Atlanta Journal Constitution Musings - Bethancourt for Lucroy

[Mass Haas]

A Braves trade that might fit: Bethancourt for Lucroy

 

Mainly posted because I can't believe people can keep their jobs when they write stuff like this.

[Outlander]

Even though it is not spelled the same I think I will be fine if there is never another Betancourt on a Brewers team.

[wildcat2237]

A Braves trade that might fit: Bethancourt for Lucroy

 

Mainly posted because I can't believe people can keep their jobs when they write stuff like this.

 

Wow. Young catcher who has been demoted for one of the 3 or 4 best in the game

 

Done Deal.

 

Maybe we can then trade Scooter Gennett for Buster Posey.

 

*Note: When I first read this I thought it was some kind of sarcastic blog about the Braves 2015 struggles. It looks like this guy actually gets paid to write about baseball.

[bill hAll Star]

I guess Bethancourt has potential enough to have once been ranked in the top 100 prospects, but he hasn't really shown much of it on either side of the ball at any level so far.

 

Yeah. Done deal.

[Mr Southpaw]

Lucroy for

Bethancourt, Rio Ruiz, and one of their top SP in the minors (preferably Fried).

That is at least even when you consider prospects are just that.

[MrTPlush]

Impressive 12 year old level article there(maybe a bit too much credit?). Totally ignores looking from the Brewers point of view.

[wildcat2237]

Impressive 12 year old level article there(maybe a bit too much credit?). Totally ignores looking from the Brewers point of view.

 

Some of the worst professional journalism I've seen in a while.

 

That trade makes ZERO sense.

[MrTPlush]

Impressive 12 year old level article there(maybe a bit too much credit?). Totally ignores looking from the Brewers point of view.

 

Some of the worst professional journalism I've seen in a while.

 

That trade makes ZERO sense.

 

And it didn't come from some random blog...it came from the cities main newspaper. Easily the worst professional journalism I have ever seen.

[JohnBriggs12]

It's Atlanta. They got a full roster including several HOFers from Milwaukee once for nothing in return.

[abqbrewer]

I love that many of the comments (many are likely Braves fans) said the same thing about it being too lops-sided to even consider,

[jerichoholicninja]

Hey, the story got clicks. Who cares if it's ridiculously terrible writing.

[Eye Black]

The Braves just acquired Touki Toussaint from the D-backs per this TWEET, a player that Brewers Scouting Director Ray Montgomery drafted in the first round last year. Only speculation on my part, but I wouldn't be shocked if the trade involved Bethancourt. If so, maybe it will spur the Braves to trade for a catcher?

 

The Braves have certainly put together quite the collection of young prospects over the past 8 months.

[brewmann04]

Braves realized it was time to rebuild

[Eye Black]

Looks like the trade involves the following...

 

@Ken_Rosenthal: Source: #DBacks getting IF Phil Gosselin for Arroyo, Toussaint. Clearing money.

[billymac]

Package Lucroy and K. Davis for a bunch of young arms

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/07/braves-seeking-young-catcher-trade.html

 

Atlanta is looking to buy offense at C and LF

[SRB]

I don't think the Braves have the prospects to land Lucroy. None of them are too exciting to me.

[TheCrew07]

I would take Freid, Sims, and Toussaint in a heartbeat.

 

Fried and Harvard-Westlake High teammate Lucas Giolito become the seventh pair of prep teammates to be selected in the first round of the same draft in 2012. Now he and the Nationals' No. 1 prospect are linked for another reason after Fried had Tommy John surgery in late August 2014, almost exactly two years after Giolito had the same procedure. Fried came down with forearm soreness in spring training 2014 and didn't make his first appearance until July 3, when he began a rehab assignment. Five abbreviated, ineffective starts later and he was done for the year, with scouts seeing little trace of the same pitcher who showed promise at low Class A Fort Wayne in 2013. Fried has room to grow into his 6-foot-4 frame and possibly add to his 90-92 mph fastball that has topped out at 95 in pro ball. He shows uncommon feel for a power curveball with plus, 12-to-6 action and serious strikeout potential. Even when healthy in 2013, Fried had not mastered a changeup or thrown enough strikes (4.3 walks per nine innings) to maximize his stuff. The Padres commend Fried for fully committing to his Tommy John rehab regimen and expect him to be ready to pitch in games late in the 2015 season. With two potential plus pitches and an average third, he has a ceiling of No. 2 starter, though his spotty pro performance record and elbow surgery enhance his risk significantly.

 

Selected 21st overall in 2012, Sims had his workload restricted by Atlanta during his first two tastes of pro ball . He was the youngest player in the high Class A Carolina League on Opening Day 2014 and it showed with just 4.9 strikeouts per nine innings in the first three months, but he finished strong with a rate of 7.6 in July and August. The competitive Sims made impressive strides in his feel for pitching in the second half of 2014. An athletic pitcher who has fine-tuned his delivery, his best offering is a plus fastball that sits in the low to mid-90s and reaches 96 mph regularly. The pitch has good run, which creates lots of swings and misses. Sims uses the pitch on both sides of the plate and can overpower some hitters with his heater's explosiveness. His slider and curve often blend into a slurvy breaking ball in the upper 70s, and his improved command of the pitch contributed to his late-season success at Lynchburg. He has worked hard on his changeup since signing but shows an inconsistent feel for the pitch. While his overall control is solid, Sims needs to continue to improve his sequencing to get more strikeouts. Sims learned from his mistakes and became a better all-around pitcher. A potential No. 3 starter in the big leagues, he should make the jump to Double-A Mississippi in 2015.

 

The Diamondbacks were thrilled to find Toussaint's name on the draft board when their turn came for the 16th overall pick in 2014. They convinced him to forego his commitment to Vanderbilt with a $2.7 million bonus. Toussaint was born in Haiti and lived there until he was 6, and he didn't begin playing baseball until he was 11. While he's less experienced than most high school pitchers in his draft class, he's a showcase veteran who can match the ceiling of any prep arm in the 2014 draft. Toussaint made his pro debut in the Rookie-level Arizona League before moving up to Rookie-level Missoula in 2014. With big hands and a long wingspan, he uses explosive arm speed to deliver a fastball in the 90-95 mph range with plus life. He's athletic and the ball comes out of his hand easy. He has a natural ability to spin the ball, thus the jewel of Toussaint's arsenal is a 74-77 mph curveball that projects as a double-plus pitch. He has a good feel for a slightly above-average changeup with tumble that ranges from 79-84 mph with enough potential that it could develop into a third plus pitch. Toussaint struggled with command as a pro in 2014, but he looked more comfortable on the mound in instructional league with more consistency in repeating his high three-quarters delivery. Toussaint may be ready for an assignment to low Class A Kane County in 2015, though he may stay in extended spring training for a while to limit his innings and keep him out of the Midwest League's coldest weather. Touissant has ace potential if he tames his control.

 

While I prefer someone like Daniel Norris the simple truth is that it takes 2 to tango, and there may not be a deal on the table for better pitching prospects. Ideally I want someone who always been healthy with a huge arm like Tyler Glasnow, but we aren't going to get him and there are only so many of those guys around.

Norris has a deep repertoire, and his ability to miss bats was unparalleled in the minors this year. He had the highest strikeout rate (11.8 K/9 and 32.5 percent of plate appearances) of any qualified starter in full-season ball this year, and his strikeout rate increased at each of his three minor league stops. His fastball velocity increased this year, sitting 91-95 mph and touching 97 as a starter. Norris' loose, quick arm works easily and produces downhill plane from a high three-quarters arm slot, which is slightly raised from earlier in his career. He gets good extension out front, helping give his stuff late riding life through the zone. His top secondary offering is a sharp, tight slider with at least plus potential that flashes plus-plus at its best. He shows feel for a changeup that also has at least plus potential, though he can get around on the pitch to give it cut-like action to his glove side. A curveball that has at least average potential and 1-7 tilt is Norris' fourth offering, despite occasionally having a velocity difference of nearly 20 mph off his fastball. Norris threw more strikes (3.1 walks per nine) than he ever has in his career and projects for at least average control. Norris entered the system throwing significantly across his body; that has been reduced, although he still throws across his body some, offering natural deception. Norris is staying taller on his backside and has reduced the rigidity to the front side of his delivery, particularly his front leg. His posture is now more upright at release after routinely being off-balance because of his cross-body direction. Norris will likely start the year in the rotation at the upper minors, and as long as he's healthy should crack the big league rotation in the second half.

 

Glasnow had a breakout season in 2013 at low Class A West Virginia when he was named the South Atlantic League pitcher of the year. He followed up by winning the same honor in the Florida State League in 2014 at high Class A Bradenton when he topped the league in ERA (1.74) and the entire minors in opponent average (.174). He was even harder to hit in 2013 with a .140 average. Glasnow has the ability to overpower hitters with a blazing fastball that reaches the high 90s and regularly comes in at 97 mph. His heater has topped out at 99 mph. Glasnow uses his long wingspan to his advantage, getting good extension on his pitches and giving batters the sense that the ball is dropping right down upon them. His 80 mph curveball has good break to it, but Glasnow must learn how to throw it for strikes more often, for too often it's a chase pitch at this point in his career. The same can be said for his changeup, though he has good velocity separation with it in the mid-80s. Glasnow does a good job of repeating his delivery, but with long levers, he is slow to the plate and can be run on. Because of his size, he is also slow getting off the mound, and opponents can take advantage of that by bunting. Glasnow is noted for his work ethic, though, and is willing to spend the time and effort necessary to address his deficiencies. Glasnow is not a finished product, but he has had two consecutive outstanding seasons and will be tested this year when he is assigned to Double-A Altoona. Despite his credentials, Glasnow still is young for his level, and the Pirates rarely push their young players, so they will give him some necessary developmental time. With that in mind, look for him to spend the majority of the season in the Eastern League, with a late promotion to Triple-A Indianapolis possible. Glasnow likely won't see the major leagues until sometime in 2016, but he has the raw ability to eventually join Gerrit Cole at the top of the Pirates' rotation.

 

Perfect pitching prospects like Noah Syndergaard are pretty rare and nearly impossible acquire so we have to be willing to accept some warts and hope the team can help the player work through them.

[Bnowell4evr]

I'd trade Lucroy for Sims, Fried and Toussaint as well. The Braves can take whoever they want more between Parra and Davis to fill their OF need.

[MrTPlush]

I'd trade Lucroy for Sims, Fried and Toussaint as well. The Braves can take whoever they want more between Parra and Davis to fill their OF need.

 

Khris Davis has some decent value...why are we throwing him into a trade? Lucroy and Davis would take quite a package. More than the 3 pitchers being thrown around.

[TheCrew07]

Because he's replaceable talent, he's not a piece you build around.

[nate82]

I would take Freid, Sims, and Toussaint in a heartbeat.

 

 

I would prefer Sims, Toussaint, and Davidson.

[MrTPlush]

Because he's replaceable talent, he's not a piece you build around.

 

I can't say I understand. We are going to just throw away a controllable starting LFer because he is replaceable? That just makes no sense to me. Khris Davis is worth some nice prospects himself. Not someone you throw in a trade so a team will trade for your star catcher. Especially when they are trading 3 nice, but not great prospects. Not like we are talking about one of the pitchers from the Mets.

[MrTPlush]

I also think Lucroy should command more than just 3 of their pitchers. None of them are blow you away prospects. It might take one more top prospect or some lower level guys.

[TheCrew07]

I can't say I understand. We are going to just throw away a controllable starting LFer because he is replaceable?

 

No, not throwing him away, moving assets around the board to trade up in value and acquire a greater position of need. Starting pitching > position players > the bullpen.

 

The idea shouldn't be to limit the possibilities to a narrowly defined set, keep your options open. It doesn't make sense just to trade someone just because they are expensive, because their contract their contract is expiring, or because the team is having a down year. They can be both buyers and sellers in the same year, I've demonstrated the WAR difference dozens of times. The Brewers should be looking to re-position assets and build a rotation first because that's the hardest thing to do. Once they have a rotation, then they can spin assets off if they won't sign early to keep the pitching train going, but the Brewers have to start somewhere because they haven't ever been able to develop enough impact pitching on their own.

 

Too many want to acquire prospects like Noah Syndergaard when he's the best pitching prospect in baseball, the idea should be to acquire him in A ball like the Mets did... that's where the value is.

[MrTPlush]

While I agree, the original poster gave Khris Davis the same value as Gerardo Parra...so marginal value at best. Khris Davis has so much more value than Parra and it isn't even close.

 

I am all for trading Khris Davis if it means a better return, but Davis/Lucroy for those three pitchers would be a joke. Even Lucroy for those 3 pitchers may be a less than amazing return.