Milwaukee Bucks 2015 - 2016

[QuevedosTongue]

I am so disappointed with what I've seen from the Bucks so far. The team that was scrappy and annoying on defense last year has disappeared and the offense has no consistency (and has had none) since Brandon Knight left the team. None of the guards can hit a shot. The list goes on. The most disturbing part for me is the utter lack of interest the team seems to have. There has been small spurts of intensity, but not a lot, and the lack of effort shows. They are getting beaten down the floor by opposing big men for easy buckets (or fouls), they are not guarding the ball very well at all, and have been outrebounded in every game, culminating in last night's utter beatdown on the glass.

 

I was not a Kidd believer when they hired him, but the way the team played last year changed my mind. Their play this year is rapidly changing it back.

[tmwiese55]

Defensively Monroe & Parker is not a down grade from Zaza and Dudley. Neither of those guys were really great defenders or great athletes at all. I say there is about the same. Have to see how Jabari and his new built up body helps.

 

Well that's contrary to the assessments by most. Parker has always been considered a poor defender. Monroe considered average at best. While Zaza and Dudley lack the physical tools they were very smart team defenders and keys to why the D was so good last year.

 

That being said, there are many more problems right now. Can't wait until May, Jabari, and Henson are back to get a good feel for the team. Right now there is way too many minutes for the likes of JOB and Bayless. And too much on offense is being left to MCW who can't handle it all.

[rwa12]

Agreed tm, I think they are really missing Mayo and his shooting right now. Giannis is bringing the energy, but there is no one to spread the floor.

 

Defensively, they have to adjust. Monroe is what he is, you have to work around him. Henson's injury hasn't helped. Copeland seems pretty immobile as well. I wasn't opposed to the Vasquez pick up when they made it, but he doesn't really seem to fit with what the team is doing. He looks like he is in constant slow motion.

 

I'm hopeful that it clicks when the whole team is healthy. They showed flashes vs. Washington that give me hope.

[tmwiese55]

Copeland and Vasquez have been brutal on D too. Copeland basically looks immobile and can only do one thing, shoot. I was against the Vasquez trade based on giving up a 1st rounder for a one year contract. But I still thought he'd be a solid rotation player, and he still might turn out that way. But the early returns aren't good on him. Someone like Monroe appears to be engaged defensively, gives effort, and wants to do well, that's half the battle, just needs to be coached up and he should be passable on D eventually.

 

They have some very winnable games coming up now, need to right the ship.

[fondybrewfan]

Middleton needs to start earning his money too. Really outside of Giannis and Monroe everyone else has been pretty disappointing. Giannis seems like the only guy out there that gives a crap. They really need Mayo and Parker out there because guys like O'Bryant, INglis, and Plumlee just shouldn't be out there. I hate that Plumlee is the only true C backup behind Monroe; the guy is pretty bad. Henson is a undersized C but he needs to play there when Monroe is sitting

[FVBrewerFan]

I really haven't agreed with any of the moves they've made since (and including) when they traded Knight for MCW. MCW is horrible. He can't shoot, dribble, or pass. Three pretty important job responsibilities for a PG. I didn't want them to sign Middleton to a big contract. He is a textbook case of a guy propped up by the new NBA advanced stats. His contract isn't horrible, but they would have been much better over paying Brandon Knight. I hated the Vasquez trade, hated the Copeland signing, and really not thrilled about Monroe either. I also wanted Portis over Vaughn in the draft, we'll see how that shakes out.

 

Good news is, any/all of these things can be corrected. It's not like there are any contracts here that are too tough to move. But what really worries me is I don't understand what kind of team they're trying to build here. They should continue to build on defense and length, but I fear they believe hey can copy-cat Golden State like everyone else. Problem is, last time I checked they don't have Steph Curry on the roster. These things always change, and instead of chasing what other teams are doing now, build your own identity and make other teams adjust to YOU.

[rwa12]

I thought they were shooting for positionless ball. Kinda the Marquette model under Buzz. Everyone is 6'5"-6'9", and can rotate. I didn't hate the MCW trade, although I liked Knight. I'm not as sour on him as others. I don't think he has a very aesthetically pleasing game, but he is incredibly young, and has good size. If anyone can "fix" him, it is Kidd. I liked the Monroe deal, even if it didn't jive with the system. There are very few dominant scoring bigs in the game right now, and I've been pretty impressed with him. I don't think it's the lack of desire for defense, I think he's just big and slow. He'll never be a rim protector, but they have Henson to be a weak side blocker for that. Vasquez is not quick, has never been quick, and probably never will be. He's good at what he does, but I'm not sure how that helps this team. I was indifferent to Middleton. He doesn't seem special to me, he's basically our volume shooter. He'll be streaky. I agree on Portis over Vaughn, I'm hoping the long term payout on Vaughn makes up for what would be the short term payoff of Portis.

 

Copeland was a good sign, IMO, he's just playing too many minutes with the lack of Parker and Mayo. When those guys come back, he should be our 9th or 10th man.

 

Plumlee is awful, no argument there, and JOB is pretty bad too. These are guys who should ride pine when the whole team is assembled.

[FVBrewerFan]

I don't mind JOB or Plumley. (Inglis shouldn't be playing yet.) They are cheap, and one of them has upside at least. JOB has a nice little jumper, and is ok at defense and rebounding. Thing is, when either is on the court they better be the 5th best player out there. Due to injuries, there have been too many line-ups of Bayless, Vasquez, Plumley, JOB, and Middleton. (or something similarly crappy.)

 

Like you, I thought this team was built on being able to switch on defense, and that concept is dying a slow death. Also, the Bucks did a really good job of trapping then running the shooter off the line when it got kicked out. This year they're a second or two late on doing that. It really is all the big things and small things not going right so far.

 

In the meantime, they need to let Giannis and Monroe take over on the offensive end. Against Toronto for example, Monroe only had 7 shots. That can't happen. Giannis didn't have too many more than that.

[superfly]

I am so disappointed with what I've seen from the Bucks so far. The team that was scrappy and annoying on defense last year has disappeared and the offense has no consistency (and has had none) since Brandon Knight left the team. None of the guards can hit a shot. The list goes on. The most disturbing part for me is the utter lack of interest the team seems to have. There has been small spurts of intensity, but not a lot, and the lack of effort shows. They are getting beaten down the floor by opposing big men for easy buckets (or fouls), they are not guarding the ball very well at all, and have been outrebounded in every game, culminating in last night's utter beatdown on the glass.

 

I was not a Kidd believer when they hired him, but the way the team played last year changed my mind. Their play this year is rapidly changing it back.

 

Overreact much? It's been like three games. NBA season is a marathon, not a sprint...they'll be playing basketball another 5 months before the playoffs.

[BrewBalls]

The main issue like others have pointed out is we are having to give to many meaningful minutes to the likes of JOB, Plumlee, Copeland, Inglis and to a lesser extent Bayless. Having Bayless, JOB and/ Copeland start creates a favorable mismatch for the opposition. Bayless is a decent player when he is used properly (i.e. coming off the bench), and so are JOB (energy guy), Copeland (floor spacer), Inglis (defensive specialist) and Plumlee (another big body). Being with out three key players (Parker, Mayo and Henson) definitely limits our rotation. To me Mayo and Henson are the two key players needed to get this team back on track. Last season we got off to a fast start primarily due to our bench. Mayo can play 30+ minutes a night until Parker is full strength. MCW, OJ, Midds, Giannis and Moose is a solid starting lineup and Bayless, Vasquez, Parker (limited minutes), Copeland and Henson provides a well rounded second unit. We are only four games into the season and have yet to play a game at full strength. I will begin to panic if they continue to struggle 5-10 games after getting Henson, Mayo and Parker back in the rotation.

[FVBrewerFan]

If/when everyone is healthy, Inglis, Ennis, Copeland, Plumlee, and Vaughn shouldn't be in the rotation. They can each get some minutes every once in a while, but none of those guys should get minutes every night. Copeland is just horrible on defense, Plumlee you can use here and there when another big body is needed, and the other three just aren't ready. Vasquez shot is broke right now, so his minutes should be limited too until he gets that worked out. A Vasquez who can't shoot is basically the basketball equivalent of Yuni.

[CheezWizHed]

I've only seen the two game so far (first and Tuesday) and I have to say that I'm very impressed by Giannis this year. He really looks like a man on a mission. Someone questioned the team's intensity and Giannis is bringing that in spades. The rest of the team can be a little flat, however.

 

For the defense, its been quite a wake-up call at the beginning of the season, but I think that is to be expected with the shake-up of the team and lack of the starters getting practice time in the pre-season. I'll give them a month or so to find their identity on defense before I make any judgments.

 

My take on the player turn-over:

 

Monroe: My favorite move. He isn't the most dominant C in the league, but he leads the very good ones. Looks smooth and scores pretty easily. Defense isn't awesome or terrible. And at 25, is a great FA add, if for no other reason than make people notice Milwaukee again.

 

Knight for MCW + Middleton Extension: In reality, these two are very related items. The Bucks were only going to resign one of the two players (Knight/Middleton) and they signed identical contracts. So, its MCW+Middleton vs. Knight. If MCW develops, its a no-brainer. If he stagnates, we might have been better off with Knight. Middleton is a nice complementary player and he vs. Knight straight up is pretty much a wash; depending on what you value.

 

1st Round for Vasquez: Right now, its a utter and complete no think you move. And the more I think of it, I wonder if it was due to the trading of Knight and risk of MCW at PG. I suppose if we resigned Knight (and lost Middleton), we would have traded the 1st round pick for a Middleton equivalent... But still, I wasn't a fan of this trade at the time, nor have I been impressed by what I've seen so far either.

[BrewBalls]

I've only seen the two game so far (first and Tuesday) and I have to say that I'm very impressed by Giannis this year. He really looks like a man on a mission. Someone questioned the team's intensity and Giannis is bringing that in spades. The rest of the team can be a little flat, however.

 

For the defense, its been quite a wake-up call at the beginning of the season, but I think that is to be expected with the shake-up of the team and lack of the starters getting practice time in the pre-season. I'll give them a month or so to find their identity on defense before I make any judgments.

 

My take on the player turn-over:

 

Monroe: My favorite move. He isn't the most dominant C in the league, but he leads the very good ones. Looks smooth and scores pretty easily. Defense isn't awesome or terrible. And at 25, is a great FA add, if for no other reason than make people notice Milwaukee again.

 

Knight for MCW + Middleton Extension: In reality, these two are very related items. The Bucks were only going to resign one of the two players (Knight/Middleton) and they signed identical contracts. So, its MCW+Middleton vs. Knight. If MCW develops, its a no-brainer. If he stagnates, we might have been better off with Knight. Middleton is a nice complementary player and he vs. Knight straight up is pretty much a wash; depending on what you value.

 

1st Round for Vasquez: Right now, its a utter and complete no think you move. And the more I think of it, I wonder if it was due to the trading of Knight and risk of MCW at PG. I suppose if we resigned Knight (and lost Middleton), we would have traded the 1st round pick for a Middleton equivalent... But still, I wasn't a fan of this trade at the time, nor have I been impressed by what I've seen so far either.

This is a fair comparison in regards to the Knight trade since the front office had to have extending Middleton on their mind when they made the trade. Ennis could be a sleeper addition similar to Middleton in the Jennings deal. i'm not saying he will develop into an all-star but he could become a serviceable NBA caliber PG in time. Looking down the road to when MCW is a RFA if he has not panned out by then Jeff Teague will be an UFA and could be a good fit in a starting line up consisting of Giannis, Parker, Middleton and Monroe (if he opts in or resigns).

[rwa12]

As much as people seem to dislike him, I thought Ennis was the key to the Knight trade. He is super young, and should have stayed in school...so he is way early in the learning curve. If Kidd can form him, he could be a very strong PG. I have hopes, more for him than MCW.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Good to see Jabari back on the floor last night, even if it was for limited minutes and 2 points.

 

Copeland.......wow. STOP SHOOTING. 1 for 7 from three in 10 minutes. Brick city.

 

I don't know if Giannis will see fewer looks when Parker is back in full swing, but ..... is he truly a 20/8 guy at this point, because if so.....that would be awesome. His offensive game looks truly evolved at this point.

 

Still lots of questions (obviously) especially on D, but at least they got a couple W's under the belt now.

[BrewBalls]

I was discussing the Bucks with a friend who brought up Jeff Teague as a possible trade candidate who would fit in extremely well with our current roster. Schroder is puching for the starting spot and Teague could become available for the right return. My friend suggested Middleton straight up for Teague since we have Mayo who could start at SG but I initially balked at the notion. Would a package of Mayo, Bayless and our 2016 first rd pick be enough to get it done? I hate giving up a draft pick but feel Teague would flourish with our other young starters.

 

Teague, Middleton, Giannis, Parker and Monroe would be a dominant starting line up and we would still have MCW, Vasquez, Vaughn, Inglis and Henson coming off the bench.

[CheezWizHed]

Copeland.......wow. STOP SHOOTING. 1 for 7 from three in 10 minutes. Brick city.

 

Yeah, no kidding! At least bend your knees when you shoot. Flat-footed, shooting with arms only and short or off on every shot except the one he made.

 

Before complimenting Copeland's defense, Kidd said, "It was pretty impressive to get seven threes off in ten minutes. He's going to take 'em." Copeland was one-for-seven from the three point line on Wednesday night.

Link

 

My friend suggested Middleton straight up for Teague since we have Mayo who could start at SG but I initially balked at the notion.

 

My first thought is that it would take more than Middleton. Teague has been a top 10 PG in efficiency. But I haven't followed him much so maybe there is more to it than his stats? It would have to be, I think.

[FVBrewerFan]

Hawks aren't trading Teague. They had their chance to let him go, and re-signed him. They're playing him together a lot with Schroeder and that's working for them.

 

Ennis? Anything is possible but I just don't see it. Copeland always shoots like that. Like a lot of shooters, he streaky. Like I said earlier, really no reason for him to be in the rotation once Jabari is back full time, Henson is back, etc.

 

They barely pulled off wins against two horrible teams, but that's ok for now. They just can't get off to a Brewer-esque type of start, and wait for everyone to get back healthy. Lots of things not to like so far, but it's early.

 

By the way, I guess I didn't know what to expect from Jabari but wow he really struggled. Now my expectations are in check at least, I look at it as whatever you get out of him this season is a bonus.

[BrewBalls]

We could always ride MCW's rookie contract out and look at signing Teague then since he will also be a free agent. My guess is he could be had for 4yrs/$80-90M which would be doable even with Giannis getting the max.

[FVBrewerFan]

They could sign Conley and Whiteside next year- those are the guys on my wish list. But....that won't happen either.

[rwa12]

I love Conley. Not sold on Whiteside. Tons of raw talent, but he seems like the type that will sign a huge contract and disappear. No justification for this, just not a fan of his.

[BrewBalls]

Why would we look to sign Whiteside when we just extended a similar player in Henson? Here are both players PER 36 stats from last season.

 

Whiteside: 18.7 pts/13.1 reb/0.2 ast/0.9 stl/ 4.2 blk

Henson: 13.8 pts/9.1 reb/1.7 ast/0.8 stl/ 4.0 blk

 

I know Whiteside is a better offensive player and rebounder but considering we already have Monroe, rim protection is the main reason to sign a player like Whiteside. This would be a redundant move with Henson already under contract for the next 4 years.

[tmwiese55]

Right we just committed over 30 mil per year to the C position, not needed. If we didn't have Monroe a Whiteside (or well basically Larry Sanders) type is exactly what I would've preferred.

 

Conley and Gasol almost assuredly made an agreement that Conley would stay or else Gasol wouldn't have stayed.

 

Atlanta isn't likely to trade Teague any time soon, would probably need to wait until he's a FA as suggested, or at least at the deadline before. There's a good shot Horford leaves this year and with the cap rise they won't be up against it any time soon so no reason to rush a trade. Try playing both together and see what happens.

 

Check out Boston's roster. That might be where a PG option comes from. They have several already and have a ton of draft picks coming up where they'll need to free roster spots.

[Baldkin]

Gasol is from Memphis. He was never going anywhere no matter what, regardless of what Conley wants to do.

 

I don't think the Bucks don't need to pay a PG. They probably can't afford to. They need a cheap defense oriented guard who can initiate the offense. Maybe MCW gets there, right now he is light years better than anything else they have on the defensive end, and 90% of what they have on the offensive end.

 

I don't understand why people don't like Middleton. He was really, really, really good last year after they traded Knight. He might be shouldering too much of the burden early on, but his shot will come around (and he's not taking bad shots, unlike Vasquez)... hopefully his usage goes down with Jabari coming back and as Monroe works his way into the offense more (he's also a huge part of why Monroe signed here).

[tmwiese55]

I wouldn't say he's from Memphis, he's just been there most since HS. I don't think he would've stayed if Memphis was planning on trading Randolph, letting Conley walk and starting a rebuild. I think it's been reported in the Memphis circles that they talked and agreed to both stay.

 

I agree, Middleton is very good and I'm happy with him in spite of the slow start. And I agree I don't see them forking out 20+ mil to a FA but rather will focus on drafting or grabbing some young guy who's buried. Like a Reggie Jackson or Eric Bledsoe type of thing. Which is why the Teague rumblings start as they have a young guy pushing up.