Milwaukee Bucks 2015 - 2016

[BrewBalls]

So if the option was Knight V MCW and Middleton; I would have kept Knight.

And this is where we will simply agree to disagree. Looks like we will see where all three players are at in a few years and determine who was right then.

[Baldkin]

We're a long way from putting Jabari in the same sentence as "max contract"and "All Star." Brandon Knight on the other hand just missed being an All Star last year. Jabai and Giannis will never be the guy you rely on consistently at the end of the shot clock, end of games, etc. The only guys who can do that are the ones who can shoot the 3 ball, or drive and score.

 

Jabari will never be that "give me the ball and I can do anything with it" type of player. Giannis, maybe, but I still don't see that either. Knight can. Flat out, it was a mistake to keep Middleton over Knight. I thought so then, and we're seeing it now. The other thing Knight brought was running the break. They were great at it when he was here.

 

That team had an identity. They were long, played great defense, defended the 3, and were a running team. Now, the parts don't fit and they have no identity. They don't rebound, don't defend the 3, turn it over too much, and can't avoid 15 point quarters that kill them in many games. Now, all you can really say is "they're young." That's their only identity.

 

I think you're very much overselling what Knight brought to the team, and you're really underselling what 20 year old Jabari is doing right now with limited minutes and in his first 10 games back from a knee injury. The Dirk-esque one foot stepback at 12s is pretty amazing.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3JEtwMvp5o

 

Knight isn't some great point guard. His 2014-15 assist-to-turnover ratio of 1.75 ranked 67th out of 84 qualified point guards. 114 of his total turnovers, or 60.3 percent, were chalked up to "bad passes".

 

He had a defensive RPM of -1.85 with the Bucks and Suns last season, ranking 382nd out of 474 total NBA players last season. That's well below average.

 

They are slow on rotations, which leads to poor defensive rebounding and no fast breaks. They've also only had their starting 5 play a total of 45 minutes together on the season.

[Jenkins5]

The thing Brandon Knight brought to the Bucks was he was the leader, floor general, and go to score. Since he has left....we haven't had a true leader the teams was run around nor have we had a go to scorer. We have not have the consistency that Knight brought us. Giannis will have 9 points, then 33, then 16. He is all over the map. Parker shows flashes but still isn't a major factor in our offense. MCW can't shot. Monroe is the most consistent presence we have in our offense right now but he is not a "go to scorer" at any moment of the game. Middleton has been all over this season and has not proven to be that guy either.

 

Answer these two questions:

Who is the leader of this team on the floor?

 

Who is the go to scorer?

 

I bet we get A LOT of different answers. Until we really have certain guys emerge to solidify those rolls, we will not be consistent on the court. Having coached sports year round, people don't give it enough attention. Leadership, having that player to depend on in tough situations, and chemistry really are the key. I have had extremely talented teams who barely made playoffs and lost 1 in done. Then I have had teams not very talented that have made deep runs in the playoffs due to leadership and chemistry.

[BrewBalls]

Answer these two questions:

Who is the leader of this team on the floor?

 

Who is the go to scorer?

 

 

1. The leader is MCW. You might not notice it on the floor but in the locker room his is vocal.

http://behindthebuckpass.com/2015/11/15/michael-carter-williams-the-leader-of-the-milwaukee-bucks/

 

2. Currently it is Middleton but by the end of the season it will be Giannis. He just needs more time to mature and develop a more consistent approach. Remember he is only 20.

 

I will also add my belief that Knight might have been the floor general by default since he has was our PG but Dudley was the true leader of this team and main reason they gelled so well to start last season.

[Baldkin]

The thing Brandon Knight brought to the Bucks was he was the leader, floor general, and go to score. Since he has left....we haven't had a true leader the teams was run around nor have we had a go to scorer. We have not have the consistency that Knight brought us. Giannis will have 9 points, then 33, then 16. He is all over the map. Parker shows flashes but still isn't a major factor in our offense. MCW can't shot. Monroe is the most consistent presence we have in our offense right now but he is not a "go to scorer" at any moment of the game. Middleton has been all over this season and has not proven to be that guy either.

 

Answer these two questions:

Who is the leader of this team on the floor?

 

Who is the go to scorer?

 

I bet we get A LOT of different answers. Until we really have certain guys emerge to solidify those rolls, we will not be consistent on the court. Having coached sports year round, people don't give it enough attention. Leadership, having that player to depend on in tough situations, and chemistry really are the key. I have had extremely talented teams who barely made playoffs and lost 1 in done. Then I have had teams not very talented that have made deep runs in the playoffs due to leadership and chemistry.

 

Knight wasn't the leader on the floor last year. That was Dudley, Zaza, and Mayo.

 

This year, I'd still say it's Mayo, which is why they missed him so much when he was hurt. He's been flying around on rotations and bringing people's energy up since he returned.

 

Why do they need a go to scorer? Why does the team have to play hero-ball to be successful? Are they going to win the title this year? No? Giannis and Jabari will be the go-to scorers next year and in the future.

 

Right now, it's probably Middleton, however. He hit some pretty huge shots last year, in case you forgot.

 

A 20 year old is inconsistent. Not a shocker when the offense doesn't run through him yet and he's a believer in team basketball. Knight had a 4 game stretch where he went 18-27-12-17 this year. All over the map.

[FVBrewerFan]

I hate to keep repeating this, but Giannis and Parker can't be the go-to scorer consistently. Neither can Middleton. Look around the NBA, and the guys who fit that profile can take the ball and do anything. Shoot the 3 , drive and score, drive and pull-up, draw a foul... Middleton needs to be set-up for his shot. Giannis is nowhere close to being comfortable taking big 3 pointers night in, night out. And Parker can't do either yet, and looking at his game I don't think he'll ever be that guy.

 

As for leader, I don't think they had a leader last year, and they don't have one this year. Yes, they have guys (and HAD guys) who had leadership skills. But only "the man" can be the true leader. LeBron, Curry, Harden, Paul, etc. If you don't have THAT guy, you really don't have a leader. You just hope to have good chemistry, and then several guys can step up and lead through voice or action.

 

As for Knight's defense, Kidd only had him for a couple months and he was already getting better. He has the size and skill to be a good defender. Would he have been a good defender in Milwaukee after a year...three years. We don't know. But I do know he just missed being an All-Star last year, and could be one this year- even in the PG loaded West.

 

I would have built around Giannis and Knight. Monroe? Meh. Don't hate it, don't love it. Then if/when Parker shows he's worth a max contract you can deal with it then. Trade him, or Knight...or Monroe. You would still have all those options.

[BrewBalls]

To say Dudley, Mayo and Zaza were not leaders because they were not "the man" is simply nonsense. Also Giannis just started working on his jump shot this past offseason and his long range shooting has drastically improved (45.5% 16<3 and 36.4% 3Pt). For a player with such a sweet stroke, Giannis should continue to develop into an elite all-around scorer. Finally, to validate Knight because he was almost an All-Star last season is laughable. He was the best player on a surprise team last season and was being rewarded for it. Building a championship caliber team does not consist of one star player (Giannis) and a fringe all-star (Knight). You need multiple bonafide all-stars which Giannis and Parker project to become. Knight is who he is and will never be more than a complementary player on a good team similar to Middleton. Albeit, Middleton provides better defense than Knight which is what Kidd needs from his perimeter players.

[rwa12]

I will disagree with the no true leader, but I understand what you are saying. We don't have an Alpha dog at this point. I believe that it will be Giannis, he's just not ready yet. Has to gain confidence in the shot and so on.

 

I think it's too early to pass any judgement on Parker yet. We just don't know who he is. I didn't think anyone from that class was an Alpha, but there are some pretty good players. I could see Jabari being the second best player on a good team.

[FVBrewerFan]

Giannis did not just start working on his jump shot last year. You keep saying Parker will become a bona fide All-Star, and I just don't know where you're getting that. Just because he's a high lottery pick? Yes, he has skills and can be a good player. Can he become a bona fide All-Star? I suppose, but that's more wishful thinking than saying Knight would have been a bona fide All Star with the Bucks.

 

Something else about Knight. Remember, he's young too, and getting better. Up to 44% shooting this year, 41% from 3. Yea, it's early, but there is definitely still more ceiling there. Middleton is at his ceiling.

 

Finally, Knight is more of a combo guard, while MCW is a PG. Knight fits the offense better, because it allowed Giannis to have the ball in his hand more, and could kick it out to Knight for a shot. MCW, on the other hand, is useless off the ball. Nobody is going to kick it to him for a shot. We'll never agree, but I'm convinced it was a big mistake.

[BrewBalls]

Giannis did not just start working on his jump shot last year. You keep saying Parker will become a bona fide All-Star, and I just don't know where you're getting that. Just because he's a high lottery pick? Yes, he has skills and can be a good player. Can he become a bona fide All-Star? I suppose, but that's more wishful thinking than saying Knight would have been a bona fide All Star with the Bucks.

 

Something else about Knight. Remember, he's young too, and getting better. Up to 44% shooting this year, 41% from 3. Yea, it's early, but there is definitely still more ceiling there. Middleton is at his ceiling.

 

Finally, Knight is more of a combo guard, while MCW is a PG. Knight fits the offense better, because it allowed Giannis to have the ball in his hand more, and could kick it out to Knight for a shot. MCW, on the other hand, is useless off the ball. Nobody is going to kick it to him for a shot. We'll never agree, but I'm convinced it was a big mistake.

I agree we will continue to disagree but how can you be convinced it was a mistake less than a year after the trade? This is a young team that will not hit their peak for several years. To already say with conviction the trade was a mistake is like saying Steph Curry will never be a good NBA player based on his small build and lack of athleticism before allowing him time to develop and adjust to the NBA game.

[Baldkin]

Giannis did not just start working on his jump shot last year. You keep saying Parker will become a bona fide All-Star, and I just don't know where you're getting that. Just because he's a high lottery pick? Yes, he has skills and can be a good player. Can he become a bona fide All-Star? I suppose, but that's more wishful thinking than saying Knight would have been a bona fide All Star with the Bucks.

 

Something else about Knight. Remember, he's young too, and getting better. Up to 44% shooting this year, 41% from 3. Yea, it's early, but there is definitely still more ceiling there. Middleton is at his ceiling.

 

Brandon Knight: Dec 11th, 1991

Khris Middleton: Aug 12th, 1991

 

Apparently Brandon Knight will hit his ceiling in 4 months in March?

 

Also, yes, Giannis did just start working on his jump shot last year. They told him to stop shooting jumpers, rebuilt his shot, changed his release point and now he has a higher release and larger arc on his shot.

 

So far this year, he's averaging 18.2 per 36 on 60% TrueShooting%.

 

At 20.

Durant at 20: 23.3 on .577 TS%

LeBron at 20: 23.1 on .554 TS%

 

Giannis is really, really good right now.

[FVBrewerFan]

Brandon Knight: Dec 11th, 1991

Khris Middleton: Aug 12th, 1991

 

Apparently Brandon Knight will hit his ceiling in 4 months in March?

 

No, players don't hit their ceiling according to age and experience. Some hit it much sooner than others. For example, Henson basically hit his ceiling after a year. Teague, Billups, Wesley Matthews.. guys like that it took longer.

 

Middleton will always be what he is. A good shooter, very good defensive player. He is a role player. A very good role player, but a role player. Knight, on the other hand, continues to get better and could become an elite PG very soon. Will he ever be a great defensive player? Maybe not. But if that's the standard they better trade Jabari today.

 

I agree we will continue to disagree but how can you be convinced it was a mistake less than a year after the trade?

 

Just my opinion. Of course I could be wrong, and I hope I am.

 

Giannis is really, really good right now.

 

On that good sir, we agree!

[davego]

I hope the MCW trade works out for the best and Kidd is proven to be correct. My bias is towards Knight and the game he brings to the floor. I think he could have ran the offense Jason wants to run (and Kidd cold make some adjustments, too).

 

Given where the team is at now, I do want to see G and Parker get the first touches on offense. If Monore ends up to focal point of the offensive game, that would be disappointing.

[fondybrewfan]

The early returns based only on the win/loss record after that Knight trade are not very encouraging. Yes other personnel have changed as well but at least in my opinion we overpaid for what Middleton is. He will never be the go to scorer that Knight was. MCW has not progressed much in the approximately 1/2 season he has played under Kidd.

 

Overall the team is disappointing so far this year. Playing absolutely no defense at all. Giannis has continued onto the next step which is nice to see though

[CheezWizHed]

I saw a highlight video of the last couple games and I was really impressed at Monroe's passing ability. There were a lot of post-ups with him passing to a slashing player for a layup.

 

Also, hereis an interesting article about the "Real Plus/Minus" stat for the team at present. Monroe and Middleton are the only "positive" players. Middleton is down a lot from last year. And Giannis is surprisingly low on the defensive side.

[BrewBalls]

I wonder if it would help out our rotations if we started Vasquez along with Mayo and keep MCW coming off the bench while making Parker the main offensive option on our second unit.

 

Starters: Vasquez, Mayo, Middleton, Giannis and Monroe (gives Giannis and Monroe more space to work in the paint with shooters at the 1-3 spots).

2nd Unit: Bayless, MCW, Vaughn, Parker and Henson (Henson can help cover up Parker's defensive flaws while it allows Parker to dominate on offense).

[Baldkin]

I'll be happy if Vasquez doesn't see the court again this season. I want no part of him playing meaningful minutes. He's absolutely terrible on the defensive end and he pounds the air out of the ball on offense.

[BrewBalls]

I'll be happy if Vasquez doesn't see the court again this season. I want no part of him playing meaningful minutes. He's absolutely terrible on the defensive end and he pounds the air out of the ball on offense.

Bayless did a good job starting tonight. I also think MCW and Parker looked much better coming off the bench. Maybe its better to limit Giannis and Parker playing together since their games are similar.

[Baldkin]

I'll be happy if Vasquez doesn't see the court again this season. I want no part of him playing meaningful minutes. He's absolutely terrible on the defensive end and he pounds the air out of the ball on offense.

Bayless did a good job starting tonight. I also think MCW and Parker looked much better coming off the bench. Maybe its better to limit Giannis and Parker playing together since their games are similar.

 

I think the biggest thing is not playing MCW/Giannis/Jabari and Monroe/Henson all together. Having only 1 shooter on the floor really mucks everything up offensively.

[FVBrewerFan]

Bayless did a good job starting tonight. I also think MCW and Parker looked much better coming off the bench. Maybe its better to limit Giannis and Parker playing together since their games are similar.

 

Or maybe they looked better because Denver is a horrible team playing with two banged up guards. Look, I have no problem with tweaking the line-up to see what works, but way too early to call this move a big success.

 

I do agree I would limit the minutes Giannis and Parker play together at this point, if the goal was to win games this year. However, if they really are the future of this team then the more they play together, the better.

 

It's nice to see the defense is back the last couple games, they need to keep that intensity.

[BrewBalls]

Bayless did a good job starting tonight. I also think MCW and Parker looked much better coming off the bench. Maybe its better to limit Giannis and Parker playing together since their games are similar.

 

Or maybe they looked better because Denver is a horrible team playing with two banged up guards. Look, I have no problem with tweaking the line-up to see what works, but way too early to call this move a big success.

 

I do agree I would limit the minutes Giannis and Parker play together at this point, if the goal was to win games this year. However, if they really are the future of this team then the more they play together, the better.

 

It's nice to see the defense is back the last couple games, they need to keep that intensity.

Both Giannis and Jabari need the ball in their hands to continue developing their offensive games. This can be accomplished more so if they are not sharing the floor. Towards the end of this season and next year they will need to learn how to share the ball and work together offensively. they still have plenty of time to figure out how to play alongside each other.

[Jenkins5]

Bayless did a good job starting tonight. I also think MCW and Parker looked much better coming off the bench. Maybe its better to limit Giannis and Parker playing together since their games are similar.

 

Or maybe they looked better because Denver is a horrible team playing with two banged up guards. Look, I have no problem with tweaking the line-up to see what works, but way too early to call this move a big success.

 

I do agree I would limit the minutes Giannis and Parker play together at this point, if the goal was to win games this year. However, if they really are the future of this team then the more they play together, the better.

 

It's nice to see the defense is back the last couple games, they need to keep that intensity.

Both Giannis and Jabari need the ball in their hands to continue developing their offensive games. This can be accomplished more so if they are not sharing the floor. Towards the end of this season and next year they will need to learn how to share the ball and work together offensively. they still have plenty of time to figure out how to play alongside each other.

 

They would be fine together if Jabari finally started to play a stretch 4

http://vorped.com/1-nba/2015-2016/player/1790/jabari-parker/shotchart/

 

He is not stretching the floor what so ever. He is 0-1 only at 3's, 6 for 24 outside of the paint (25%), and then he is scoring almost exclusively inside the paint 28-53 (53%).... Moreover, the only place he makes any baskets is on the leftside from 10 ft in (24-37, 65%) He is 10 for 41 everywhere else on the court..... 48 out 78 shots have been right next to the basket.

 

You take his shooting and his complete lack of rebounding.....that isn't helping the team at all.

 

Giannis's shooting outside of the paint is killing as well.8-25 (32%) for 3 & 7-24 (30%) between outside of paint-inside of three.

 

So we have Parker, Giannis, MCW (4-18 22% at 3, 11-30 for 2's outside of paint 38%) who do not stretch floor at all. Monroe for a center at least has a good jumper teams need to repect, however 168 of 208 shots are still in the paint.

 

Middleton is only starter who creates any space at all on the floor, Bayliss does great job as well.

 

Mayo, Vasquez, Copeland are all struggling bad for 3, all shooting in the 20%'s. Mayo at least is 5 for 7 at 2's outside of paint.

 

Essentially we are the slowest offense in the NBA with no ability to score outside of the paint. It is one thing to be running the court and getting all your points in paint off fast breaks.....Bucks are not though. We get into offense, run it, if we can't get inside, we miss our jumpers with almost most no chance at rebounding the ball

[BrewBalls]

Might not be a terrible option to continue bringing MCW and Parker off the bench while starting Bayless and Mayo. This creates more space for Giannis and Monroe. This also allows Jabari to be the featured offensive option where he can continue to develop and more aggressive defensively since he has He son behind him to help protect the rim.

[FVBrewerFan]

Essentially we are the slowest offense in the NBA with no ability to score outside of the paint. It is one thing to be running the court and getting all your points in paint off fast breaks.....Bucks are not though. We get into offense, run it, if we can't get inside, we miss our jumpers with almost most no chance at rebounding the ball

 

That about sums it up Geezy. They could also get by on offense if they got to the line a ton every night, but that's not happening either. In theory, Giannis, Parker, MCW call all get to the rim- you would think they could/should draw more fouls. Monroe and Henson could draw more fouls in the post. Not the best recipe to depend on for offense, but at least it would be something to hang your hat on. Just amazing how just a couple changes in the course of a year ruined both their offense and defense.

[Baldkin]

Essentially we are the slowest offense in the NBA with no ability to score outside of the paint. It is one thing to be running the court and getting all your points in paint off fast breaks.....Bucks are not though. We get into offense, run it, if we can't get inside, we miss our jumpers with almost most no chance at rebounding the ball

 

That about sums it up Geezy. They could also get by on offense if they got to the line a ton every night, but that's not happening either. In theory, Giannis, Parker, MCW call all get to the rim- you would think they could/should draw more fouls. Monroe and Henson could draw more fouls in the post. Not the best recipe to depend on for offense, but at least it would be something to hang your hat on. Just amazing how just a couple changes in the course of a year ruined both their offense and defense.

 

Their offense was terrible last year as well. Kidd is trying to run a late 90's offense when the defensive rules have completely changed (no more illegal defense).

 

There's a reason the good offensive teams move the ball and constantly use pick and rolls instead of spending 10 seconds trying to throw the ball into the high post to iso a guy.