Gomez not traded/Flores cries/Alderson angry/Haudricourt confused/Melvin nonplussed/Gomez=Not Injured/Scott Boras MAD/Mets are lying liars

[BrewCrew8682]

This thread might be WOAH SOLVDD worthy.

 

Gomez not traded/Flores cries/Alderson angry/Haudricourt confused/Melvin nonplussed/Gomez=Not Injured/Scott Boras MAD/Mets are lying liars/FARM SISTEM WOAH SOLVDD!!1!

 

I didn't think the thread title could possibly be improved upon. I very happily stand corrected. This thread will be a joy to revisit as time goes on and we can (hopefully) look back on what might have been and how we dodged a bullet.

[HiAndTight]

Journalism today is hardly reporting. Just look at who ESPN hires. Most of the people focus on fantasy sports or played the sport professionally. They are made to be opinions, not reporters. That's what ESPN's been about more recently. It hasn't been reporting. It's been speculation and pipeline dream scenarios made to keep you coming back for more. That's what is always on their site, their shows, their magazines.

 

 

Of course they're going to have an abundance of those types, however ESPN also has some very highly respected and very well connected actual reporters. Guys like Olney and Shoenfield, Kurkjian, Olney.

 

There is a difference between the Eduardo Perez' of the world who just speculate and don't pretend to frame it as anything more than speculation(or Schilling or whomever) and the actual lifetime baseball writers who know what they're talking about.

 

ESPN has to fill about 14 channels 24 hours a day. So there's going to be a lot of fluff. However they get things write the vast majority of the time(even guys like Bowen when they say they have talked to GM's, they're usually reliable, it's just his absurd fantasy trades that he makes up that cause him to lose credibility).

 

But when ESPN reports something as fact....they're right. But ESPN is the giant, so...of course they're the popular punching bag.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Cheese Sandwiches for everyone

[LouisEly]

Gomez to the Mets

Top pitching prospect WOAH SOLVDD

Sandy full of crap

[1992casey]

This thread might be WOAH SOLVDD worthy.

Done.

 

Feel free to continue discussion if you'd like.

[yfinn6]

Mike Fiers threw a no hitter tonight. Ha.

 

Good for you, Mike.

[homer]

Flores since the infamous trade that wasn't:

 

.310/.343/.570

[homer]

Happy One Year Anniversary!

 

[adambr2]

It is awesome the way this worked out. Can you imagine losing out on Hader, Santana, and Phillips (Not to even mention whatever happens with Houser this year), for Wheeler and Flores, who are next to worthless?

[homer]

Wheeler has had a pretty good year.

 

3.23 ERA 175 K 52BB in 175.1 IP

[TURBO]

Wheeler had an excellent 2nd half, and would easily, not even close, be our best starter...

 

We'll see if he can match those numbers for a full season in 2019.

[homer]

Oral history of the trade that was and then wasn't:

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/featured/wilmer-flores-changed-baseball-history-by-crying

 

Moving this thread temporarily back to the MLB forum so people can relive the drama.

[CheezWizHed]

I'd imagine the Houston side of that trade goes down in the annuls of time as their worst trade ever. They basically got a no-hitter and a scandal out of it while giving up 3 MLB players.

 

And I remember with Brett Phillips was thought to be the center point of the trade. Interesting that he was the third part of the trade.

[MrTPlush]

That was probably their worst trade ever even before the scandal. Carlos Gomez was worthless and Fiers was also quite terrible. Collectively I think they had a 0.3 WAR together. Brett Phillips had 4x that for us directly on the MLB field himself.

[brewcrewdue80]

That was probably their worst trade ever even before the scandal. Carlos Gomez was worthless and Fiers was also quite terrible. Collectively I think they had a 0.3 WAR together. Brett Phillips had 4x that for us directly on the MLB field himself.

 

If Fiers was quite terrible up to that point, then Woodruff/Houser are more so quite terrible. Fiers had a 3.66ERA and 3.61Fip for Milw in 341IP. A 2.8 BB/9 and 9.2 K/9

 

He's only pitched "terrible" for the Astros. During that stretch after trade Fiers did better for Houston than he was doing for Milw that season. That's a winning trade in respect to a season push in the playoffs. He's pitched to a 6.9BWar the last 2 seasons.

 

Gomez was the worst trade for them. Fiers stated what the problem was in regards to the jerking around Gomez in starting lineups. Gomez netted Milw Hader and Santana. Fiers Phillips and Houser. Huge win on the Fiers part of that trade for Houston.

[MrTPlush]

He only pitched terrible for the Astros...I think that is what kinda mattered to the Astros. I don’t think they care about how he was with the Brewers or the A’s. Not sure that was really that much of a win for the Astros. He pitched well down the stretch in 2015, but that was about it.

[jimmyjeromehardy7]

My then 4 year old loved Carlos Gomez. (As a side note - a year before he thought he would find Gomez in each of the winter Olympic events.) Imagine telling him Gomez was traded putting him to bed, then saying never mind, it didn't happen in the morning, only to tell him the next night it did indeed happen. Poor kid was so confused. Ironic part is now Josh Hader is his favorite Brewer.

[CheezWizHed]

I think MrTP (can we shorten your handle to that? ) meant that Fiers was terrible for Houston, as he was responding to my previous comment with Houston being the context.

 

And per the article, DM wanted Hader, Santana and Phillips for Gonzalez. Fiers and Houser were added to even it out. It was never 2for1 for either player. But my original assertion was that getting neither Gonzalez nor Fiers was a positive for Houston given the "legacy" both players left.

 

Gonzalez was never "right" again, so I doubt Houston's handling of him had any bearing on the situation. It is very interesting how bad Fiers did with Houston and how well he pitched after, however.

[AKCheesehead]

He only pitched terrible for the Astros...I think that is what kinda mattered to the Astros. I don’t think they care about how he was with the Brewers or the A’s. Not sure that was really that much of a win for the Astros. He pitched well down the stretch in 2015, but that was about it.

 

Agreed. Plus, stros went 4-6 in games Fiers started for them in 2015. He pitched decent, sure. Houston went on to win the WC that year and then lose to KC. Fiers wasn't very valuable to them in 16-17 at all. Meanwhile, Phillips had some big moments and then helped net us Moustakas in 2018, and still have Houser. I think the trade was a good idea for houston, but I don't think it takes a homer to say Milwaukee easily won that trade.

[JackNicholson1974]

That was probably their worst trade ever even before the scandal. Carlos Gomez was worthless and Fiers was also quite terrible. Collectively I think they had a 0.3 WAR together. Brett Phillips had 4x that for us directly on the MLB field himself.

 

If Fiers was quite terrible up to that point, then Woodruff/Houser are more so quite terrible. Fiers had a 3.66ERA and 3.61Fip for Milw in 341IP. A 2.8 BB/9 and 9.2 K/9

 

He's only pitched "terrible" for the Astros. During that stretch after trade Fiers did better for Houston than he was doing for Milw that season. That's a winning trade in respect to a season push in the playoffs. He's pitched to a 6.9BWar the last 2 seasons.

 

Gomez was the worst trade for them. Fiers stated what the problem was in regards to the jerking around Gomez in starting lineups. Gomez netted Milw Hader and Santana. Fiers Phillips and Houser. Huge win on the Fiers part of that trade for Houston.

 

I’ve never seen a report where it was broken down in to two trades like that. That’s interesting, I never knew it was actually two separate trades.

 

Of course one could say it was Gomez for Santana and Phillips and the other side Fiers for Hader and Houser. Wonder if that’s a huge win for Houston on the Fiers side of things still. Or maybe it’s a huge win for Houston on both sides? Thoughts?

[LouisEly]

Huge win on the Fiers part of that trade for Houston.

Fiers had a 0.5 bWAR/2.3 fWAR for the Astros. Houser had a 1.9 bWAR/1.6 fWAR for the Brewers last year and is under control through 2024. Houston has not won that part of the trade by any stretch.

[brewcrewdue80]

That was probably their worst trade ever even before the scandal. Carlos Gomez was worthless and Fiers was also quite terrible. Collectively I think they had a 0.3 WAR together. Brett Phillips had 4x that for us directly on the MLB field himself.

 

If Fiers was quite terrible up to that point, then Woodruff/Houser are more so quite terrible. Fiers had a 3.66ERA and 3.61Fip for Milw in 341IP. A 2.8 BB/9 and 9.2 K/9

 

He's only pitched "terrible" for the Astros. During that stretch after trade Fiers did better for Houston than he was doing for Milw that season. That's a winning trade in respect to a season push in the playoffs. He's pitched to a 6.9BWar the last 2 seasons.

 

Gomez was the worst trade for them. Fiers stated what the problem was in regards to the jerking around Gomez in starting lineups. Gomez netted Milw Hader and Santana. Fiers Phillips and Houser. Huge win on the Fiers part of that trade for Houston.

 

I’ve never seen a report where it was broken down in to two trades like that. That’s interesting, I never knew it was actually two separate trades.

 

Of course one could say it was Gomez for Santana and Phillips and the other side Fiers for Hader and Houser. Wonder if that’s a huge win for Houston on the Fiers side of things still. Or maybe it’s a huge win for Houston on both sides? Thoughts?

 

When you read the whole transcript it talks about Gomez with Hader and Santana and Melvin wanted Phillips. That they remeber Houston asking about Fiers previously. So Melvin then made Fiers available with Gomez and thinking the trade was too much from Milw asked it to be 4-2. Houser wound up the 4th.

[brewcrewdue80]

He only pitched terrible for the Astros...I think that is what kinda mattered to the Astros. I don’t think they care about how he was with the Brewers or the A’s. Not sure that was really that much of a win for the Astros. He pitched well down the stretch in 2015, but that was about it.

 

Agreed. Plus, stros went 4-6 in games Fiers started for them in 2015. He pitched decent, sure. Houston went on to win the WC that year and then lose to KC. Fiers wasn't very valuable to them in 16-17 at all. Meanwhile, Phillips had some big moments and then helped net us Moustakas in 2018, and still have Houser. I think the trade was a good idea for houston, but I don't think it takes a homer to say Milwaukee easily won that trade.

 

Huge win on the Fiers part of that trade for Houston.

Fiers had a 0.5 bWAR/2.3 fWAR for the Astros. Houser had a 1.9 bWAR/1.6 fWAR for the Brewers last year and is under control through 2024. Houston has not won that part of the trade by any stretch.

 

He made 9starts and one 5IP relief coming in the 3rd inning, Hou down 6-2. 10appearances over 60IP. The context for the trade is he made a great contribution during their playoff run. He was better than the pitchers Houston had been using.

Houser didnt pitch meaningful innings until 2018. Thats 0 value to Houston 2015-2017 when Fiers pitched for them. Houser has a career 4.21ERA in the minors and it was higher before the trade.

That's essentially giving Phillips through 2022 to say the Moustakas trade was a win or lose. Regardless how Moose helped the team in 2018. 0.7BWAR(Fiers 0.8BWAR Hou stretch)

[MrTPlush]

Yah, but you are ignoring the fact they could have certainly got someone else for those players. Both of which were decent prospects and Phillips obviously was pretty highly rated at the time.

 

I bet if one asked and they were honest no way they say they would go back and still trade Phillips/Houser for Fiers. From a purely baseball performance standpoint and ignoring his whistleblowing ways of course. We will never know what they could have possibly gotten instead for those guys, but I don't know anyone in Houston would say they won that portion of the trade

[brewcrewdue80]

Yah, but you are ignoring the fact they could have certainly got someone else for those players. Both of which were decent prospects and Phillips obviously was pretty highly rated at the time.

 

I bet if one asked and they were honest no way they say they would go back and still trade Phillips/Houser for Fiers. From a purely baseball performance standpoint and ignoring his whistleblowing ways of course. We will never know what they could have possibly gotten instead for those guys, but I don't know anyone in Houston would say they won that portion of the trade

 

Id probably bet more Houston fans would ask who? Having no clue who Phillips and Houser are.