Orioles Interested in Gomez

[narwhalattack]

According to Ken Rosenthal, the O's have inquired about Gomez. I don't really think they can put together a package worthy of getting Gomez- they don't have much outside of Gausman and Cisco.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/07/orioles-interested-in-padres-justin-upton.html

[SRB]

Cross-posting from another thread:

 

RHP Dylan Bundy and RHP Hunter Harvey would be an interesting starting point. If that seems like a lot, keep in mind that in addition to the huge injury issues (Harvey is injured, Bundy has never been healthy), Bundy is already in his last option year (which doesn't necessarily affect team control, but means he has to sink or swim, perhaps diminishing his value). If the injuries make that sound like not enough, keep in mind we would be rolling the dice on two potential ace pitchers.

 

I think you could mix in lesser talents like C Chance Sisco (high upside catching prospect, too valuable to just be a thrown in so maybe he starts making this trade unrealistically rich), 1B Christian Walker (having a down season, but a potential 1B option to replace Lind), and 3B Jomar Reyes (powerful teenager out of the Dominican who has been performing great for his age, could be our 3B (or 1B) of the future).

[MrTPlush]

Dylan Bundy is probably too much of a risk for the Brewers to take on. You probably wouldnt get much outside of him in a trade if they would even be open to it. Hunter Harvey is in that same boat. You could get him and a couple other pieces, but do you really want an injured player as the main piece?

 

I'm not sure I would want them compared to possible deals other teams could offer and the rest of their system doesn't really look Gomez worthy.

[Mr Southpaw]

Harvey, Sisco, Hart and B Gonzalaz for Gomez.

 

Two pitchers (one maybe ace), a good young catcher, and a high potential outfield. This would help fill the cupboard.

[molitor fan]

Jomar Reyes is a beast.....

[JohnBriggs12]

O's aren't close to having enough for Gomez. Read between the lines of Melvin's comments about the present team having young players. He's looking more for high level players or controllable major leaguers. I still think Gemez won't get dealt until the winter.

[brewmann04]

Doubt they have the prospects.

[brewmann04]

Doubt they have the prospects.

[clancyphile]

I'd rather ship Gomez to the Dodgers for:

SS/3B Corey Seager

1B Cody Ballenger

C Austin Barnes

[MrTPlush]

I'd rather ship Gomez to the Dodgers for:

SS/3B Corey Seager

1B Cody Ballenger

C Austin Barnes

 

I'd rather ship him to the Angels for Trout.

[bill hAll Star]

I don't think the Dodgers would give up Seager and I also do not think they really have a user for Gomez. I mean, they'd play him, but he's not really an upgrade over Puig in RF, Joc in CF, or Ethier + Van Slyke (when healthy) or Guerrero platoon in LF.

[Jenkins5]

Honestly, Cisco and Reyes are two guys I think could be huge steals for the future. Cisco will eventually allow us to trade Lucroy and Reyes could be a monster at 3rd or 1B in future. Issue is their top arms have injury issues and none of the rest are very exciting. Hard to see how this trade could get done without Bundy or Harvey included.....with the injury issues...not sure you'd even want them included.

[brewmann04]

sorry but the dodgers are very weak in LF

[bill hAll Star]

sorry but the dodgers are very weak in LF

 

If a platoon featuring the LH side going .870 right now in a tough park and several capable RH guys, I'd like to know what you consider strong.

[JohnBriggs12]

Honestly, Cisco and Reyes are two guys I think could be huge steals for the future. Cisco will eventually allow us to trade Lucroy and Reyes could be a monster at 3rd or 1B in future. Issue is their top arms have injury issues and none of the rest are very exciting. Hard to see how this trade could get done without Bundy or Harvey included.....with the injury issues...not sure you'd even want them included.

 

Reading between the lines of Melvin's comments the other night where he said basically "we have young players on our roster we like right now", I took it as they want to surround those young players with other young major league talent, not guys 3-5 years from the major leagues who may or may not even get to the big leagues much less be impact players and by the time they arrive, Brewers will no longer be able to afford to keep guys like Nelson, Peralta, etc. That's why Baltimore is not a match. They lack young talent both on their big league club and in their high minor leagues.

 

Melvin and by inference Attanasio, is not interested in filling in around Davis, Gennett, Arcia, Nelson, Jungmann, Peralta, and bullpen arms like Knebel, Goforth, Smith, etc, and controlled vets like Braun and Lucory with a bunch of fringe veterans. They want more prospects/controlled young players with upside around them and see if they can be competitive with a younger team that's basically under control. I think they feel they are pretty well fortified in the lower levels as it is too.

[TheCrew07]

Reading between the lines of Melvin's comments the other night where he said basically "we have young players on our roster we like right now", I took it as they want to surround those young players with other young major league talent, not guys 3-5 years from the major leagues who may or may not even get to the big leagues much less be impact players and by the time they arrive, Brewers will no longer be able to afford to keep guys like Nelson, Peralta, etc. That's why Baltimore is not a match. They lack young talent both on their big league club and in their high minors.

 

You may ultimately be right but I would also suggest that you interpret it that way because that's what you would like the team to do as well since "every season is special".

 

The Brewers MO has been to trade for proven MLB players, in that there is no doubt. However the crux of the debate is what is best for the future to which my simple answer remains, get the best talent possible. Once the "MLB experience" filter is applied the number of trade options becomes vastly reduced as does the potential impact quality of players being discussed.

 

What team is going to give up a young impact pitcher already in the major leagues for the stretch run? Who's going to make their rotation worse during the season?

 

Almost every suggestion you make is for a MLB proven piece, regardless of retread status, or some kind of prospect viewed as under valued like Voglebach, who's work in the field makes Fielder look like a good 1B. So I ask, are there any scenarios where you would take back an impact prospect in AA or A+?

 

I ask because it seems from your posts year after year like you'd rather take a flier on every single marginal player DFA'd than ever trade an established MLB player for a package of prospects. If that's the case, what is ever going to change with this franchise? At some point the Brewers will just magically start developing elite pitching?

 

That's the fundamental issue here, how can the Brewers build a rotation good enough to compete with the best the league has to offer not being able to compete in FA? Swapping out marginal production for similar players or scrap heap crap isn't going to get that done. What franchise would really trade a young, healthy, and productive impact pitcher already in their rotation at the trade deadline? What contender is going to give up established corner IF prospects from their line-up at the deadline?

 

To me that's not a plan, it's not even a rational concept, it's the same obtuse thinking the Brewers have been operating under for the duration of Melvin's tenure. When franchises are just trying to be "the best team they can be in a calendar year" there's no real direction but rather just haphazard hole plugging or player swaps, there's no meaningful or definable end state. Being "competitive for the playoffs" is neither a definable plan or moving the franchise forward towards a chose end state, it's an abstract definition open to interpretation.

 

I have 2 primary goals, to field a rotation with longevity that is among the top 3 in the NL and to win a WS. To achieve those goals I believe the Brewers have to trade for young impact pitching in the minors, have to be willing to cycle aging veterans off the roster even when the team is winning, and build as robust a talent base to drawn from as possible. I don't believe in limiting options, or arbitrarily filtering talent based on what is rather meaningless criteria in the end, such as "MLB experience"... why do I want another Dave Bush? Or Yuni B.? Or Wes Helms? We can develop those kinds of players internally... we have them now... Jason Rogers, Khris Davis, Scooter Gennett, Jimmy Nelson, Taylor Jungmann, and Tyler Cravy.

 

Impact pitching is my primary driving factor, overall talent is my secondary concern, and I don't care what level of baseball they are playing at as long we can control him for than 3 years. That's how the Brewers can obtain and sustain a high level of success. 2 playoff appearances in 10 years isn't success, it's not even mediocre, it's only slightly better than nothing, and the results are completely unworthy of the positional talent which has come through Milwaukee in those 10 years. The fact that so many people think it's an accomplishment worthy of celebration is more a reflection of how bad the Brewers were, rather than unbiased assessment of what they did with the talent they had.

 

In 2004 if someone had told us the Brewers would only make the playoffs twice in the next 10 years and only win 1 playoff series the majority wouldn't have believed or accepted that was the best that group of prospects could do. I personally wouldn't have and in fact I probably would have walked away from brewerfan.net and not ever participated in any of the stuff on the draft and milb forums. That's not winning, that's moving the franchise to mediocrity and then spinning wheels hoping for the best.

 

The Brewer's last 10 years isn't acceptable for any other major sport in WI with the exception of maybe the Bucks, whom the Brewers are in danger of becoming. The Packers, all Badger teams, and Marquette basketball have set a much higher standard than that. We've had a phenomenal 20 years with regular playoff/bowl appearances, multiple Superbowl and Rose Bowl appearances, NCAA tournament and national championship hope, and of course national championships from Badger hockey. For example I don't care about the state teams making the NCAA tournament, I care about getting to the Final Four so likewise I don't care about getting to the playoffs and being 1 and done in baseball or football, I care about regularly appearing in the the championship games and winning titles.

 

There are teams out there like the Rays who have done more with much less from a payroll standpoint... it's not about how much you can spend, it's about how much talent you can acquire. We need to focus less on spending money and more on ultimate value as a franchise or the Brewers will stay right about the same place as they've been, because that's all you can really achieve when you buy talent and max out the payroll in the low $100 mil range. The Brewers will never be able to buy enough wins to compete with the larger markets, a different set of tactics is required to achieve and sustain success.

[PeaveyFury]

 

The Brewers MO has been to trade for proven MLB players, in that there is no doubt.

 

That's a blanket statement that I doubt plenty. You're not accounting for the different place the team is now vs. where it was over the past few seasons- competitive vs. not competitive. And even in recent trades of Gallardo and Greinke, they certainly did not trade for "proven MLB players."

 

Even dating back to the era prior to their 5-6 years of being generally competitive, there are plenty of examples where the current front office traded veterans for unproven talent.

[Boomer5]

Reading between the lines of Melvin's comments the other night where he said basically "we have young players on our roster we like right now", I took it as they want to surround those young players with other young major league talent, not guys 3-5 years from the major leagues who may or may not even get to the big leagues much less be impact players and by the time they arrive, Brewers will no longer be able to afford to keep guys like Nelson, Peralta, etc. That's why Baltimore is not a match. They lack young talent both on their big league club and in their high minors.

 

You may ultimately be right but I would also suggest that you interpret it that way because that's what you would like the team to do as well since "every season is special".

 

The Brewers MO has been to trade for proven MLB players, in that there is no doubt. However the crux of the debate is what is best for the future to which my simple answer remains, get the best talent possible. Once the "MLB experience" filter is applied the number of trade options becomes vastly reduced as does the potential impact quality of players being discussed.

 

What team is going to give up a young impact pitcher already in the major leagues for the stretch run? Who's going to make their rotation worse during the season?

 

Almost every suggestion you make is for a MLB proven piece, regardless of retread status, or some kind of prospect viewed as under valued like Voglebach, who's work in the field makes Fielder look like a good 1B. So I ask, are there any scenarios where you would take back an impact prospect in AA or A+?

 

I ask because it seems from your posts year after year like you'd rather take a flier on every single marginal player DFA'd than ever trade an established MLB player for a package of prospects. If that's the case, what is ever going to change with this franchise? At some point the Brewers will just magically start developing elite pitching?

 

That's the fundamental issue here, how can the Brewers build a rotation good enough to compete with the best the league has to offer not being able to compete in FA? Swapping out marginal production for similar players or scrap heap crap isn't going to get that done. What franchise would really trade a young, healthy, and productive impact pitcher already in their rotation at the trade deadline? What contender is going to give up established corner IF prospects from their line-up at the deadline?

 

To me that's not a plan, it's not even a rational concept, it's the same obtuse thinking the Brewers have been operating under for the duration of Melvin's tenure. When franchises are just trying to be "the best team they can be in a calendar year" there's no real direction but rather just haphazard hole plugging or player swaps, there's no meaningful or definable end state. Being "competitive for the playoffs" is neither a definable plan or moving the franchise forward towards a chose end state, it's an abstract definition open to interpretation.

 

I have 2 primary goals, to field a rotation with longevity that is among the top 3 in the NL and to win a WS. To achieve those goals I believe the Brewers have to trade for young impact pitching in the minors, have to be willing to cycle aging veterans off the roster even when the team is winning, and build as robust a talent base to drawn from as possible. I don't believe in limiting options, or arbitrarily filtering talent based on what is rather meaningless criteria in the end, such as "MLB experience"... why do I want another Dave Bush? Or Yuni B.? Or Wes Helms? We can develop those kinds of players internally... we have them now... Jason Rogers, Khris Davis, Scooter Gennett, Jimmy Nelson, Taylor Jungmann, and Tyler Cravy.

 

Impact pitching is my primary driving factor, overall talent is my secondary concern, and I don't care what level of baseball they are playing at as long we can control him for than 3 years. That's how the Brewers can obtain and sustain a high level of success. 2 playoff appearances in 10 years isn't success, it's not even mediocre, it's only slightly better than nothing, and the results are completely unworthy of the positional talent which has come through Milwaukee in those 10 years. The fact that so many people think it's an accomplishment worthy of celebration is more a reflection of how bad the Brewers were, rather than unbiased assessment of what they did with the talent they had.

 

In 2004 if someone had told us the Brewers would only make the playoffs twice in the next 10 years and only win 1 playoff series the majority wouldn't have believed or accepted that was the best that group of prospects could do. I personally wouldn't have and in fact I probably would have walked away from brewerfan.net and not ever participated in any of the stuff on the draft and milb forums. That's not winning, that's moving the franchise to mediocrity and then spinning wheels hoping for the best.

 

The Brewer's last 10 years isn't acceptable for any other major sport in WI with the exception of maybe the Bucks, whom the Brewers are in danger of becoming. The Packers, all Badger teams, and Marquette basketball have set a much higher standard than that. We've had a phenomenal 20 years with regular playoff/bowl appearances, multiple Superbowl and Rose Bowl appearances, NCAA tournament and national championship hope, and of course national championships from Badger hockey. For example I don't care about the state teams making the NCAA tournament, I care about getting to the Final Four so likewise I don't care about getting to the playoffs and being 1 and done in baseball or football, I care about regularly appearing in the the championship games and winning titles.

 

There are teams out there like the Rays who have done more with much less from a payroll standpoint... it's not about how much you can spend, it's about how much talent you can acquire. We need to focus less on spending money and more on ultimate value as a franchise or the Brewers will stay right about the same place as they've been, because that's all you can really achieve when you buy talent and max out the payroll in the low $100 mil range. The Brewers will never be able to buy enough wins to compete with the larger markets, a different set of tactics is required to achieve and sustain success.

 

There's a lot going on with this post, and I agree with most of it.

 

The Rays developed pitching. The Brewers are just now doing that, and thats assuming you buy into a 2016 big 4 of Jungmann, Wily, Nelson, and Fiers.

[bill hAll Star]

The Rays developed pitching. The Brewers are just now doing that, and thats assuming you buy into a 2016 big 4 of Jungmann, Wily, Nelson, and Fiers.

 

Not that I think this projected staff is terrible - but none of these guys have the potential of Price, Shields, Archer, Odorizzi, Moore (pre-injury), or maybe Cobb. These guys are more in-line with the depth that the Rays bring up to the back end of their rotation.

 

Jungmann is a huge wild card, I guess. I feel like he's probably going to regress to the #4 guy we expect, but I guess maybe they brought him up right as he blossomed.

[LouisEly]

Back to the Orioles and Gomez...

[danzig6767]

 

The Rays developed pitching. The Brewers are just now doing that, and thats assuming you buy into a 2016 big 4 of Jungmann, Wily, Nelson, and Fiers.

Almost every team in baseball has drafted and developed pitching better than the Brewers have for a really long time, excluding some better results of late. Tampa isn't alone in that. It's almost hard to draft as poorly as the Brewers have at pitching over what, two decades or so.

 

The farm system though is starting to show some promise again, which is very refreshing. Hopefully a trade or two/three at the deadline adds to that promise, along with a new GM being named after the season. I feel somewhat optimistic so long as Attanasio doesn't meddle to much..

[TheCrew07]

 

The Brewers MO has been to trade for proven MLB players, in that there is no doubt.

 

That's a blanket statement that I doubt plenty. You're not accounting for the different place the team is now vs. where it was over the past few seasons- competitive vs. not competitive. And even in recent trades of Gallardo and Greinke, they certainly did not trade for "proven MLB players."

 

Even dating back to the era prior to their 5-6 years of being generally competitive, there are plenty of examples where the current front office traded veterans for unproven talent.

 

I was referring specifically to impact talent, not to deals like trading Franklin and Estrella for Woolard and Villanueva, Gabe Gross for Josh Bulter, Kolb for Capella, K-Rod for Delmonico, Hall for Flores and so on. Don't get me wrong, I liked Villy, but he was never a top of the rotation piece nor should we have expected him to be given what we gave up. Those aren't the kind of the deals that put a franchise over the top and were largely swapping crap for crap. Villy was far and away the best player to come out of any of those trades. K-Rod was only player moved off the pile who had any significant trade value and I wasn't shy about my dislike of Delmonico from the start.

 

Every trade of anyone any consequence has brought MLB ready talent, sure there might have an unproven prospect or 2 in there, but the focal point was a MLB or MLB ready player.

 

Off the top of my head:

 

Sexson... well the whole trade with the exception JDLR was MLB ready talent.

Overbay... Gross and Bush

Podsednik... Carlos Lee

Carlos Lee and Nelson Cruz... Cordero and Mench

Cirillo and Carl... Haynes, Blanco, and Wright

Davis and Eveland... Vargas and Estrada

JDLR... Graffanino

Spivey... Ohka

Greinke... Segura

Gallardo... Sardinas

 

I won't even get into buying assets that had no chance of putting the Brewers over the top like Lopez (twice), Linebrink, and Morgan.

 

This organization has a long history of chasing a couple of extra wins at the expense of making significant change, or put another way like the company I work for tends to do in spending $20 in extra work to chase down $5 in cash.

 

It may not seem like it but I pull most of my punches on the minor league forum because I know families read the link reports, so I try to be unbiased and to the point when talking about players, generally trying to stay focused on the positive aspects. However in private I'll let loose, and I've learned something new every year so I was feeling much differently about the way the Brewers were operating by 2008 and by 2011 I was pretty much done with the front office.

 

I was quite naive when I first found this site but again I think there is a ton of information available in various forms on the internet if people are willing to take the time to dig in and educate themselves. My personal philosophy on organization building is pulled together from 1000s of difference sources over the years including insightful comments and idea from posters on this very site.

 

The tragedy is that many posters will just to stick to the rut they are comfortable with and never really challenge their own beliefs so they aren't taking advantage of the difference of opinion/ideas to branch out or expand their mental toolbox available here. In general I'm not a fan of absolutes and in truth the only absolutes I subscribe to are that there is a correct way to throw a baseball and that the Brewers will never get over the top operating as they have.

 

The Brewers have operated way too linearly for me and as such are conservative and predictable. Since the front office is neither innovative or aggressive I have serious doubts concerning their ability to learn from the past and correct mistakes. For example, Melvin has offered just about any player who's performed at all a long term deal, and he's gotten very lucky that the players turned him down. Signing pre-arby players to contact extensions is an excellent way to buy more value for the dollar but that's not a philosophy to bbe applied universally to every player who is productive. I actually thought signing Segura might have been a good idea as he converted from skeptic to believer in that first season, but I was wrong and wasn't patient enough. The object should be to have elite core to build around and then cycle everyone else through keeping the average age of the team in that 26-27 year age which naturally will balance payroll vs production and maximize value.

[PeaveyFury]

 

The Brewers MO has been to trade for proven MLB players, in that there is no doubt.

 

That's a blanket statement that I doubt plenty. You're not accounting for the different place the team is now vs. where it was over the past few seasons- competitive vs. not competitive. And even in recent trades of Gallardo and Greinke, they certainly did not trade for "proven MLB players."

 

Even dating back to the era prior to their 5-6 years of being generally competitive, there are plenty of examples where the current front office traded veterans for unproven talent.

 

Every trade of anyone any consequence has brought MLB ready talent, sure there might have an unproven prospect or 2 in there, but the focal point was a MLB or MLB ready player.

 

Well sure, you can certainly make that case, but that's not the point you made in your original post- "proven MLB players" and "MLB ready talent" are two very different things.

 

I'll agree that most of their trades of veteran MLB assets have been for MLB-ready talent, but strongly disagree on the other point.

 

And honestly, I don't care if their trades of assets now and in the offseason is for MLB ready talent or A ball talent- the point is that they get talent to add to the organization. Sure, we'd all prefer a Segura or Gomez-type player that is ready but unestablished, but not at the expense of taking a guy who is closer while passing over a top 30 prospect who is a couple more years away.

[And That]

Orioles Appear Willing To Discuss Kevin Gausman In Deals

 

There's a good starting point for Gomez.

[monkeyman343434]

Gausman, the #5 pick in the Competitive Balance Round B in next year's draft, and one of Sisco/Walker/Reyes. Is that too much for Gomez? Not enough?