Open for business (part 3)

[clancyphile]

I highly doubt that any potential return for Gomez this off-season would include a pitcher as talented as Hoffman. That's just wishful thinking...

 

So far Hoffman, Toussaint, and Sean Manaea who was the best value in the 2013 draft have been traded. There just aren't many pitching prospects with impact potential on teams that would be willing to trade them.

 

Young impact pitching is a finite market each year and if you snooze you lose. I sincerely hope I'm wrong but realistically how many more young pitchers are possibly going to change hands?

 

So, why not get young impact bats instead?

[tmwiese55]

I highly doubt that any potential return for Gomez this off-season would include a pitcher as talented as Hoffman. That's just wishful thinking...

 

So far Hoffman, Toussaint, and Sean Manaea who was the best value in the 2013 draft have been traded. There just aren't many pitching prospects with impact potential on teams that would be willing to trade them.

 

Young impact pitching is a finite market each year and if you snooze you lose. I sincerely hope I'm wrong but realistically how many more young pitchers are possibly going to change hands?

 

So, why not get young impact bats instead?

 

[sarcasm]Agreed, veteran starting pitchers on short term 3/30 type deals can easily be had to fill the gap if we need pitching.[/sarcasm]

 

Yea I agree though, doesn't have to be pitching. They can use help pretty much everywhere in the system.

[3and2Fastball]

Young impact pitching is a finite market each year and if you snooze you lose. I sincerely hope I'm wrong but realistically how many more young pitchers are possibly going to change hands?

 

Exactly. The window is only open so long and then it closes. Back to trying to find pitching in the draft or developing who we already have in the system. A team needs to jump at acquiring young pitching whenever possible.

[paul253]

Do people just assume we can get more for Gomez in the offseason because that's what Melvin says? Gomez should have bee traded last offseason. Now here we are hanging onto him again hoping some team blows us away with an unrealistic offer. Just like he is going to expect an unreasonable offer in the offseason that won't come. Melvins refusal to trade players who aren't impending free agents has killed this franchise. I'm telling you. This game has passed him by. He's been here over a decade and has yet to develop ONE ace. Not one. And maybe one or two pitchers who could be considered a #2. He can't draft them and he refuses to trade the guys who could fetch one. Our pitching has been atrocious his entire tenure, save the two years he traded for CY Young caliber pitchers. And every year the Brewers are out of it people like me get all excited that maybe this is finally the year we obtain those young high ceiling prospects only to see players like nick delmonico as our trade deadline haul. I'm sorry for the rant but I have zero faith in Melvin doing anything significant this deadline. And I'll tell you what he is darn lucky parra is playing as well as he is because parra MIGHT get him a player worth talking about.

[MrTPlush]

I don't know why you guys are just assuming we had a shot at these pitchers. One was traded for the biggest SS name in MLB, one was traded for a super utility player, and another was acquired in an odd salary dump deal. The first two we don't have and the last one probably isn't even worth the price tag they paid.

 

Do these pitching rich teams even want our players? Do they value them that highly and WANT to give up those pitchers? It's like everyone saw us connected to the Blue Jays and are now assuming we passed up on Hoffman. I don't get it.

[TheCrew07]

So, why not get young impact bats instead?

 

Because bats don't fix the fundamental flaw with this organization which has been pitching. I don't have a problem acquiring impact bats, but we literally have 4 intriguing CFs, 3 corner OFs, and 5 SS already.

 

We need corner IF and C, so look around at the top prospects in each organization, see if their needs match up, and if they'd actually be willing to trade.

 

There were literally 2 3B on the midseason top 50 from BA:

 

TX - 3B- Joey Gallo isn't going anywhere.

BOS - 3B - Rafael Devers possibly not a MLB 3B.

 

There is an incredible shortage of decent 1B all around baseball and none in the top 50.

 

Schwarber was the only C in the top 50, there's no way the Brewers are acquiring him.

 

So then what are we going to trade for? More OF? We'll trade from position of strength to acquire more of that position? My idea of trading is to address positions of weakness long term.

 

More importantly my biggest fear is that the previous cycle repeats itself, we end up with "expendable" bats and trade them for short term MLB pitching so the holes never actually get plugged... a couple of seasons in the sun with mediocrity around them.

 

 

As to Melvin doing great in trades... that's hardly been the case. I think Sabathia, Greinke, and Marcum cloud that perception. He's also never added significant young pieces to the roster via trade so I would submit he's not even the right person to be captaining this sort of a ship. Nothing about trading for prospects plays to his strengths, not in TX and not here in Milwaukee, those are the not the kinds of trades he makes.

[trwi7]

Just getting the feeling that this is going to be the most depressing trade deadline ever. Not even sure the Brewers are going to trade Parra at this point.

[paul253]

Can anyone name one good pitching prospect Melvin traded for?

[MrTPlush]

Can anyone name one good pitching prospect Melvin traded for?

 

Can you name one time he even had an opportunity? He is just Attanasio's puppet.

[pacopete4]

Can anyone name one good pitching prospect Melvin traded for?

 

And yet 4/6th of our starting rotation is homegrown, cheap, and controllable for the foreseeable future. Not too shabby. Maybe there's not a true ace in the bunch but there are not that many teams with those types of pitchers.

[narwhalattack]

I'm starting to think the Brewers never intended to trade to begin with. They put up ridiculous asking prices and of course when no one bites, they get to keep their players and say, "well, at least we tried."

[Lee16]

Just getting the feeling that this is going to be the most depressing trade deadline ever. Not even sure the Brewers are going to trade Parra at this point.

 

Agreed, I really, REALLY hope we are wrong, but I just get this feeling that this trade deadline is just whipping right by Doug Melvin. So many teams are filling needs before the deadline, and the only time the Brewers are mentioned is "other teams have checked in about...", but we don't seem to be close to doing anything. I'm getting worried that all the contenders will be done shopping, and Melvin will be sitting in his office on Friday like:

 

http://img.pandawhale.com/post-64231-this-is-fine-dog-fire-comic-Im-N7mp.png

[TheCrew07]

Can anyone name one good pitching prospect Melvin traded for?

 

I do find Diplan intriguing but he's down in R ball so who knows what we have there. A couple of others could be decent relievers, but starting pitching is awful thin.

[MrTPlush]

There are still 3 days left guys. Now is the time where teams know if they can't get players. The Angels getting 3 OFers isn't a bad sign for Parra, it means we are moving closer to his landing spot. The Angels were outbid and the list is that much smaller. Outside of him we have bulllpens arms who aren't a huge concern. Lots of teams will be going after them on the 31st. You have Lind who now has the injury concerns, but execs think he will be traded so that is a good sign. Carlos Gomez is a total crap shoot...either you get the right deal or not. Deals can come together very fast for him. Then the Blue Jays still haven't gotten a starter so Fiers to them is still entirely possible. There are more holes than there are players to be traded.

 

3 days is a very very long time and it happens to be the busiest 3 days there is. If we are sitting here on Friday at noon and still twiddling our thumbs then we should probably be concerned.

 

^That picture is halarious though.

[paul253]

Yes 4/6 of our rotation is home grown. And it's actually a decent bunch. But my point was that in his entire career he has been completely unable to develop an ace or obtain a young one. And other than Gallardo i don't see a #2 in there either. There's still hope for Nelson and peralta but as of now they aren't there. The guys he's obtained in trades in hopes of being that type of pitcher have been huge disappointments (cappellan Jackson de la rosa hellweg Pena etc).

 

I just think Melvin gets way too much credit for his trades. He's had some good ones but he's had some bad ones too. And in over a decade he hasn't obtained one legitimate #1 or #2 other than already established pitchers. He's consistently missed opportunities to trade players at their peaks and consistently signed FAs who are on the decline. He needs to go.

[MrTPlush]

You can do whatever you want with Doug Melvin, but the real problem is Attanasio. He feels the need compete every year and that is why we hold on to players too long, sign aging pitchers, and in the past a weak farm system. That is all to blame on Attanasio. Hard to find an ace when drafting mid 1st round every year.

[dlk9s]

I'm starting to think the Brewers never intended to trade to begin with. They put up ridiculous asking prices and of course when no one bites, they get to keep their players and say, "well, at least we tried."

http://i.imgur.com/hP9Ri.gif

[clancyphile]

So, why not get young impact bats instead?

 

Because bats don't fix the fundamental flaw with this organization which has been pitching. I don't have a problem acquiring impact bats, but we literally have 4 intriguing CFs, 3 corner OFs, and 5 SS already.

 

We need corner IF and C, so look around at the top prospects in each organization, see if their needs match up, and if they'd actually be willing to trade.

 

There were literally 2 3B on the midseason top 50 from BA:

 

TX - 3B- Joey Gallo isn't going anywhere.

BOS - 3B - Rafael Devers possibly not a MLB 3B.

 

There is an incredible shortage of decent 1B all around baseball and none in the top 50.

 

Schwarber was the only C in the top 50, there's no way the Brewers are acquiring him.

 

So then what are we going to trade for? More OF? We'll trade from position of strength to acquire more of that position? My idea of trading is to address positions of weakness long term.

 

More importantly my biggest fear is that the previous cycle repeats itself, we end up with "expendable" bats and trade them for short term MLB pitching so the holes never actually get plugged... a couple of seasons in the sun with mediocrity around them.

 

 

As to Melvin doing great in trades... that's hardly been the case. I think Sabathia, Greinke, and Marcum cloud that perception. He's also never added significant young pieces to the roster via trade so I would submit he's not even the right person to be captaining this sort of a ship. Nothing about trading for prospects plays to his strengths, not in TX and not here in Milwaukee, those are the not the kinds of trades he makes.

 

What is wrong with putting an impact bat that plays SS at 2B? Why not stick another impact bat at SS at 3B? The Brewers made that first move with someone named Molitor, and later on, did the same with Gary Sheffield.

 

I cannot begin to describe how frustrated I was that they didn't move Sveum to second and start Sheffield at short in `88.

[brewmann04]

Well we have Drafted in the mid pack but not getting a a thru #1 still lies with the scouts.

[LouisEly]

There were thirteen - yes, 13 - teams present with scouts last Thursday at the game in Arizona. If you aren't going to be trading anybody, there won't be 13 teams present with scouts at games. Brian and Bill have said on numerous occasions that scouts have been asking them about players. That doesn't happen if you aren't going to be trading players.

[nate82]

I have stated this before and I am going to state it again. Gomez is probably not going to be traded before the deadline. I will be shocked if he does get traded. Gomez is more than likely going to be traded this off season. Though with the Rangers and the Indians looking in on Gomez it is a possibility they trade for him now instead of during the off season when there will be more competition for Gomez.

 

I just do not see a suitor for Gomez now and there may not be one this off season though the Rangers and the Indians are intriguing. I don't see the Brewers getting an impact pitcher for Gomez and will more than likely get an impact bat for him. The Mariners are another team that I could see trading for Gomez now or in the off season. If the Orioles decide to make Gausman available this is the team that will get Gomez at the deadline.

 

From what I have heard is that the Brewers want Gausman and the Orioles are deciding if they want to trade him or not. If Gausman becomes available look for a trade to happen fairly quickly between Milwaukee and Baltimore.

 

Parra should be gone after this series with the Giants and I have heard that the Giants are the #2 team behind the Mets. Do not expect a big return for Parra the Brewers may get a teams #10-15 ranked prospect. While Parra's recent surge has been nice teams are not overly impressed with him and are not willing to give up a big prospect for him. The Brewers are waiting on the Giants to see if they are going to be buyers.

 

Right now Lind could be traded the biggest hiccup has been his lower back pain he has been experiencing since around the all star break. The Cardinals are waiting to see if the back issues will persist or if they will go away. If Lind will be traded it will be at the deadline or possibly after the deadline (highly unlikely Lind makes it to the Cardinals on the trade waivers).

 

I have heard nothing on Krod and Broxton while Cotts has garnered some interest. From my source I have talked to the Astros and the Cubs have had varying interest in Cotts.

 

This is just what I have heard.

[3and2Fastball]

Just getting the feeling that this is going to be the most depressing trade deadline ever. Not even sure the Brewers are going to trade Parra at this point.

 

I've somewhat resigned myself to that reality. Now if they do pull off some good trades I'll be pleasantly surprised.

[superfly]

The Twins bullpen is nothing short of a dumpster fire. They need Will Smith and maybe even KRod.

[bill hAll Star]

The Twins bullpen is nothing short of a dumpster fire. They need Will Smith and maybe even KRod.

 

So is 1B, SS, C, some of their rotation, and CF to an extent. I know that team's arrow is pointing up, but I'm not sure they should be trading guys in their system, because I feel like they're just not that good. However, they've been healthy and "pretty good" overall at pitching...and until recently, no one was pushing them.

 

Anyways, I agree with you that they're going to want to and likely trade for RP, just as a person with Twins as my #2 team, I really hope they don't trade what future guys they have for much at this deadline.

[danzig6767]

You can do whatever you want with Doug Melvin, but the real problem is Attanasio. He feels the need compete every year and that is why we hold on to players too long, sign aging pitchers, and in the past a weak farm system. That is all to blame on Attanasio. Hard to find an ace when drafting mid 1st round every year.

This is why like everyone else , i'd like to see some trades before the deadline, but i'm much more focused on what happens after the season at GM.

 

We've read that Attanasio is supposedly going to hire a new GM after the season. Two factors related to that will have vastly more impact on the franchise going forward vs who we trade or don't trade at the deadline.

 

1. Who does Attanasio pick to replace Melvin.

 

2. How much power exactly does Attanasio give that GM to shape the team in the manner he sees fit from year to year and on that front, will Mark only hire a GM that shares Attanasio's vision each year?

 

On point two, even if worst case only say Parra and Cotts were traded before the 31st, a new GM in the offseason wold still have plenty of options to shape the direction of the team. All of Gomez, Lind, Lucroy, Segura, etc would still be under team friendly contract terms, available to be shopped by that new GM if allowed to be Attanasio. Clearly, Gomez and Lind would lose that half of a season of value given they only have one year left on their contracts. A team trading for Gomez in the offseason though would still be in line to get a comp pick if he wasn't re-signed, increasing his value if traded then.

 

So as much as i'd like to see a really active trade deadline for the Brewers, the biggest franchise changing decision/decisions will be made after the season when Attanasio first decides if to replace Doug, who that replacement is, and if that new guy continues having Attanasio playing a quasi-GM role as he's done with Melvin.