What do you think Parra is going to get in FA?

[ewitkows]

What if we signed him 3-4 years and traded Gomez. I'm not sold on Tyrone Taylor offense. I'm not sure he's more than a 4th OF. Parra would be a nice stopgap till the next wave gets here and he's not that huge of a drop off from Gomez. 3/30?

[MrTPlush]

Gerardo Parra's defense has really nose dived the past 3 years. He hasn't even been average at the corner positions so no way he is moved to center full time. Why exactly would we extend an average hitter with declining defense for 3-4 years?

 

You would be fired for giving him 3 years let alone 30mil. He isn't that good and riding an unsustainable hot streak.

[jerichoholicninja]

No reason to pay Parra to play on a losing team. He needs to be traded this season. Someone will probably overpay for him this offseason though.

[reillymcshane]

I think he gets $5-6 million. Maybe two years - three tops. Guys like Aoki and DeJesus are comps. They each got about $5M a year.

 

As noted, Parra isn't a very good CF. He can play there, but a good team doesn't want him in there full time.

 

And let's not forget he's more of a platoon guy. He doesn't hit lefties well. Hes a good player, but he's not anything great. He needs to find a team that needs him - so free agency is good for him.

[clancyphile]

I think he gets $5-6 million. Maybe two years - three tops. Guys like Aoki and DeJesus are comps. They each got about $5M a year.

 

As noted, Parra isn't a very good CF. He can play there, but a good team doesn't want him in there full time.

 

And let's not forget he's more of a platoon guy. He doesn't hit lefties well. Hes a good player, but he's not anything great. He needs to find a team that needs him - so free agency is good for him.

 

Maybe you are looking for that stopgap, though, until the CF of the future arrives. Parra's an option, but Michael Reed in Biloxi looks to be a much cheaper alternative for that purpose.

[ewitkows]

But would the Brewers trust Reed?

[DuWayne Steurer]

Parra's hitting a bit above his career norms. I don't want to pay him to be a .750 OPS corner outfielder playing average to subpar defense at above market rate. I'd love to see him get traded while he is essentially smoking hot with the stick. Let's sell high for once.

[JohnBriggs12]

He's going to get a heck of a lot more than $5-6 million if he keeps his OPS over .800. Melky Cabrera got 3 yrs and 42 million coming off an almost identical season to the one Parra's having now. Parra's career numbers aren't far off Cabrera either and he's just 28.

 

I'm starting to think I'd hold on to him and give him a QO. If he takes it ok, he'd be overpaid but he wouldn't be tying up cash into the future. If he signs elsewhere, he brings back a nice high draft pick. If he turns it down, but doesn't get what he's looking for, then approach him with a team friendly offer for 3 years.

 

I won't even get into the discussion that his defense is average to subpar. That's ridiculous.

 

Aoki and DeJesus aren't comps. Aoki is 5 years older. DeJesus is 7 years older. We are in a different era. Offense is down. Look at the lineups teams are trotting out there. Most aren't very good. Parra has a chance to make a lot.

[MrTPlush]

His defense outside of his arm is average at best. Those oh so meaningful gold glove awards must be blinding you. Yesterday he got burned horribly on a fly ball. Ran in 10 feet before he realized it was going to the warning track. Anyone who thinks his defense is more than average is kidding themselves.

 

He isn't worth that much and he isn't going to keep up his current pace. His .350 BAPIP is going to crash back down to earth real quick. Holding on to him and giving him a QO assures us to have an overpriced corner outfielder for a good $14mil.

 

You guys are losing your minds over a good week or two. I don't think average players are worth $30mil commitments.

[nate82]

Parra should get anywhere between $15-20m on a 3-year deal this off season.

[umphrey]

The demand for him in the past wasn't that great. He'll likely be priced by his 2012-2014 years and his numbers at the end of this year will probably look closer to those.

[JohnBriggs12]

Parra should get anywhere between $15-20m on a 3-year deal this off season.

 

He'll get closer to double that. More like $27-33 million over 3 with an option.

 

If he'd take 3 and 15, I'd sign him in a heartbeat if I'm the Brewers.

[Boomer5]

His value has never been higher, the Brewers need to trade him, not extend him.

[adambr2]

His value has never been higher, the Brewers need to trade him, not extend him.

 

Exactly. Parra is exactly the kind of player we should be looking to unload. I'd be modestly upset about a 8 figure per year extension for a player like him with the current state of the franchise.

[JohnBriggs12]

His value has never been higher, the Brewers need to trade him, not extend him.

 

Exactly. Parra is exactly the kind of player we should be looking to unload. I'd be modestly upset about a 8 figure per year extension for a player like him with the current state of the franchise.

 

I guess we disagree about the current state of the franchise with the emphasis on current. It's apparently not nearly as bad as it looked back in May. 2015 was sabotaged by a terrible start, lack of hitting and poor pitching by the veteran well paid starters, and by injuries, but the core of the team is fine. A very good case could be made that this team is an ace away from being a top contender. Not this year certainly but in 2016, even if they do decide to deal Gomez, provided they get something back that's useful in 2016 as part of the deal.

 

I'm not opposed per se in dealing Parra, but his price has gone up and if all teams are offering is one B level prospect, I'd at least be thinking twice rather than blindly sticking with the mantra that he must be dealt regardless of return. Parra is a FA and the more he hits, the higher his value in the FA market. Does that get to the point where you'd consider risking a QO on him in the offseason in hopes of landing a draft pick that might have more value than what he'd get you in a trade? Worst case scenario, you overpay him for 2016 and get that B level prospect next year in a deal.

[monty57]

I guess we disagree about the current state of the franchise with the emphasis on current. It's apparently not nearly as bad as it looked back in May. 2015 was sabotaged by a terrible start, lack of hitting and poor pitching by the veteran well paid starters, and by injuries, but the core of the team is fine. A very good case could be made that this team is an ace away from being a top contender. Not this year certainly but in 2016, even if they do decide to deal Gomez, provided they get something back that's useful in 2016 as part of the deal.

 

And they were "sabotaged" in 2012 and 2013 by bad starts, and in 2014 by a bad finish. Every time the team plays poorly, people think they're horrible, and every time they play well, people think they're a contender. Maybe the teams are just being "sabotaged" by being moderately talented and extremely streaky, and fans should stop basing their opinions on the extreme hot/cold streaks we've had for the past four seasons. Since 2012, we have been a roughly .500 team that has played very well during stretches and very poorly during others. We're not a contender now, and we won't be a contender next year, but as long as the team can keep fan interest high, the team will turn a profit and Attanasio will continue to operate like the 1970's Cubs.

[Roderick]

Worst case scenario, you overpay him for 2016 and get that B level prospect next year in a deal.

 

The Brewers are not going to compete in 2016, so they shouldn't be spending anymore than they have to. I would say there is about a 96% chance that he would take the QO the second it is offered. The only reason not to isn't because of money, it would be because he doesn't want to play on a loser or doesn't like Milwaukee. And even then, he would have to wait until June, because nobody is going to give up their 1st round pick for him.

[adambr2]

His value has never been higher, the Brewers need to trade him, not extend him.

 

Exactly. Parra is exactly the kind of player we should be looking to unload. I'd be modestly upset about a 8 figure per year extension for a player like him with the current state of the franchise.

 

I guess we disagree about the current state of the franchise with the emphasis on current. It's apparently not nearly as bad as it looked back in May. 2015 was sabotaged by a terrible start, lack of hitting and poor pitching by the veteran well paid starters, and by injuries, but the core of the team is fine. A very good case could be made that this team is an ace away from being a top contender. Not this year certainly but in 2016, even if they do decide to deal Gomez, provided they get something back that's useful in 2016 as part of the deal.

 

I'm not opposed per se in dealing Parra, but his price has gone up and if all teams are offering is one B level prospect, I'd at least be thinking twice rather than blindly sticking with the mantra that he must be dealt regardless of return. Parra is a FA and the more he hits, the higher his value in the FA market. Does that get to the point where you'd consider risking a QO on him in the offseason in hopes of landing a draft pick that might have more value than what he'd get you in a trade? Worst case scenario, you overpay him for 2016 and get that B level prospect next year in a deal.

 

We're currently the 4th worst team in baseball by record. (1/2 game away from being the 2nd worst), despite the 8 game winning streak. I don't think we're an ace away from being a top contender, more or less than any other team besides the Phillies are. By the way, the injury effects for this team are mostly a myth. We've actually been about the least affected team by injuries in 2015. http://www.mangameslost.com/mlb-disabled-list-games-missed-and-tmitt-metrics-july-4-2015/

 

A B level prospect for Parra is fine. We're certainly not getting a top 50 for him. I think we can all agree we're not winning this year, so taking a B level prospect for Parra and gaining salary relief aside is much better than hanging onto him and losing him for nothing. If you really like him, you can go after him in free agency anyway even after trading him like we did with K-Rod. There's no way he's worth a qualifying offer even if he keeps his current pace up. That's going to be roughly a 1 year/$16M offer. I can't imagine they would risk a crazy offer like that for a decent 28 year old outfielder whose defense has become questionable more recently.

[jerichoholicninja]

A very good case could be made that this team is an ace away from being a top contender. Not this year certainly but in 2016, even if they do decide to deal Gomez, provided they get something back that's useful in 2016 as part of the deal.

 

This is not even remotely true. Adding a true, legit, #1 pitcher to the rotation makes it a rotation of a #1 and 4 question marks instead of 5 question marks. That rotation does not put the Brewers ahead of the Cardinals or the Pirates, probably not even the Cubs. That wouldn't even be a "top contender" for the division. Best case scenario would be lots of injuries to those 3 teams, a healthy Brewers team, and barely making it into the wild card game. I'm not willing to take that gamble.

 

Worst case scenario, you overpay him for 2016 and get that B level prospect next year in a deal.

 

Parra accepting a QO next year means he'll have about $7M left on his contract at the trade deadline. That's a lot of money for a team to take on for a guy who's a 3/4 OF. And why wait to get the "B level prospect" next year when you could get him this year?

 

Bottom line, there is no reason for Parra to be a Brewer in 2016 unless no one wants him in free agency and he comes back on a cheap, one year deal.

[Raw Biz]

I guess we disagree about the current state of the franchise with the emphasis on current. It's apparently not nearly as bad as it looked back in May. 2015 was sabotaged by a terrible start, lack of hitting and poor pitching by the veteran well paid starters, and by injuries, but the core of the team is fine. A very good case could be made that this team is an ace away from being a top contender. Not this year certainly but in 2016, even if they do decide to deal Gomez, provided they get something back that's useful in 2016 as part of the deal.

 

And they were "sabotaged" in 2012 and 2013 by bad starts, and in 2014 by a bad finish. Every time the team plays poorly, people think they're horrible, and every time they play well, people think they're a contender. Maybe the teams are just being "sabotaged" by being moderately talented and extremely streaky, and fans should stop basing their opinions on the extreme hot/cold streaks we've had for the past four seasons. Since 2012, we have been a roughly .500 team that has played very well during stretches and very poorly during others. We're not a contender now, and we won't be a contender next year, but as long as the team can keep fan interest high, the team will turn a profit and Attanasio will continue to operate like the 1970's Cubs.

 

Thank you, I was looking for a way to describe my feelings. Honestly the original post led me into a blind rage. I just don't understand how people can continue to feel this way. Nobody wants to go back to the late 90s/early 2000s, I get that. What lots of people are proposing here is how to avoid doing exactly that.

 

We can't be blind to the fact that the team as constructed is not very good and is not ready to compete with the division, let alone the rest of the league. However, I think the farm is in a better position than the Astros/Cubs were when they began their rebuilds a few years ago. We need to trade at least 2 of our most valuable assets (Gomez, Segura, Lucroy), plus the guys with expiring deals, and retool/rebuild/whateveryouwanttocallit for 2017/2018. I think that is a reasonable target but if we hold on to these pieces, the wait will be even longer and more painful.

[CheezWizHed]

I was just looking at the SPs in the NL for another thread and noticed this:

STL has 3 starting pitchers in the top 10 ERA in the NL. A fourth is in the top 20.

 

Our top is Mike Fiers at #30.

 

You might not like ERA, but the story is similar if you use other metrics. The disparity is huge.

[Boomer5]

I guess we disagree about the current state of the franchise with the emphasis on current. It's apparently not nearly as bad as it looked back in May. 2015 was sabotaged by a terrible start, lack of hitting and poor pitching by the veteran well paid starters, and by injuries, but the core of the team is fine. A very good case could be made that this team is an ace away from being a top contender. Not this year certainly but in 2016, even if they do decide to deal Gomez, provided they get something back that's useful in 2016 as part of the deal.

 

I'm not opposed per se in dealing Parra, but his price has gone up and if all teams are offering is one B level prospect, I'd at least be thinking twice rather than blindly sticking with the mantra that he must be dealt regardless of return. Parra is a FA and the more he hits, the higher his value in the FA market. Does that get to the point where you'd consider risking a QO on him in the offseason in hopes of landing a draft pick that might have more value than what he'd get you in a trade? Worst case scenario, you overpay him for 2016 and get that B level prospect next year in a deal.

 

The core of the team is not fine. The 8 game winning streak must have gone to some fans heads but not mine. This is still a very bad baseball team from top to bottom. This is not a 90 to 95 win team in 2016 if they keep this roster the same and lets say they somehow add an ace without giving up anything.

 

Parra has played well enough to generate a good return, certainly more than we paid for him. Trading him is just good asset management.

[Point Beer Is Best]

Taking all the information we have available, I'm not sure how anyone could come to the conclusion that trading Parra is not option #1. He's peforming above his career norms in a showcase situation filling in for injured starters. That's the exact scenario we needed for him to maximize his value at the trade deadline. And in my opinion, he has more value to the franchise as trade bait than to hang onto him. He will command more in FA than it would make sense for a team like the Brewers who should be rebuilding and not spending $7 mil/year (or whatever he may command) as a 4th OF. I would be firmly in the "Fire Melvin" camp if they were to make a move so questionable as to give him a $15 mil QO.

 

The only scenario that I would be ok with a modest extension (2 years with a mutual/club option for 3rd year) is if you are able to land a huge haul for Gomez. But even then, as others have said, he's really not a guy you can trust everyday in CF, so that's not really even a realistic option either.

[RobertR]

How do we define the "core" of the team? Gomez, Lucroy, and Braun have All Star potential when not hampered by injuries, but obviously injury issues have cropped up for all of them the last 2 years. Lind, Segura, Gennett, and Davis have some upside, but are probably average-ish overall. ARam is obviously on his last legs. There are no impact bats in AAA or on the bench. The starting rotation is mediocre with no potential aces. The bullpen is good, but not quite lights out, and we all know bullpens are volatile year to year. I don't think it's hard to say that the best days are already behind this group. Yeah, they're not as bad as they were in April, but this is a group that needs EVERYTHING to go right to compete and that happens very rarely in baseball.

[DuWayne Steurer]

How do we define the "core" of the team? Gomez, Lucroy, and Braun have All Star potential when not hampered by injuries, but obviously injury issues have cropped up for all of them the last 2 years. Lind, Segura, Gennett, and Davis have some upside, but are probably average-ish overall. ARam is obviously on his last legs. There are no impact bats in AAA or on the bench. The starting rotation is mediocre with no potential aces. The bullpen is good, but not quite lights out, and we all know bullpens are volatile year to year. I don't think it's hard to say that the best days are already behind this group. Yeah, they're not as bad as they were in April, but this is a group that needs EVERYTHING to go right to compete and that happens very rarely in baseball.

 

 

Not to mention Braun is 31, Gomez and Lucroy are both 29, and will need to be extended before this team is REALLY going to be ready to compete again, and should we be extending guys who are looking for mega contracts who are pushing into their 30's? In a word..... no.