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Open for business (part 2)

reillymcshane
DuWayne Steurer Wisconsin Timber Rattlers

DuWayne Steurer

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Segura has been "bad" for 2-ish years now. His defense is good, but it's not good enough to overcome his bad offense. His WAR last year was less than 1.0, and it's en route to being that (or around 1.0-ish) again this year. Granted that defensive metrics are somewhat open to interpretation.
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KCBrewerfan34 First Round Pick

KCBrewerfan34

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IMO Segura doesn't have great value, his OBP is rotten and teams value the position but they more often that not want those guys to work counts, I think we will be dissappointed what we get for Segura unless he's packaged with Gomez or LuCroy.
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pacopete4 Nashville Sounds

pacopete4

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IMO Segura doesn't have great value, his OBP is rotten and teams value the position but they more often that not want those guys to work counts, I think we will be dissappointed what we get for Segura unless he's packaged with Gomez or LuCroy.

 

 

All it takes is for one or two GMs to value him high and it is very possible there are a couple. While I agree with how you value him, it doesn't mean all people do.

"This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.
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adambr2 All-Star

adambr2

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Segura is 15th out of 23 qualified SS in baseball in both WAR and OPS. The most generous definition for him is a league average SS, and defining him as a slightly below average league SS is probably more accurate.

 

I would not expect Segura on his own to return a top 50 prospect. Maybe a top 100.

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MrTPlush Wisconsin Timber Rattlers

MrTPlush

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IMO Segura doesn't have great value, his OBP is rotten and teams value the position but they more often that not want those guys to work counts, I think we will be dissappointed what we get for Segura unless he's packaged with Gomez or LuCroy.

 

 

All it takes is for one or two GMs to value him high and it is very possible there are a couple. While I agree with how you value him, it doesn't mean all people do.

 

That is true and I wouldn't be surprised to see one of these SS desperate teams make a stupid mistake, but I haven't seen much positive remarks for Segura in awhile. People are starting to come to the conclusion that this is really what Segura is and *potential* doesn't really exsist past what he currently does.

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torts Carolina Mudcats

torts

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Now that the pirates have no 3B, trade rami to them to end his career in the town it began

Posted: July 10, 2014, 12:30 AM

PrinceFielderx1 Said:

If the Brewers don't win the division I should be banned. However, they will.

 

Last visited: September 03, 2014, 7:10 PM

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Boomer5 First Round Pick

Boomer5

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ARam is OPSing 970 the last 28 days. He plays a premium position. The fact that he retires after this year is actually a plus. Rental players arent expected to be retained beyond that year typically anyhow.

 

If they Pirates want him, I expect a nice haul.

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FVBrewerFan Carolina Mudcats

FVBrewerFan

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ARam is OPSing 970 the last 28 days. He plays a premium position. The fact that he retires after this year is actually a plus. Rental players arent expected to be retained beyond that year typically anyhow.

 

If they Pirates want him, I expect a nice haul.

 

Then I think you'll be disappointed. Can ARam be traded? Probably. But don't expect a nice haul for him.

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Thurston Fluff ACL Brewers

Thurston Fluff

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I don't think you get much in return for 2 months of any player who isn't elite so no, I am not expecting much. Just that his history shows this hot streak is a more reliable indicator of finishing strong than it would for a lot of players. I have little doubt most teams know his history and might have been waiting to see if he was just off to his usual cold start or was really done. This is probably enough to convince one of them to give up someone who might actually make it to the majors someday. If that happened I would be thrilled.
There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.
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Thurston Fluff ACL Brewers

Thurston Fluff

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Nothing. Most player in Ramirez situation don't end up netting much in return. I read the discussion to be not so much about how much we could get for that kind of player but if he was playing himself out of getting us even that much. At least that was how I was reading the comments. I doubt anybody ever thought he was going to bring us a blue chip prospect. The fear was he wouldn't bring us anything. This hot streak that coincides with his usual pattern should get us back to what we should have been able to expect out of him to start with.
There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.
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torts Carolina Mudcats

torts

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Many July trades is for a two month rental. What makes ARam any different?

 

The fact hes retiring makes it definitive

Posted: July 10, 2014, 12:30 AM

PrinceFielderx1 Said:

If the Brewers don't win the division I should be banned. However, they will.

 

Last visited: September 03, 2014, 7:10 PM

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jerichoholicninja Carolina Mudcats

jerichoholicninja

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How is that any different than trading a guy who's going to be a free agent? Which he also is going to be.

 

Because there's a chance you could sign the free agent.

 

I guess I don't see him saying he's going to retire as a guarantee he's not going to play next year. Going back to Pittsburgh and playing for a winning team might make him want to play another year.

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dlk9s Carolina Mudcats

dlk9s

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As Wisconsin sports fans know, a player saying he's retiring is not a guarantee he's not going to play next year, but...

 

...it's a guarantee he's not going to play next year.

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BrewCrew8682 Prep Ball

BrewCrew8682

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As Wisconsin sports fans know, a player saying he's retiring is not a guarantee he's not going to play next year, but...

 

...it's a guarantee he's not going to play next year.

 

All he needs is to get that "itch" and he'll be back just in time for spring training, and not a moment sooner!

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MrTPlush Wisconsin Timber Rattlers

MrTPlush

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How is that any different than trading a guy who's going to be a free agent? Which he also is going to be.

 

Because there's a chance you could sign the free agent.

 

You don't give more thinking you can resign him after the season....that would be bad business. You have to assume at the end of the season they will be gone. Just like you can't trade a guy and assume you can get him back after the season .

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torts Carolina Mudcats

torts

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How is that any different than trading a guy who's going to be a free agent? Which he also is going to be.

 

Because there's a chance you could sign the free agent.

 

I guess I don't see him saying he's going to retire as a guarantee he's not going to play next year. Going back to Pittsburgh and playing for a winning team might make him want to play another year.

 

how often do players go back on their retirement commitments? 1 out of 1000? maybe? I honestly can only think of one player in the last couple decade, that being Clemens. When a player says they're going to retire, its pretty much a sure thing. Those who "unretire" tend to be premadonna's, and we can all agree that is not Ramirez.

Posted: July 10, 2014, 12:30 AM

PrinceFielderx1 Said:

If the Brewers don't win the division I should be banned. However, they will.

 

Last visited: September 03, 2014, 7:10 PM

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monty57 ACL Brewers

monty57

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Many July trades is for a two month rental. What makes ARam any different?

 

Ramirez is making a lot of money relative to his production. His recent hot streak has raised his season numbers up to .248/.297/.437/.734 and he's making $14M this year. Since this deal was drafted by Melvin, it of course includes deferred money, paying him $3M for the next two years. Therefore, whoever trades for him will owe him around $13MM for a couple of months... that's superstar money.

 

Ramirez getting hot may have allowed for the Brewers to trade him, but they will not get much. If they ate the whole contract, they might be able to get a guy with potential to be a major league player, but of course they will not eat the entire contract, so they'll get a B-league prospect and salary relief. That's better than a month or so ago when they couldn't even get that.

"The most successful (people) know that performance over the long haul is what counts. If you can seize the day, great. But never forget that there are days yet to come."

 

~Bill Walsh

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