Milwaukee Bucks 2015 - 2016

[homer]

I have tried to stay optimistic. But when I see what a struggle it was to get Miller Park built and Lambeau updated, hard not to be realistic. Those teams have much bigger followings, and it was a battle to the end. I know the public portion for the new arena is much less, no sales tax, etc. But still an uphill battle. Then I saw the plans, listened to the politicians and I was cautiously optimistic. Now that it has been removed from the state budget, I'm back to being realistic.

 

How many up-state politicians will vote for this? Honestly, I think the city and county should have come up with the full $250MM. They are the ones that directly benefit from the arena and the surrounding development that comes with it. I just don't see anyone in Milwaukee fighting very hard for this.

 

 

Lambeau and Miller Park required tax increases.

[superfly]

I have tried to stay optimistic. But when I see what a struggle it was to get Miller Park built and Lambeau updated, hard not to be realistic. Those teams have much bigger followings, and it was a battle to the end. I know the public portion for the new arena is much less, no sales tax, etc. But still an uphill battle. Then I saw the plans, listened to the politicians and I was cautiously optimistic. Now that it has been removed from the state budget, I'm back to being realistic.

 

How many up-state politicians will vote for this? Honestly, I think the city and county should have come up with the full $250MM. They are the ones that directly benefit from the arena and the surrounding development that comes with it. I just don't see anyone in Milwaukee fighting very hard for this.

 

 

Because everybody notices that $0.03 tax increase on stuff they buy. Pure absurdity. And I am about as far from a traditional big government type of person as one can get.

[nate82]

I don't understand why owners with a combined net worth of $3 billion are pushing for public funding other than to save money. The fear mongering and scare tactics are absurd. Government brought this on itself by getting into bed to fund businesses in the past. I am a Bucks fan and want them to stay but this is not in the purview of what government should be concerning themselves with.

 

While I agree to a point both the city and the owners are benefiting from this. The city needs to pay for some of this as they are benefiting from a new arena and development. The city can't be just taking a free ride on the owners and expect to get everything without giving up something.

 

It is not going to be the owners who move the Bucks out of Milwaukee it will be the NBA moving the Bucks out of Milwaukee. It doesn't matter how much the owners put forward with this deal as the city is going to have to pay something or they will lose the Bucks completely and will be left with an overburden with an arena that needs to be repaired. The city is going to have to invest money either way if it is the Bucks staying or leaving they are going to have to do something with the arena.

 

This is not fear mongering or scare tactics by the ownership of the Bucks. This is a fact that the Bucks will be leaving if a deal is not done as the NBA has a mandate on it.

[patrickgpe]

I don't understand why owners with a combined net worth of $3 billion are pushing for public funding other than to save money. The fear mongering and scare tactics are absurd. Government brought this on itself by getting into bed to fund businesses in the past. I am a Bucks fan and want them to stay but this is not in the purview of what government should be concerning themselves with.

 

This is how every stadium is built. This debate is identical to what Kings and Vikings fans dealt with. While they could easily build the arena and that they are the ones to most benefit from it, the cost of doing business is for local / state governments to help subsidize the arena.

[fondybrewfan]

Also these guys are billionaires but even then its not like most billionaires have $500 Million in cash lying around. A lot of them are illiquid with real estate various businesses, etc They are probably borrowing a portion of the $150 Million they are already pledging to put in. And who knows how much they borrowed just to buy the team

[tmwiese55]

And even if they could afford it, it's just not good business. They didn't become billionaires by giving away 250mil just because they can. If Milwaukee won't pay, some other city will. Obviously Seattle, but also Vegas. I generally agree that it's usually a losing proposition when cities/states fund this stuff (check out what the Marlins did to Miami) and it's kind of whack that they have to. However, it's just simple capitalism, if one city won't another will. Team owners have no reason to stop doing it until they have no other options.

 

That being said, this is one of the friendliest deals for a city/state that I remember over the years. Other than some kind of bad interest deal that sounds like is attached to it. 50% paid for by current and past owners. People say why don't they pay for it themselves, well they did chip in 150mil so they're doing their share much more than other owners. I never see it brought up but I don't see why an NBA team can't just take a low interest loan from the NBA to fill in gaps like this.

[patrickgpe]

I never see it brought up but I don't see why an NBA team can't just take a low interest loan from the NBA to fill in gaps like this.

 

Herb Kohl has taken advantage of many low interest loans from the NBA, not sure what it can be used for.

[And That]

And even if they could afford it, it's just not good business. They didn't become billionaires by giving away 250mil just because they can. If Milwaukee won't pay, some other city will.

Except for that if they fail to build an arena, the NBA buys the team. Might be a small profit involved, but the owners won't be moving the team, the league will. Would make more sense financially for them to get the thing built and have their capital appreciate over the long term. And that's why I have to think this gets done, someway somehow. These guys never would have bought the team if they didn't have full confidence that they'd get an arena built.

[FVBrewerFan]

These guys never would have bought the team if they didn't have full confidence that they'd get an arena built.

 

Then they were foolish if they had full confidence in the state, and especially local government. When this does not pass at the state level, and it won't, the city needs to step up very quickly and find a way to get it done. I sure hope they have a plan for that, but somehow I doubt it. Last option is for the Owners to pay for the whole thing, or bring in new investors to help make up the difference. The state's portion is the smallest piece, so there are many ways to make up that difference- I just don't sense anyone taking charge of this.

[tmwiese55]

Does anyone know if it's for sure the NBA buys them? I know it's a guaranteed option but is it the only option. Could they say no to the meer 50mil profit the NBA is offering and say we'd rather sell it to the guy in Seattle for 200mil profit, or continue to own it but move the team to somewhere else?

 

The reason you state though is probably why they've offered up as much as they have already. Maybe if this gets denied they still will pay for it but it's still smart for them to try the public funding route first.

[And That]

Then they were foolish if they had full confidence in the state, and especially local government.

They may or may not have, but in any case it would be even more foolish of them not to try to get the most public money possible, which is what they are doing. Again, I have to believe they have contingency plans A, B, C, D, E, F, G, and H, and had it all mapped out before agreeing to purchase the team. I don't get the impression that Lasry, Edens and Dinan are the type of businessmen to fly by the seats of their pants in this sort of thing.

[BrewBalls]

I think the Bucks still need to make a few minor moves to balance out thier roster. We cannot go into the season with 5 point guards, 4 centers and JOB as our only back up PF. I would do the following:

 

1 Three way trade with Cavs and Warriors.

 

Bucks Out - Mayo, Gutierrez and Plumlee

Cavs Out - Haywood and Christmas

Warriors Out - Lee and Future 2nd RdPick

 

Bucks In - Lee and Christmas

Cavs In - Mayo, Plumlee and 2nd Rd Pick

Warriors In - Haywood and Gutierrez

 

Bucks get a stretch 4 who can play next to Henson and a young big who they can develop. Cavs get a bench scorer, back up big and a future pick. Warriors get salary relief ($13.5M) which should lower their luxury tax.

 

2. Sign Alan Anderson (2yrs/$8M) He can play either SG or SF and offers another scoring option coming off the bench.

 

3. Waive O'Bryant

 

PG - MCW, Vasquez, Bayless, Ennis

SG - Middleton, Anderson, Vaughn

SF - Giannis, Inglis

PF - Parker, Lee, Christmas

C - Monroe, Henson, Zaza

[tmwiese55]

not a bad idea. Some of this is why I don't see why they did the Vasquez trade, seemed like I'd rather have Dudley to pack up positions 2-4 than him at 1 and 2 when you already have Bayless and Mayo. Has to be another trade in the works.

 

I actually was just thinking about let's say they trade out Mayo. What about trying to get Ray Allen to come back for one last year with us as the backup SG. Could be good for the young guys to be around him and good PR. Don't really need him if you have Mayo. I know they asked him about it last year but our team was a joke going into last year, they're legit now.

[FVBrewerFan]

We cannot go into the season with 5 point guards, 4 centers and JOB as our only back up PF

 

Well, I reject the notion they have 5 PG and 4 centers. Henson and Monroe can both play C or PF. Giannis can also play PF. MCW is the only clear PG, Vasquez will play mostly PG, but he will play some 2 as well. Bayless is also a combo guard who may not even play much if Vaughn is ready. Ennis is a non-factor.

 

It's all about match-ups, it's not as easy as just saying someone is a PG or a 3 , etc. Look at the playoffs, Giannis played virtually every position. Parker can play 3/4. Middleton can play 2/3.

 

With all that said, I agree with you they will still make a move or two.

[BrewersSuperCollector]

Does anyone know if it's for sure the NBA buys them? I know it's a guaranteed option but is it the only option. Could they say no to the meer 50mil profit the NBA is offering and say we'd rather sell it to the guy in Seattle for 200mil profit, or continue to own it but move the team to somewhere else?

 

The reason you state though is probably why they've offered up as much as they have already. Maybe if this gets denied they still will pay for it but it's still smart for them to try the public funding route first.

 

 

Yes, this is true. The nba buys them back for 550 million if I remember correctly. Then the team gets put up for auction. The profit gets divided between the existing owners which could mean 30 million per team. I don't know for sure but maybe this is the way Herb wanted it so the newBucks owners had the keep the team in Milwaukee.

[BrewersSuperCollector]

Without getting too political... I don't think the Bucks owners realized how polarizing the states politics are. I'm sure they didn't help the cause by being with Obama when he was on stage supporting Mary Burke for governor.

[tmwiese55]

Yes, this is true. The nba buys them back for 550 million if I remember correctly. Then the team gets put up for auction. The profit gets divided between the existing owners which could mean 30 million per team. I don't know for sure but maybe this is the way Herb wanted it so the newBucks owners had the keep the team in Milwaukee.

 

Yes, we all know this as an option. What I'm asking is if that's the only one and their locked in at that if there is no arena deal, do you know that for sure? I read that they don't want to be owners on the west coast because of the travel from NY but it would still be in there interest to sell it on their own, or move it then sell it.

[FVBrewerFan]

Without getting too political... I don't think the Bucks owners realized how polarizing the states politics are. I'm sure they didn't help the cause by being with Obama when he was on stage supporting Mary Burke for governor.

 

I hear what you're saying. But I don't think that has had anything to do with it. The problem is to get state senators and reps from Hudson, Superior, Wausau, etc. to vote yes for this. Either Republicans or Democrats. They have nothing to lose in their districts by voting against it.

 

But I do agree that they didn't realize what they were in for. I think they put together the offer to pay half because they thought that would ensure it would all get done very quickly. Nobody outside Milw and WI realizes how short-sighted and petty we are with everything, You have a ton of people with their opinions and fingers in the pie, but nobody has the courage to take the bull by the horns and drive it home.

[Baldkin]

Yes, this is true. The nba buys them back for 550 million if I remember correctly. Then the team gets put up for auction. The profit gets divided between the existing owners which could mean 30 million per team. I don't know for sure but maybe this is the way Herb wanted it so the newBucks owners had the keep the team in Milwaukee.

 

Yes, we all know this as an option. What I'm asking is if that's the only one and their locked in at that if there is no arena deal, do you know that for sure? I read that they don't want to be owners on the west coast because of the travel from NY but it would still be in there interest to sell it on their own, or move it then sell it.

 

The only option to them is if the stadium does not get built, the team is sold back to the NBA. Period.

 

Otherwise, I have no doubt, they would've already sold the team to Seattle for a billion dollars.

[patrickgpe]

Without getting too political... I don't think the Bucks owners realized how polarizing the states politics are. I'm sure they didn't help the cause by being with Obama when he was on stage supporting Mary Burke for governor.

i don't think that this has anything to do with anything. Its not the other side that is opposing this. If all of the Milwaukee democrats voted yes, they would have just about enough votes to pass the state senate.

[nate82]

Zaza to the Mavs for a 2nd round pick.

 

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2015/07/mavs-bucks-discuss-trade-for-zaza-pachulia.html

[GAME05]

Since when is Miles Plumlee good enough to do anything on an NBA court? Since second-round picks are worth about nothing, why not keep the better center, even if it's just for a year? Or are we just way over roster spots?

[greeg35]

Since when is Miles Plumlee good enough to do anything on an NBA court? Since second-round picks are worth about nothing, why not keep the better center, even if it's just for a year? Or are we just way over roster spots?

I agree. We do need spots but there are others that could be moved. Zaza was annoying to me as a starter but i like him as depth. Hopefully more moves to come. Looking forward to seeing Inglis play tomorrow. Hoping he can be a defensive presence at 3 positions.

[superfly]

Zaza was baggage in the wake of the Monroe signing. Ideally I would like to see Henson traded for a cheap controllable big too (he's going to command 10 mil next year on FA), and while we're not strapped, we can't afford that for a limited offensive big like him when we have Giannis, Parker, Monroe (eventually), and maybe MCW to pay.

[patrickgpe]

i understand cutting costs after spending big money on 2 free agents but yesterday they traded 2 veteran leaders on the team for basically nothing. Last years team had really good chemistry and I think Dudley and zaza had a lot to do with this. These trades may not effect the bucks at all with Parker taking over for Dudley and Monroe taking over for Zaza, but I think when you have a really young starting lineup, solid veteran leadership off of the bench is necessary.

 

Looking at the bucks roster, the zaza trade does now but the roster at 15, so maybe this was a consideration in the trade too.