defensively, and it wouldn't just be defensive stalwarts to watch, but 2 players who should contribute with the bat. 7 years starting in 2016.

Hader is the ? to make the trade a true win for Milw or just a solid trade overall for the team. His accomplishments. Because Phillips will be special, Santana will mash HRs. If Hader turns in to a solid #3 like Fiers it's a win.

 

Thanks for the hard playing Gomez. Thanks for pitching strong enough Fiers to be wanted in a trade tossing 89MPH. Welcome to Milwaukee Phillips/Santana/Hader/Houser

[The stache]

This is one of, if not the best moves Doug Melvin has made since taking over the reigns as Brewer GM. I have been highly critical of him in the past, and I think that criticism was warranted. But he truly knocked it out of the park here. I can't help but tip my cap to him. When he makes a mistake, he should have his feet held to the fire. But when he does well, he should absolutely be applauded.

 

Brett Phillips coming to Milwaukee has me downright giddy. Why? Because this guy is a five tool star in the making. I think he has the athleticism to stick in center. He has a cannon for an arm, so wherever he goes, he's an asset to our defense. And he's lit it up at A/A+/AA. In 2014 at A/A+, .310 AVG combined with a slash of .375/.529/.905. 85 runs scored, 29 doubles, 14 triples, 17 home runs, 68 RBI and 23 stolen bases. This year at A+/AA, he's at .320 with a slash of .377/.548/.925, 90 runs scored, 27 doubles, 11 triples, 16 home runs, 71 RBI and 16 SB. I like that his K rate has stayed pretty consistent as he's moved from A to A+ to AA. And with Orlando Arcia, that means we have two of the premium spots on the field covered for the next decade plus. If we're in true rebuild mode, as it now seems, you can't possibly start out better than checking off short and center on your needs list.

 

Domingo Santana is very highly rated, as well. Phillips is the #2 ranked player in Houston's system (MLB.com), and Santana is #7. He's going to strike out quite a lot, but the power is legit. He has a 60 power tool, and a 60 arm tool. So while there will be a lot of swing-and-miss, he also draws a fair amount of walks, too. At AAA Fresno this season, he's hitting .320 with 16 homers and 59 RBI in 275 ABs. His slash line is .426/.582/1.008 is outstanding. 48 BBs vs 91 Ks. He's got a lifetime OBP of .371. Santana is a monster at 6'5" 225 Lbs. He can play either right of left.

 

The two pitchers I know less about. Hader was named the California League pitcher of the year in 2014. MLB.com lists his delivery draws comparisons to Chris Sale. He's got a strong fastball that sits in the low 90s, and he can reach back to hit 95/96 when needed. They note that his velocity has picked up since being drafted. His secondary pitches include a fringe average curve, and an average change up. He's 3-3 with a 3.17 ERA over 65.1 innings thus far in 2015. 69 Ks vs 24 walks. Hader is #14 in their top 20 at mid season.

 

Houser is not in the top 20.

 

I will miss Carlos and his unbridled joy playing the game. I'll miss Mike Fiers, too. But contrary to what Keith Law (who I have zero respect for) thinks, this is a great move for the Brewers. Phillips and Santana should rank #2 and #4 in our system when the Brewers depth chart is updated.

 

Our drafting the last two years has shown much improvement. And some smart trades have helped to rebuild our system. All of a sudden, I am feeling very positive about our future.

[BuckyBrewer61]

Phillips is obviously the headliner of the trade, but I feel like many are not giving Santana his due. I'm no minor league prospect expert, but he's hit at every level of the minors, this year posting a line of .320/.426/.582/1.008 at AAA. Wow. Yes he strikes out a lot, but he also clearly knows how to take a walk. Plus he's 22. This guy is no throw in, we got 2 studs out of this deal. If either of the pitchers becomes a major league contributor this could be an absolute haul.

[jerichoholicninja]

Will not miss Gomez's total lack of discipline in every phase of the game. Loved watching Fiers pitch and will miss him but love the trade.

[Patrick425]

Patrick, Astros system is better/deeper than the Brewers, so those rankings are significant. Four guys with true, legit potential

 

Based on end of year 2014 rankings. If their #2 prospect was not even ranked in the top #100 nationally after the 2014 season, then that would tell me that most of their better prospects are already at the major league level and/or have been traded away.

 

The mid season updated top 50 and top 100 prospect lists that others posted links to (thank you) makes me feel better about the deal. Don't get me wrong it wasn't like I was or am really down on this deal. I think its a decent deal. I really wanted to get rid of Gomez now, because I had serious doubts about his trade value improving and Fiers is a 30 year old late bloomer and this may have very well been a "sell high" situation with him. As another poster stated, I just don't think it's that much better of a deal than was in hand last night. Other than top level nationally ranked prospects (guys that are well known even among casual fans and who's MLB debuts are highly anticipated), I have a hard time getting overly excited about prospects. I completely agree that the Brewers need to make a youth movement, but I'm going to temper my expectations that they will be World Series bound in 2 to 4 years until I actually see these guys producing at the MLB level.

[folly412]

Wow - Keith Law on BBTN thinks the Brewers should have gotten more out of the deal than they did.

 

Thinks Phillips is above average, but the other guys...not so much.

 

Jerry Crasnick in the video on the ESPN homepage says the consensus from the scouts he spoke to said we made out very well.

 

The new hot chick at ESPN also made the video worth watching.

[FVBrewerFan]

Good lord, all Haudricourt wants to know is whether Gomez has been cleared medically. He still doesn't get that was the excuse the Mets used for panicking and being cheap.

[SRB]

As another poster stated, I just don't think it's that much better of a deal than was in hand last night.

 

It's a much better package coming to Milwaukee than Wheeler/Flores, in my opinion, but the inclusion of Fiers complicates things. Wish we could have gotten them to throw in another upside piece, but considering it seemed like we might not trade Gomez at all (and considering how average he has been this season, his value might be gone by the offseason), I'm quite happy.

 

It's a good trade, not a coup, but a good trade.

[FVBrewerFan]

Wow - Keith Law on BBTN thinks the Brewers should have gotten more out of the deal than they did.

 

Thinks Phillips is above average, but the other guys...not so much.

 

Keith Law doesnt like the Brewers prospects. There is a first

 

To be fair, Brewers could have gotten more. But that could have meant the deal falls apart. Sometimes perfect is the enemy of great. This is probably an 8, I wouldn't jeapirdize that holding out for a 10.

[rickh150]

Before trade.......

 

After..... Well, the opposite.

[danzig6767]

Wow - Keith Law on BBTN thinks the Brewers should have gotten more out of the deal than they did.

 

Thinks Phillips is above average, but the other guys...not so much.

I would agree. Where's the 5th prospect? I'm happy the team gets 2 top 100 types and maybe a 3rd who's lost sparkle. The 4th guy's a throwin. Gomez was worth 2 top 100s and Fiers worth 1 for sure, both then would be worth throw-ins in trade. I feel Gomez worth 3 prospects and Fiers worth 2. We got 4 not 5 prospects.

 

It's kinda like forgetting the QO prospect once again by Melvin. Quality type of players like AJ Reed or Derek Fisher or Joe Musgrove. Prospects picked just slightly lower than what they'll be when they give Gomez the QO. So we probably should have walked away with Joe Musgrove, but managed not to.

The trade deadline was closing fast. Maybe had Melvin demanded more, the Astros could have walked away and who knows if there would have been another serious suitor for Gomez.

 

This is the very tough and very scary balancing act which every seller GM finds themselves in as the deadline closes in. They on one hand want to get maximum value for the player/players they are shopping, but if there are only a limited number of teams interested in your player, you can potentially end up scaring away the most interested buyer with your demands and as a result, get stuck not being able to trade that player and/or get less in return from another team. This likely happens a lot where a seller simply tried getting to much and instead got nothing.

 

We can't ignore either that Gomez is having a down year compared to last season, which had to negate his value to at least some degree. In the end, this return to me sure beats the chance that the Brewers may have gotten stuck with no trade for Gomez after that debacle with the Mets.

[torts]

Good lord, all Haudricourt wants to know is whether Gomez has been cleared medically. He still doesn't get that was the excuse the Mets used for panicking and being cheap.

 

He gets it, hes doing it on purpose

[MNBrew]

If you read Haudricourt's blog post on the Gomez fiasco, you know he's being facetious because he's the one that put the puzzle pieces together that the issue that caused the Mets' cold feet on the trade was far more likely MONEY than any medical/injury concern for Gomez (which obviously wasn't legit).

[dlk9s]

Good lord, all Haudricourt wants to know is whether Gomez has been cleared medically. He still doesn't get that was the excuse the Mets used for panicking and being cheap.

Of course he gets it. He wrote an article about it.

[3and2Fastball]

Love this trade. Love it, love it, love it.

[MrTPlush]

I wish they would have gotten more, but clearly the market just wasn't there. Gomez just wasn't drawing massive interest and Mike Fiers probably wasn't lighting people on fire because he is 30 years old. I truly believe this was a good deal the way the market was.

[StearnsFTW]

Are people actually ragging Keith Law for not liking Brewers prospects?

 

I'd say he's been vindicated since Brewers prospects have generally sucked for 3 decades

[Brew City Baseball Fan]

Gomez was really emotional. Really going to miss him.

 

Yep....he loved being a Brewer.....hope we get a chance to see him again at Miller Park

 

For sure. My favorite player since Molitor. Worth the price of admission to the park. There's not many players I'd say that about. A real nice deal for the Brewers though. Hope to see Gomez playing in the post-season.

 

No one, ever, ever should put Carlos Gomez's name in the same sentence as Molitor unless it includes go go carrying a jock strap. Please tell me that you stopped watching the brewers when Molitor left and picked back up in Gomez's all star year. People need to get into a Packer mind set. Guys like Gomez, Lucroy, Segura etc are nice 3rd or 4th options on a Pennant winning team. Carlos will be great with HOU because he will be a cog. Enough of the Barry Alvarez, happy as f, to go to the Rose Bowl mentality. You need true stars, different than borderline all stars that can play the game the right way for a small market to win a chip. The Bucks got that right in their direction. Gomez was never going to be the best player on a team that wins it all and we would have had to pay him as such

[torts]

He wasnt saying gomez was as good as paul, he was saying he was his favorite player since. Chill, bro.

[jjfanec]

Are people actually ragging Keith Law for not liking Brewers prospects?

 

I'd say he's been vindicated since Brewers prospects have generally sucked for 3 decades

 

All star level players this season who were brewers prospects - Cain, Fielder, Braun, Brantley, Gallardo, Escobar, Lucroy and others like Odorizzi, Lawrie, Hardy who are every day players or starting pitchers. I am probably missing a few. A farm system is not good right now but it has not been bad in terms of producing talent. Just short on starting pitching

 

An IF of Lucroy, Fielder, Lawrie, Escobar, and Hardy with an OF of Braun, Cain and Brantley is pretty impressive. Gallardo, Odorizzi, Fiers, Estrada (not sure he counts) and Peralta with Jungmann and Nelson isn't impressive but is serviceable.

[The stache]

 

No one, ever, ever should put Carlos Gomez's name in the same sentence as Molitor unless it includes go go carrying a jock strap. Please tell me that you stopped watching the brewers when Molitor left and picked back up in Gomez's all star year. People need to get into a Packer mind set. Guys like Gomez, Lucroy, Segura etc are nice 3rd or 4th options on a Pennant winning team. Carlos will be great with HOU because he will be a cog. Enough of the Barry Alvarez, happy as f, to go to the Rose Bowl mentality. You need true stars, different than borderline all stars that can play the game the right way for a small market to win a chip. The Bucks got that right in their direction. Gomez was never going to be the best player on a team that wins it all and we would have had to pay him as such

 

Um, the only player in all of baseball with a higher WAR in 2013 than Carlos Gomez was Mike Trout. Gold Glove winner, 27 doubles, 10 triples, 23 home runs, 40 stolen bases. He had the highest power-speed metric in all of baseball in both 2013 and 2014. He was more than a 3rd or 4th options, sorry. And while Lucroy has had a down year, he 4th in the NL MVP Award last year, with a 6.7 WAR to boot. Between 2012 and 2014, his 162 game averages (as a catcher): .297 AVG, 73 runs scored, 39 doubles, 5 triples, 18 home runs, 86 RBI, a slash line of .359/.472/.831. He just turned 29, and should rebound considerably.

 

Calling Gomez and Lucroy "a nice 3rd or 4th option" is absurd.

[1992casey]

"Favorite" is subjective, and "since Molitor" indicates a preference for Paul. I don't think there's anything to dispute.

[StearnsFTW]

Are people actually ragging Keith Law for not liking Brewers prospects?

 

I'd say he's been vindicated since Brewers prospects have generally sucked for 3 decades

 

All star level players this season who were brewers prospects - Cain, Fielder, Braun, Brantley, Gallardo, Escobar, Lucroy and others like Odorizzi, Lawrie, Hardy who are every day players or starting pitchers. I am probably missing a few. A farm system is not good right now but it has not been bad in terms of producing talent. Just short on starting pitching

 

An IF of Lucroy, Fielder, Lawrie, Escobar, and Hardy with an OF of Braun, Cain and Brantley is pretty impressive. Gallardo, Odorizzi, Fiers, Estrada (not sure he counts) and Peralta with Jungmann and Nelson isn't impressive but is serviceable.

 

The system has been bad forever. It deserves ridicule.

[gregmag]

This has never happened before. I can never remember a deadline where we actually traded so many useful trade chips. I can never remember a trade where we got back all guys who were 21-22 with (is this right?) 5-6 years of team control. Some guys with warts, but all with upside. Two bats and two arms. Spread of minor league levels.

 

This is like the perfect trade (except I'm irrationally sad to lose Fiers).

 

I was okay with the Mets deal. After it fell apart I thought DM and/or Alderson had really screwed us. I can't believe this happened.

 

Merry bad baseball Christmas, everyone!

[Brew City Baseball Fan]

 

No one, ever, ever should put Carlos Gomez's name in the same sentence as Molitor unless it includes go go carrying a jock strap. Please tell me that you stopped watching the brewers when Molitor left and picked back up in Gomez's all star year. People need to get into a Packer mind set. Guys like Gomez, Lucroy, Segura etc are nice 3rd or 4th options on a Pennant winning team. Carlos will be great with HOU because he will be a cog. Enough of the Barry Alvarez, happy as f, to go to the Rose Bowl mentality. You need true stars, different than borderline all stars that can play the game the right way for a small market to win a chip. The Bucks got that right in their direction. Gomez was never going to be the best player on a team that wins it all and we would have had to pay him as such

 

Um, the only player in all of baseball with a higher WAR in 2013 than Carlos Gomez was Mike Trout. Gold Glove winner, 27 doubles, 10 triples, 23 home runs, 40 stolen bases. He had the highest power-speed metric in all of baseball in both 2013 and 2014. He was more than a 3rd or 4th options, sorry. And while Lucroy has had a down year, he 4th in the NL MVP Award last year, with a 6.7 WAR to boot. Between 2012 and 2014, his 162 game averages (as a catcher): .297 AVG, 73 runs scored, 39 doubles, 5 triples, 18 home runs, 86 RBI, a slash line of .359/.472/.831. He just turned 29, and should rebound considerably.

 

Calling Gomez and Lucroy "a nice 3rd or 4th option" is absurd.

Call me old school or absurd but listen to Edwin Star for my thoughts n WAR. As a big baseball fan I can say Carlos covered more ground in the outfield than any CF Milwaukee has ever seen. I loved that and shutter to think of what we will deal with post Cameron/GoGo. But the rest of his game I am glad to see go. The base running mistakes, the swing for the fences at all times mentality. The cardinals win because they play good baseball, they don't have a guy playing the baseball equivalent of YMCA ball in MLB. I hate them because I wish we were them. We've played horse ish baseball because our managers have been "players" coaches. We had to give up an all world player and a serviceable MLB starter to get the 35th and 85th prospect? Tells you exactly how good Gomez is