Milwaukee Bucks 2014 - 2015 (part 2)

[BrewBalls]

i was on board with the trade on day 1, but probably not for the same reason I am on board now. I felt he would be a great asset next season, but its pretty obvious that he is a large part of the reason why the bucks are back in this series. He still needs to work on his jumpshot, but the intangibles he brings isn't coachable.

 

What do you guys think about bringing in Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, probably the best defender in the draft after WCS.

If you look at Henson's jumpshoot it looks forced and not fluid. This is something you cannot teach and normally limits there players from significantly improving over time. He has shown little improvement offensively in the three years he's been in the league and likely will never have a consistent mid-range game. What this team so deperately lacks is quality shooters who can stretch the defense and create lanes for our best players (Giannis, Parker and MCW). We cannot rely solely on our defense to get us to the next level. Yes it is working against a team who's offense is average at best but if you match us up against an elite team like Golden State, even with solid defense, we would not stand a chance offensively to compete. Improving overall team shooting and adding more consistent offensive options is what will get the Bucks to the next level of being perennial top 10 team in the league. If you want someone who can do both, I suggested Justin Anderson who projects to be a solid 3 and D guy. This is the type of player the Bucks should be targeting in this years draft.

[tmwiese55]

Great game by MCW but it's the only good game he's played in the series and really might have blown game 3 just as much as he won this one. Regardless, we all like his potential.

 

Not sure if we need Hollis-Jefferson with the Jabari,Giannis, Middleton covering those three wing type spots already. I think the backup there needs to be a shooter, not a defender (I guess like Mayo in a way). Shooting is target 1 since we can survive another year with Zaza/Henson/Ersan/Plumley at bigs. Target 2 is a good young big in the Sanders mold but a little thicker probably, screen/roll/catch/dunk/protect rim. I like the direction FV is saying, stay the course, do your best in this draft, maybe trade up if you see an opportunity you like, then make your decisions after another year. And yes Middleton will get resigned, huge reason for the Knight trade is the decision to sign Middleton instead of Knight.

[FVBrewerFan]

i was on board with the trade on day 1, but probably not for the same reason I am on board now. I felt he would be a great asset next season, but its pretty obvious that he is a large part of the reason why the bucks are back in this series. He still needs to work on his jumpshot, but the intangibles he brings isn't coachable.

 

What do you guys think about bringing in Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, probably the best defender in the draft after WCS.

If you look at Henson's jumpshoot it looks forced and not fluid. This is something you cannot teach and normally limits there players from significantly improving over time. He has shown little improvement offensively in the three years he's been in the league and likely will never have a consistent mid-range game. What this team so deperately lacks is quality shooters who can stretch the defense and create lanes for our best players (Giannis, Parker and MCW). We cannot rely solely on our defense to get us to the next level. Yes it is working against a team who's offense is average at best but if you match us up against an elite team like Golden State, even with solid defense, we would not stand a chance offensively to compete. Improving overall team shooting and adding more consistent offensive options is what will get the Bucks to the next level of being perennial top 10 team in the league. If you want someone who can do both, I suggested Justin Anderson who projects to be a solid 3 and D guy. This is the type of player the Bucks should be targeting in this years draft.

 

Sorry, I just don't agree with any of this. Not every player needs to have a good jump shot. Henson provides a ton of value on defense, and at times on the boards. (That's where he needs more consistency.) Whatever he does on offense is a bonus. Giannis, Parker, and MCW are the guys that need to develop their jump shots. If those guys are going to be the big guns for the next 10 years, they need to be able to shoot the ball better. They don't need that from Henson. If I remember right, Mutumbo and Rodman didn't have any jump shot either, but I'm pretty sure they were very important pieces on great teams.

[tmwiese55]

I agree with Brew in that yes he's never going to have a jump shot. I just wish he was thicker and had more athleticism. I totally agree with FV that you don't need him to have the offensive game. Putbacks, catch/dunk in the Tyson Chandler mold is all you need if you play great D, like he does. He just can't be on the floor at the same time as another non-shooting big like Zaza or Sanders before. I'd rather just keep Henson too while you try to draft/develop someone better. He's ugly around the hoop but he finds a way to finish a decent amount.

[BrewBalls]

i was on board with the trade on day 1, but probably not for the same reason I am on board now. I felt he would be a great asset next season, but its pretty obvious that he is a large part of the reason why the bucks are back in this series. He still needs to work on his jumpshot, but the intangibles he brings isn't coachable.

 

What do you guys think about bringing in Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, probably the best defender in the draft after WCS.

If you look at Henson's jumpshoot it looks forced and not fluid. This is something you cannot teach and normally limits there players from significantly improving over time. He has shown little improvement offensively in the three years he's been in the league and likely will never have a consistent mid-range game. What this team so deperately lacks is quality shooters who can stretch the defense and create lanes for our best players (Giannis, Parker and MCW). We cannot rely solely on our defense to get us to the next level. Yes it is working against a team who's offense is average at best but if you match us up against an elite team like Golden State, even with solid defense, we would not stand a chance offensively to compete. Improving overall team shooting and adding more consistent offensive options is what will get the Bucks to the next level of being perennial top 10 team in the league. If you want someone who can do both, I suggested Justin Anderson who projects to be a solid 3 and D guy. This is the type of player the Bucks should be targeting in this years draft.

 

Sorry, I just don't agree with any of this. Not every player needs to have a good jump shot. Henson provides a ton of value on defense, and at times on the boards. (That's where he needs more consistency.) Whatever he does on offense is a bonus. Giannis, Parker, and MCW are the guys that need to develop their jump shots. If those guys are going to be the big guns for the next 10 years, they need to be able to shoot the ball better. They don't need that from Henson. If I remember right, Mutumbo and Rodman didn't have any jump shot either, but I'm pretty sure they were very important pieces on great teams.

The difference between Henson and the Mutumbo, Rodman and Ben Wallaces of the league is John lacks the aggressiveness and high motoer those players had. The reason he struggles rebounding is his thin frame allows stronger players to puch him around but the bigger issue is his laid back mentality. Yes he will have solid games where he flashes what his true potential could be but his lack of work ethic does not allow him to ever sustain this production. My biggest fear is he will never have the personal drive to continueously work at getting better and remain inconsistent. IMO Henson has all of the tools and ability to be a top 10 big in the league but never will reach his full potential due to his lack of desire or comepitiveness. This is what seperates those who are simply naturally gifted like a Marvin Williams and the Dennis Rodman's of the world.

[FVBrewerFan]

Agreed, he will never be a top 10 big. But why does he need to be? He's cheap, and offers a ton of value on the court for the player he is today. You may know some inside info on his work ethic, I don't know about any of that. I think as fans sometimes we focus on the negatives rather than what a player CAN do. This team doesn't need Henson to be a superstar, he will always be a guy that's a role player, and every team in every sport needs those guys. Like tmw said, the key is you just can't have him in the game at the same time as another offensively challenged player. Trade him? Sure, if you get a great deal. I don't think trading him to move up in the draft is enough.

[BrewBalls]

Agreed, he will never be a top 10 big. But why does he need to be? He's cheap, and offers a ton of value on the court for the player he is today. You may know some inside info on his work ethic, I don't know about any of that. I think as fans sometimes we focus on the negatives rather than what a player CAN do. This team doesn't need Henson to be a superstar, he will always be a guy that's a role player, and every team in every sport needs those guys. Like tmw said, the key is you just can't have him in the game at the same time as another offensively challenged player. Trade him? Sure, if you get a great deal. I don't think trading him to move up in the draft is enough.

The problem is players like Giannis, MCW and Parker may never become solid outside shooters, if this is the case then we need to find role players who can to help space the florr and free up the paint for these three to drive. I'm not saying Henson isnt' a good player of that he will never be a solid contributor off the bench. what I'm saying is i think his trade value will never be higher than it currently is and the Bucks should cash in by using him to trade up and get a young center who can possibly become their starting center in the future. Also, Henson is cheap for one more season, then he will be a RFA and I'm sure there will be some team willing to pay for his potential which will raise his salary to $8-10M per especially with the projected increase in the salary cap. I like Henson as our back up center but I do not see him being a Buck after next season so I would prefer if we continue to build our young roster by using him to move u in the draft at get another difference maker in the middle.

[superfly]

I will have to eat my words I guess, but I really like what OJ Mayo has brought to the team. I thought he was toast last year...but the way he got right up in Butler's face last night was just what we need. Jimmy is really giving Giannis and others fits out there, but when Mayo comes in that all changes. I really hope Mayo can continue to embrace his role & mentor these kids to become more tough mentally.

 

If we get a good offer for Henson I would take it, but I don't see a NEED to move him...he's good bench depth with more upside if he can ever put it all together. He's still young and it takes some people longer to physically and mentally mature than others...there's still time.

[BrewBalls]

I will have to eat my words I guess, but I really like what OJ Mayo has brought to the team. I thought he was toast last year...but the way he got right up in Butler's face last night was just what we need. Jimmy is really giving Giannis and others fits out there, but when Mayo comes in that all changes. I really hope Mayo can continue to embrace his role & mentor these kids to become more tough mentally.

 

If we get a good offer for Henson I would take it, but I don't see a NEED to move him...he's good bench depth with more upside if he can ever put it all together. He's still young and it takes some people longer to physically and mentally mature than others...there's still time.

This season the Bucks are 27-17 when OJ scores in double digits and 15-4 when he scores 15 or more points. The need for a legit scoring threat coming off the bench is huge in this league. And Mayo is still fairly young at 27 and could be resigned after next season depending on his asking price.

[ELCABALLO45]

I have no idea if this would be even possible but if it could happen I would do everything I could to trade for DeMarcus Cousins. Obviously, without trading MCW-Giannis-Parker or Middleton in that trade. 1st round pick, Ennis, Henson I don't care. If its even possible I would do it in a heartbeat.

 

Cousins hates it in Sacramento and doesn't get along with Karl either. He does have a bit of a history of being a pain in the neck to handle but if he is ever gonna be coach able it's gonna be by Jason Kidd. You re-sign Middleton and role out this line up next year...

 

PG - Michael Carter-Williams

SG - Khris Middleton

F - Giannis Antetokounmpo

F - Jabari Parker

C - DeMarcus Cousins

 

All of a sudden you have a big 3 in Parker-Antetokoumpo-Cousins with a great 4th scorer in Middleton. And you have a team that would be a top 5ish defensive team in the league. That group would be a contender in the East for the next 5-8 years.

 

Okay now that I am done daydreaming and being unrealistic...

[BrewBalls]

I have no idea if this would be even possible but if it could happen I would do everything I could to trade for DeMarcus Cousins. Obviously, without trading MCW-Giannis-Parker or Middleton in that trade. 1st round pick, Ennis, Henson I don't care. If its even possible I would do it in a heartbeat.

 

Cousins hates it in Sacramento and doesn't get along with Karl either. He does have a bit of a history of being a pain in the neck to handle but if he is ever gonna be coach able it's gonna be by Jason Kidd. You re-sign Middleton and role out this line up next year...

 

PG - Michael Carter-Williams

SG - Khris Middleton

F - Giannis Antetokounmpo

F - Jabari Parker

C - DeMarcus Cousins

 

All of a sudden you have a big 3 in Parker-Antetokoumpo-Cousins with a great 4th scorer in Middleton. And you have a team that would be a top 5ish defensive team in the league. That group would be a contender in the East for the next 5-8 years.

 

Okay now that I am done daydreaming and being unrealistic...

Any trade discussions involving Cousins would have to start with either Giannis or Parker. No team, even the Kings would trade him for anything less than another top player.

[tmwiese55]

If Cousins hits the market we just won't have the most to offer unless you include Parker or Giannis. Simmons actually did a top 3 or 5 list of teams though to get him and I believe he had us 3rd, but he had us giving them Giannis. I think he had Orlando 1, Knicks 2. Personally I'd put Boston before MKE because they're loaded in draft picks to trade, I think he was trying not be a homer though. I suppose Cousins just might not want to play in Boston though.

 

Bottom line, I don't see anyway we have enough to trade for him without Giannis or Jabari involved. I agree with Brewballs. Unless somehow they manage to do it under the radar so there is no bidding war. Regardless, all of our #1 picks we could offer would be 16 or lower, don't see anyway.

[FVBrewerFan]

Cousins hates it in Sacramento and doesn't get along with Karl anyone either.

 

After the Sanders debacle, Cousins will never set foot in the Bucks locker room.

[BrewBalls]

If the Mavs are serious about signing DeAndre Jordan then Hammonds should be calling Chandler to get him to sign with the Bucks. He would fit perfectly in the paint with our young core and provide them with some much needed rebounding. I bet he could be had on a 2yrs/$20M deal with a team option. Then look for a young center in the draft who can be mentored by Chandler and Zaza next season before getting major minutes once Zaza is gone. Upshaw and Christmas are possibilities in the second round otherwise I would look to trade up for Kaminsky or Turner.

[fondybrewfan]

I see Bobby Portis being mocked to the Bucks a lot. He is a good rebounder and has an improving offensive game. He would be a nice complement to Henson but admittedly I don't know how good his defense is.

 

If I were the Bucks I might be inclined to trade up in the draft if there is someone they really love that they think is the missing piece

[FVBrewerFan]

If the Mavs are serious about signing DeAndre Jordan then Hammonds should be calling Chandler to get him to sign with the Bucks. He would fit perfectly in the paint with our young core and provide them with some much needed rebounding. I bet he could be had on a 2yrs/$20M deal with a team option. Then look for a young center in the draft who can be mentored by Chandler and Zaza next season before getting major minutes once Zaza is gone. Upshaw and Christmas are possibilities in the second round otherwise I would look to trade up for Kaminsky or Turner.

 

Chandler is the type of guy you want if you're going for the title next year. Nice fit for someone like Houston, GS, etc. He would make the Bucks better NEXT year. I just don't see value in spending any money on guys who won't be a piece of the team in 3-4 years when they can be a legit contender. Zaza and the coaching staff can provide plenty of guidance to a young big, they don't need another old Center for $10MM a year.

[FVBrewerFan]

Tonight look for Butler to be real aggressive. Taking it right at the Bucks, scoring....drawing fouls. They need a way to contain Gasol also, actually surprised they haven't used Plumley for a few minutes here and there on him.

[BrewBalls]

Tonight look for Butler to be real aggressive. Taking it right at the Bucks, scoring....drawing fouls. They need a way to contain Gasol also, actually surprised they haven't used Plumley for a few minutes here and there on him.

No need to since Henson has handled him all series. I do agree that Butler will come out more agressive but it could backfire if he begins pressing. We have plenty of guys to guard him (Giannis, middleton, MCW and Mayo) although Mayo seems to do the best at getting into his head which forces him to make mental mistakes. This should be a great game tonight.

[nate82]

What about trading for Hibbert?

[craigharmann]

Thought I'd kill some time and watch the Bucks with the draft in the background. I couldn't make it 5 minutes. There's a reason I gave up on the Bucks long ago and became a Spurs fan.

[homer]

Thought I'd kill some time and watch the Bucks with the draft in the background. I couldn't make it 5 minutes. There's a reason I gave up on the Bucks long ago and became a Spurs fan.

 

Because you like front runners?

[superfly]

That wasn't pretty, I think our boys were spent.

 

We shouldn't let tonight overshadow the incredible progress we saw this team make in 2014-2015. I am really excited to see what next season brings, and to see who we get in the Draft. Also will be very interesting to see if we dip into free agency, or sit until next offseason before plunging.

[craigharmann]

Thought I'd kill some time and watch the Bucks with the draft in the background. I couldn't make it 5 minutes. There's a reason I gave up on the Bucks long ago and became a Spurs fan.

 

Because you like front runners?

 

The Spurs have been my team since the mid 90's. Before they became front runners. Thank you.

[GAME05]

Here are a couple of videos of Dunleavy outright pushing a player, which makes me slightly less confused to why Giannis did that to Dunleavy.

 

I'm going to forget about this game pretty quickly. This is still a team that made the playoffs without Parker when nobody picked them to get there even with him. And it's a team that got the Bulls to 6 games when deep down we were all probably just hoping they'd be able to take one.

[Brewer Fever]

Thought I'd kill some time and watch the Bucks with the draft in the background. I couldn't make it 5 minutes. There's a reason I gave up on the Bucks long ago and became a Spurs fan.

 

Because you like front runners?

 

The Spurs have been my team since the mid 90's. Before they became front runners. Thank you.

 

Eh, that's precisely when they became front runners.