Pete Rose - Caught in a Lie... Again

[pacopete4]

Long-Lost Notebook Shows Pete Rose Bet On Baseball As A Player

http://deadspin.com/long-lost-notebook-shows-pete-rose-bet-on-baseball-as-a-1713114568?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

 

 

It felt as thought Mr. Rose was making some traction in getting people behind him in his pursuit to the HOF but this may just derail that. Even with the new commish, he is caught lying again and I just don't see him allowing him back in baseball. As much as I just don't care about his betting anymore, and feel he should be in the HOF, I just can't see him overcoming this one. I wonder what this does for his reunion in Cincy during the all-star game this year? Either way, I thought I'd share.

[FVBrewerFan]

Of course he lies. He shouldn't be in the HOF- period. Betting on baseball is forbidden, he knew it and did it anyhow- including betting on his own team. I really don't even care if he lied about it or not, the offense if gambling.

[Dragonbait]

I've always said it. It's a lifetime ban. He'll be in, after he's dead.

[bjkrautk]

Thank God Bud didn't open the doors to Pete on the way out of the Commissioner's office.

[crossface21]

A lot of his supporters say what he did off the field shouldn't matter for the HOF, it should be what he did on the field that counts. They also say he never bet on his own team. Or that he never did it while he was a player. So I'm real interested in what the supporters will now come up with to say he still deserves to be in the HOF.

 

IMO, we live in a very forgiving society. Had he come out and said back in 1989 he did it and apologized, took his punishment, I bet he'd be on the cusp of having all the support he needed to get in (I don't think Selig was ever going to let him in). The fact that he continually lied about it and continues to get caught in more lies only shows that he has no remorse for what he did. Don't let him in.

[1992casey]

The lifetime ban and Hall of Fame eligibility are two different things… sort of. The Hall chooses to disqualify players who are under lifetime bans. If it were to change its rules, Rose could be considered even if the lifetime ban remained in effect.

[Invader3K]

I used to think he should be allowed back in after a certain period of time...but I guess as I've gotten older I've taken a harsher stance. This pretty much seals it for me. Let him in after he's passed on.

[Nottso]

He should never get in. I refuse to allow this to be just one more case of "If you're athletic enough, or pretty enough, or rich enough, the rules don't apply to you." And I was a HUGE fan of his.

[splitterpfj]

This is certainly a story, since it's new information, but I'm not moved much by it. I'm not, because this is all so long ago now, and he's already banned for life. Where, exactly, do you go from, "Banned For Life?"

 

The whole thing is a shame, but it happened, and he's gone. I wish it wasn't true, because he was a lot of fun to watch, but it's real, and its been dealt with.

[jerichoholicninja]

Just put him in and put this whole thing to rest. Steroid users too.

[pitchleague]

The last line of the article hit me a bit:

 

"How OTL eventually got a hold of the notebook isn’t made explicitly clear in the story."

 

Separate from the whole Rose thing, this makes ESPN look even more sinister than we already knew they were. I wonder if we'll ever find this out, how they got the notebook.

[superfly]

Overrated player anyway, doesn't belong in the HOF either way. Probably the most glorified singles hitter in the history of MLB.

[pacopete4]

Overrated player anyway, doesn't belong in the HOF either way. Probably the most glorified singles hitter in the history of MLB.

 

Hope this was meant to be blue. He is second all time of the doubles list as well.

[torts]

The last line of the article hit me a bit:

 

"How OTL eventually got a hold of the notebook isn’t made explicitly clear in the story."

 

Separate from the whole Rose thing, this makes ESPN look even more sinister than we already knew they were. I wonder if we'll ever find this out, how they got the notebook.

 

OTL reports, literally, outside of the lines. They have no problem violating HIPPA privacy concerning players/individual medical information, they will do whatever it takes to get that story out before anyone else.

[Invader3K]

Overrated player anyway, doesn't belong in the HOF either way. Probably the most glorified singles hitter in the history of MLB.

 

Uh...no. Just no.

 

I swear if some people had their way, there would be like 10 players in the Hall of Fame, based on some insanely high artificial standard.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Overrated player anyway, doesn't belong in the HOF either way. Probably the most glorified singles hitter in the history of MLB.

 

 

Pete had a 12 year run where he posted no less than a 4 WAR in any season. He was a great player in his prime.

 

I think his final rate stats look a bit tarnished because he obviously hung on a bit longer than he should have to chase some of the personal records. In his prime he was a very good, maybe even great hitter who lead the league in doubles five times, was an OBP machine, and was an adequate defender at whatever position he played.

 

Is he an all time greatest player? No, I wouldn't say that. He was good at what he did, and he did it for a VERY long time.

 

That being said, I have no problem keeping him out of the hall. He agreed to the ban. Live with it.

[Boomer5]

The problem with gambling so much is you will eventually lose, and when you do it is very easy to "influence" you to change the outcome of the game in exchange for debt forgiveness.

 

He actually was a great player and deserving of the Hall, but integrity of the game issues are not forgivable.

[reillymcshane]

It really hasn't been that big of a deal to me, but I've been more in the 'let Rose in' category for a while, but this really puts me into the other camp. He'll never get in the hall now, and I don't think many will argue otherwise. Betting on games you play in is really dicey business. Lying about it repeatedly more so.

 

Just really sad. Rose was a special player. Too bad he ended up as such a train wreck of a person.

[reillymcshane]

The problem with gambling so much is you will eventually lose

Many years ago I saw an actor (Omar Sharif) on David Letterman. He talked about all the money he had lost in his life gambling - millions of dollars. As he said at the time, the house always wins. Always. They (the casinos, lotteries, bookies, etc.) aren't in business to lose money. They have a system set up so they make money, and it's foolish to think otherwise.

[DuWayne Steurer]

It really hasn't been that big of a deal to me, but I've been more in the 'let Rose in' category for a while, but this really puts me into the other camp. He'll never get in the hall now, and I don't think many will argue otherwise. Betting on games you play in is really dicey business. Lying about it repeatedly more so.

 

Just really sad. Rose was a special player. Too bad he ended up as such a train wreck of a person.

 

 

I think we, as Brewers fans, can appreciate this. Brauny getting snagged for roids wasn't the big deal. His bold faced claiming that "the truth" would come out is why he's such a villain now.

[FVBrewerFan]

I don't care if Rose lied or not. He gambled on baseball, and that's strike 1,2, and 3. The fact that he bet on his own team makes it worse, but that doesn't even matter to me. After the Black Sox scandal it has been clear ever since you simply can not gamble, it is cut and dried.

 

The PED users...that's up to the voters for the HOF.

[wildcat83]

I don't care that he gambled, or that he gambled on his own team... if it was to WIN. If it is ever proven that he bet on his own team to lose I can understand the ban. Then you are getting into the area where you can influence games, even if it is just cutting a couple runs in a game you still win. If you are betting on your own team to win how are you influencing games??? By trying hard?? That is the point of sports!

 

Gambling is a bad habit, but a personal choice. Until its proven that he bet against his own team I don't care what bad habits he had. I refuse to believe you can FIX games by betting to win. If you can TRY HARDER then you would not be an elite player to begin with.

[dlk9s]

I don't care that he gambled, or that he gambled on his own team... if it was to WIN. If it is ever proven that he bet on his own team to lose I can understand the ban. Then you are getting into the area where you can influence games, even if it is just cutting a couple runs in a game you still win. If you are betting on your own team to win how are you influencing games??? By trying hard?? That is the point of sports!

 

Here's an example, and a very feasible one, of how betting on his team to win when he was manager could harm his team:

 

Rose has a bunch of money riding on his team to beat the Cubs by two runs. It's the 9th inning and though his best reliever has just thrown three days in a row, he puts him in to pitch because Rose just needs to maintain that two-run cushion. He is risking his player's health just because he, player/manager Pete Rose, bet on his team to win by a certain number of runs.

 

Same applies for if he bet the money line, simply betting on his team to win. He might throw overworked pitchers unnecessarily in game where they are down a bunch late and not likely to win. Maybe he makes a pitcher throw an extra inning when his arm is tired. Whatever. Not only does he risk injury, but we all know that teams aren't going to win every game; managers have to manage the entire season. Even without injury, he might be managing in a way that improves his team's chances to win one game that he bet on, but hurts the teams chances in the long-term.

[FVBrewerFan]

Gambling is a bad habit, but a personal choice.

 

It's also against the rules of MLB, the First Commandment really. You may not like it, but every MLB knows that is something you don't mess with. Do you really want to parse it to say MLB players can bet on baseball all they want, as long as they don't bet against their own team? Really?

 

Rose could have played with the rotation to try to get his #1 vs opponent's #5. I could give more examples, but again it doesn't matter. You can't gamble, and you can't ignore the rules if you don't agree with them.

[Jimbo]

The problem with gambling so much is you will eventually lose, and when you do it is very easy to "influence" you to change the outcome of the game in exchange for debt forgiveness.

 

I used to be of the mindset that if you bet on yourself to win, I saw nothing wrong with it. My understanding is it is common in European soccer and no one blinks an eye.

 

But recently I read "Larceny Games" and the thing the author points out is that an athlete gambling can be indebted to a bookie (or dealer) leading to a compromised situation.