Gomez and K-Rod to Toronto idea

[reillymcshane]

At 35-32, Toronto is two games back in a somewhat lackluster AL East. GM Alex Anthopoulos could easily get cast aside if the club doesn't make the playoffs as many predicted - and ownership expects. That makes it a good time to go after some top tier young talent. Toronto doesn't have a lot of financial flexibility, so that has to be taken into account. Here's the deal:

 

Toronto gets Carlos Gomez and K-Rod. K-Rod fills the closer role at a cheap price. Gomez moves to CF. They had a nice prospect in Dalton Pompey, but he bombed this year at Toronto (.193 BA on 83 ABs) and has gone all the way back down to AA after a tough stint at AAA.

 

Milwaukee gets back LH starter Daniel Norris. He's ranked around #20ish in the prospect charts. He's probably got a #2 type upside. He started five games in Toronto earlier this year, but was somewhat erratic (too many walks) and was sent to AAA.

 

The team also gets catcher Max Pentecost. He was the Jays top pick last year (I believe was picked 10th overall). He's an athletic catcher and solid defender. Unfortunately, he's missed all of this season after suffering a torn labrum last October (he didn't get surgery until February). A torn labrum certainly is scary, so you'd have to feel confident that Pentecost would rebound.

 

These two additions are guys who aren't at peak value for Toronto. But I like the upside of both, so that's who you target. Pentecost potentially fills the organization's need of an everyday catcher down the road, while Norris would immediately go into our rotation, and provide some serious upside - something our rotation lacks.

 

Toronto gets guys that can help them over the next couple of years without breaking the bank. Toronto is a team who's window is now. Bautista, Martin, Encanarcion, Donaldson, Dickey, Buehrle, Reyes - these guys are vets, many into their 30s. The GM wants to keep his job. He needs to win. Now's the time to strike and get some young talent from them. And the club still has some nice young arms, Sanchez is doing good in the majors, plus they have Jeff Hoffman and Sean Reid-Foley in the lower rungs of the minors - so it's not like they are just giving away their entire future.

 

Toronto could really use a solid starter as well. I doubt Lohse and Garza would interest them - they need quality, and both are expensive. But you never know. More likely you could send them Peralta, who would be a needed quality arm. The return would have to start with Hoffman and/or Reid-Foley - but that's an entirely other idea. And it all goes on the assumption the club would be willing to trade Wily.

[wildcat2237]

So basically the Brewers are trading an elite centerfielder and a closer who has been pretty good for a bunch of damaged goods?

 

I think I'd actually want more for Gomez alone.

 

If I'm doing a deal with Toronto, I probably go for the high upside guys in the lower minors and not the damaged goods in the upper minors.

[reillymcshane]

So basically the Brewers are trading an elite centerfielder and a closer who has been pretty good for a bunch of damaged goods?

 

I think I'd actually want more for Gomez alone.

 

If I'm doing a deal with Toronto, I probably go for the high upside guys in the lower minors and not the damaged goods in the upper minors.

Why is Norris damaged goods? Is he hurt? I didn't realize that.

 

And of course, you have to make sure Pentecost is given a clean bill of health.

[Hammer]

So basically the Brewers are trading an elite centerfielder and a closer who has been pretty good for a bunch of damaged goods?

 

I think I'd actually want more for Gomez alone.

 

If I'm doing a deal with Toronto, I probably go for the high upside guys in the lower minors and not the damaged goods in the upper minors.

 

 

This is the type of response that would have gotten harsh criticism several years back on the bfan.net forums. If you don't like the proposal from reillymcshane why don't you share what players that you **would** be interested in from the Toronto system? That brings more to the table than "So basically the Brewers are trading an elite centerfielder and a closer who has been pretty good for a bunch of damaged goods?".

 

Just my $.02

 

"Old guy" Hammer

 

 

Edit: I decided to take a crack at the Blue Jays minor leagues and would propose a deal that included Pentecost, Miguel Castro (20 y/o RHP in High A), Angel Perdomo (20 y/o LHP in Rookie Ball) and a PTBNL from a list of 3-4 top 30 prospects (maybe from the 2015 draft).

 

Is that enough?

[pacopete4]

I don't like the trade because I don't feel we are getting enough for two all-star type players who have pretty friendly contracts.

 

Maybe add in Marcus Stroman (I know ACL) to add to the rotation next year? I don't know, none of the Jays prospects really jump out at me. (Doesn't mean they aren't good)

[bill hAll Star]

I like the idea of this trade. If you don't like the return, increase Toronto's package...I'm not sure who else they have in the system, though.

 

I also think that Toronto may consider Garza, though I'm not sure they seem like a team to want to absorb his deal.

[pacopete4]

I like the idea of this trade. If you don't like the return, increase Toronto's package...I'm not sure who else they have in the system, though.

 

I also think that Toronto may consider Garza, though I'm not sure they seem like a team to want to absorb his deal.

 

 

I'd pay some of Garza's money if it means getting higher prospects in return. It would be worth it in the long run.

[reillymcshane]

So basically the Brewers are trading an elite centerfielder and a closer who has been pretty good for a bunch of damaged goods?

 

I think I'd actually want more for Gomez alone.

 

If I'm doing a deal with Toronto, I probably go for the high upside guys in the lower minors and not the damaged goods in the upper minors.

 

 

This is the type of response that would have gotten harsh criticism several years back on the bfan.net forums. If you don't like the proposal from reillymcshane why don't you share what players that you **would** be interested in from the Toronto system? That brings more to the table than "So basically the Brewers are trading an elite centerfielder and a closer who has been pretty good for a bunch of damaged goods?".

 

Just my $.02

 

"Old guy" Hammer

 

Thank you. Appreciate it.

[TheCrew07]

K-Rod may be an all-star this year, but that doesn't mean he has significant trade value. He netted Delmonico last he was traded and at that time he didn't cost as much as he does now, was a FA to be, and was younger.

 

K-Rod might get us a thrown in, the real value would come from Gomez. As to the prospects... well the Jays have proven to be stupid about trading young pitching.

 

Daniel Norris is an excellent target, and no he's not injured. BA had him as the 18th best prospect in baseball coming into this season:

....He had surgery this offseason to remove loose bodies from his left elbow. Norris has a deep repertoire, and his ability to miss bats was unparalleled in the minors this year. He had the highest strikeout rate (11.8 K/9 and 32.5 percent of plate appearances) of any qualified starter in full-season ball this year, and his strikeout rate increased at each of his three minor league stops. His fastball velocity increased this year, sitting 91-95 mph and touching 97 as a starter. Norris' loose, quick arm works easily and produces downhill plane from a high three-quarters arm slot, which is slightly raised from earlier in his career. He gets good extension out front, helping give his stuff late riding life through the zone. His top secondary offering is a sharp, tight slider with at least plus potential that flashes plus-plus at its best. He shows feel for a changeup that also has at least plus potential, though he can get around on the pitch to give it cut-like action to his glove side. A curveball that has at least average potential and 1-7 tilt is Norris' fourth offering, despite occasionally having a velocity difference of nearly 20 mph off his fastball....

 

If they wouldn't give up Norris I'd take a shot a Hoffman now that he's back from TJ surgery:

...Hoffman is a premium athlete with the stuff, body and athleticism to profile in the front half of a rotation. His fastball sits 93-96 mph, touching 98 with the ball jumping from his hand. Hoffman's two-seamer has at least plus life with heavy, bat-breaking sink and arm-side run to get groundballs. His drop-and-drive delivery works easy with natural fluidity and a loose arm. He offers a true downer curveball with at least plus potential that flashes plusplus. Hoffman offers feel for a changeup that improved significantly over the last year and also has at least plus potential, flashing a full grade better. He also mixed in a mid-80s slider with at least average potential. He fills up the zone and projects to have at least plus control.... Few starters in the minors can match his upside...

 

Pentecost is a good target, though he's on the DL, I didn't check what for. He wouldn't hit as well as Lucroy but could be a .280 AVE guy with 15ish HRs at his peak.

...Pentecost is a premium athlete for a catcher. He was a top performer in college and finished second in the NCAA in batting average this spring (.422/.482/.627). Pentecost has an easy, quick and short stroke conducive to line drives to all fields. He flashes above-average raw power to his pull side but his swing path is geared more toward line drives to the gaps. He projects to hit for 12-15 home runs annually with high doubles production. Pentecost is a plus runner at present. He has instincts on the bases and was never caught stealing in 25 tries during his college career. Pentecost has a plus arm, albeit a sometimes inaccurate one, with a quick release and his receiving improved significantly, giving him the potential to be at least an average defender. His debut was truncated because of nagging injuries, and Pentecost had surgery in October to repair a partial tear in his right labrum, but he is expected to be ready for the start of the season and will likely begin at Lansing or Dunedin.

 

If not Pentecost then target OF Dalton Pompey:

A plus athlete, Pompey is a premium defender. His gap-closing defense has drawn plus-plus grades from scouts. He offers an above-average arm that could play in right field. His speed is at least plus and is capable of the occasional plusplus time out of the box. He is a smart, efficient basestealer who can impact games on the bases. The switch-hitter could become an above-average hitter who draws walks at an above-average clip throughout his career while producing above-average contact rates. His quick-twitch athleticism translates to the batter's box with natural whip and bat speed. He will likely hit 10-15 home runs annually with lots of extra-base hits. Pompey's defensive and baserunning prowess gives him a high floor and the development of his bat could give him a well-rounded skill set capable of contributing in nearly every phase of the game.

 

Miguel Castro (Hammer) is another good target:

....Castro is a physical specimen with a large frame, broad shoulders, long extremities and a lean, wiry build. Castro's fastball sat in the low-90s before he signed but now sits in the mid-90s and touches 99 with a loose arm. He has a quick arm and the ball jumps from his hand with extension out front from a long-striding delivery. His low three-quarters arm slot produces plus sinking life, arm-side run and angle that projects to get groundballs at an above-average clip. Castro pitches off of his fastball and his top secondary offering is a changeup with plus potential. His slider is still in its developmental stages and is not consistently average. But his hand speed and arm slot give his sweepy slider a chance to develop. Castro's fastball velocity, life and extension make him tough on righthanded hitters...

 

I also like Hammer's idea of throwing in a lower lever guy or 2 who's not in there top 10 like Angel Perdomo.

 

I'd take 1 each of the position players and pitchers mentioned above, and I like the idea of some low level pitching thrown in, some guys with zip to their FBs.

 

2 top 10 prospects and a couple of guys to dream on seems like a pretty fair deal to me.

 

 

Edit. No idea why I didn't add in Pentecost's scouting report, doing that now.

[MrTPlush]

Hate to disagree with everyone, but I think Toronto would never do that deal and somewhat of an overpay. That is two very high ceiling players and I just don't see a team giving up that kind of package. I wouldn't expect much more than Norris honestly. As mentioned I doubt K-Rod has much value so any deal is mostly just for Gomez.

 

For 1.5 years of Gomez I'd expect Norris plus one other decent prospect(maybe one iffy prospect too) and another decent prospect for K-Rod. Maybe Norris/May/Smith just putting something out there quick. If you want an elite prospect MLB or close to it ready don't expect much else.

[Polish Falcons]

How about Gomez to the Yankees for Luis Severino?

[mlloyd10]

Add Sanchez or judge

[MrTPlush]

Add Sanchez or judge

 

For only Gomez? Not a chance...maybe if we trade them Lucroy instead.

[PeaveyFury]

Any deal with Toronto that targets Norris seems to be a good starting point, in my opinion. Pentecost is probably a tough one to include due to the injury, but I don't think the original deal is unfair for us.

[igor67]

General thought, given the rarity of any trade deal involving multiple premium prospects anymore (seems like that only happens in true Ace deals) I tend to prefer 1 centerpiece type in these larger deals and then go for quantity. Not taking only long shots of course, but the difference in prospect quality seemingly once you get that far down the list is low enough that I'd rather have multiple shots at getting a second useful player out rather than a slightly higher chance of just one guy making it.

[MrTPlush]

General thought, given the rarity of any trade deal involving multiple premium prospects anymore (seems like that only happens in true Ace deals) I tend to prefer 1 centerpiece type in these larger deals and then go for quantity. Not taking only long shots of course, but the difference in prospect quality seemingly once you get that far down the list is low enough that I'd rather have multiple shots at getting a second useful player out rather than a slightly higher chance of just one guy making it.

 

This^

 

Not only is it rare to get two premium prospects I'd prefer to only get one then a flurry of guys. More value in my mind.

[SRB]

I think LHP Daniel Norris, RHP Jeff Hoffman, and C Max Pentecost would be a fair return (if Gomez gets hot, he's off to a slow start this season).

[danzig6767]

I think LHP Daniel Norris, RHP Jeff Hoffman, and C Max Pentecost would be a fair return (if Gomez gets hot, he's off to a slow start this season).

No way would they trade all three of them

[brewcrewdue80]

Agree with Danzig. Hoffman to me has to be untouchable considering what he was thought of prior to the TJ and gotten by the Jays only because of it. But Norris/Pentecost + seems like a start. If KRod is part of the deal, would look to add Foley for sure too. I'd check in on Richard Urena too. For a guy who is listed as having power similar to Sardinas...he has 11HRs already this season. He's 19. Would give me the impression that he's got some high potential.

[Luke99]

Gomez and K Rod for Hoffman, Anthony Alford, Smorel, Rowdy Tellez gets it done for me.

 

I am a big fan of Alford's upside, he is a potential 5 tool guy. Not sure we can get all 4, but I would also be willing to toss in another bullpen arm to make it happen. I think we would only be able to get 1 of 3 from the Norris, Hoffman, Pentecost group. Most teams are going to very loathe to give up 2 of their top 5, even for a guy like Gomez.

[TheCrew07]

An aging veteran pitcher with a proven track record would certainly fit the Jay's MO.

 

Top 10 Fantasy Prospects: Nola Next Up?

June 25, 2015 by Vince Lara-Cinisomo

 

9. Daniel Norris, lhp, Blue Jays

 

Update: Norris is 1-7, 3.72 at Triple-A Buffalo, but is striking out more than a batter per inning and struck out nine in six innings against Lehigh Valley on Wednesday.

 

Prognosis: The hard-throwing lefthander is an interesting case in that he’s an option for a major league rotation, but that opportunity might come in a different organization. The Blue Jays, sensing a chance to contend in the downtrodden AL East, have made no secret they’re seeking a rotation upgrade and one way to do that would be trading Norris and others for an established arm such as Cole Hamels.

[wildcat2237]

Thought I'd revive the Toronto thread.

 

I originally didn't think the Blue Jays were a good fit, due to the injury history of some of their top guys. However today MLBTR reported (Via Jeff Simmons) that Antropoulus in Toronto is open to trading from their MLB roster.

 

Apparently Anthropolous was on the phone with a rival GM who wanted big league pieces or near big league pieces. Sounds like Melvins MO. (Segura trade, Sardinas/Knebel trade).

 

I could very well see Melvin picking up guys like Dioner Navarro and Justin Smoak in a trade with the Jays in anticipation of Dealing Lucroy and Lind.

 

The article is here: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/07/blue-jays-trades-anthopoulos.html

 

Anthopoulos Open To Dealing From Major League Roster

By Steve Adams [July 8, 2015 at 10:36am CDT]

Blue Jays general manager Alex Anthopoulos has been vocal about his desire to strengthen both his starting rotation and his bullpen prior to the trade deadline, and in a television appearance on Sportsnet’s Tim & Sid show, he expressed an openness to dealing from his big league roster to do so. Via Sportsnet’s Jeff Simmons, Anthopoulos said that while he’s reluctant to do so, it’s already been discussed with other teams:

 

“We’re looking to add and it’s hard to take away from the big-league club. I was on the phone with one team (prior to coming on the show) and I mentioned that we may need to be creative. As much as we don’t want to take away from the current 25, we bounced around some ideas and concepts. That’s not the path we want to go down but if we can’t seem to get what we want from a prospect standpoint we’ll need to open it up and be creative, similar to what Oakland and the Red Sox did last year with Jon Lester and (Yoenis) Cespedes. We’re open to doing something like that as well.”

 

On July 31 last season, the A’s acquired free-agents-to-be Lester and Jonny Gomes from the Red Sox in exchange for Cespedes and a Competitive Balance draft pick. That trade stunned many at the time, given the fact that Cespedes was a significant cog in the contending Athletics’ lineup, but it was certainly not the only trade in which a contending club traded away a notable big leaguer. The Tigers parted with both Austin Jackson and Drew Smyly in a three-team trade with the Mariners and Rays in order to acquire the services of David Price.

 

Such trades could be more commonplace in 2015, given the parity that exists throughout the game and particularly in the American League. However, when looking at the Blue Jays’ roster, they don’t necessarily have a player with one-and-a-half years of service time remaining (the amount of service that both Cespedes and Jackson had) that fits the exact mold of those two 2014 trades. While both Jose Bautista and Edwin Encarnacion have only a 2016 club option remaining on their deals, each also has 10-and-5 rights, meaning that both Bautista and Encarnacion must personally approve a trade to another team.

 

Dioner Navarro stands out to me as a name that could be moved to a team in need of a catching upgrade. Toronto could either replace him at DH internally or find a DH replacement via trade, as that would be easier to come by than a significant pitching upgrade. Productive part-timers like Danny Valencia, Chris Colabello and Justin Smoak could hold appeal to other clubs as well, though none of the aforementioned names would bring a significant return on his own.

 

One name that could draw some interest might be Kevin Pillar. The Jays do have an in-house candidate to replace him in center field in the form of Dalton Pompey, who was demoted earlier this year but has slashed .357/.416/.571 in his past 26 Double-A contests. Pillar, though, is controllable through 2020, and he may be changing the perception that he’s a fourth outfielder. His five-plus years of control and elite glove might make him an unlikely candidate to go, but it’s easy to envision teams inquiring.

 

All of that, of course, is all highly speculative as opposed to anything that Anthopoulos has indicated through his comments. The Blue Jays also have a nice stable of near-MLB-ready talent to deal from in Pompey, Daniel Norris and Miguel Castro, to say nothing of high-upside prospects that are further down the line such as Jeff Hoffman and Max Pentecost.

 

For the time being, Anthpoulos said that he’s not close on any deals, but he’s “starting to talk a little bit more” with other clubs, calling the All-Star break “the earliest to get something done.” The Toronto GM also expressed a willingness to act quickly, stating: “In season though, timing is huge. Within two or three days or a week, someone’s value can skyrocket so if you have a chance to close (on a deal), you better do it fast.”

[jerichoholicninja]

I could very well see Melvin picking up guys like Dioner Navarro and Justin Smoak in a trade with the Jays in anticipation of Dealing Lucroy and Lind.

 

That seems pretty pointless even for Melvin (or Mark) to do. If you are going to trade major league players for major league players getting older/worse/more expensive players doesn't do anything to help you in any way. If Lucroy is traded Maldonado is fine to ride out the season. If Lind is traded, Lucroy probably gets a few games at first if he's still on the team, otherwise Rogers and Clark have the position.

[mlloyd10]

Krod for pillar or krod/Gomez for pillar/stroman

[reillymcshane]

I'd still like Gomez/K-Rod for Norris and Pentecost (assuming the latter appears healthy). I love Norris - lefthander, #2 potential, he's kind of a wacky guy too. I like quirky people. He would step right into the rotation.

 

I loved Pentecost coming out of college. Really athletic catcher. Won't hit a ton of HRs, but he could be a Lucroy type hitter - .280, 12-15 HR. He's supposed to be returning to action soon after having off season surgery. You'd have to be confident he could rebound because if he can't catch, I'm not sure where he would move to - and if he'd hit enough for a spot such as 1B.

 

I like Jeff Hoffman as well, but he's more of a project. But that might appeal to Toronto. They might see Norris as a key guy next year, while Hoffman is a few years away.

 

I will add that this is the time to strike with Toronto. They are built to win in the next couple of years, so now is when you get their young talent. The tough part is that starting pitching is their greatest need, and if the team goes out and gets a top notch starter, they might not be willing to make a second big deal (and really deplete their farm system).