Braun is having his thumb worked on again

[JJHardy7]

I think it's too soon to know if Braun's thumb will hinder his performance/prevent a trade. I am wondering if this treatment will keep working or not. I don't think anyone here knows the answer to that. It is in the Brewers' best interest that this treatment works (obviously).

[FVBrewerFan]

Are those of you saying it's no big deal absolutely certain that this treatment will continue to work with no diminishing results and no side effects?

 

I don't know either, but if I'm a GM, I'd certainly have concern over trading for a guy who I would be paying for 15 more seasons who requires an experimental surgery to temporarily regain his ability to hit. To me, this is akin to a pitcher who needs a cortisone shot in his shoulder every 4-5 starts. There is a serious problem there that is being masked - not cured - and that will be your problem if you trade for him. Without this surgery, Braun is a mediocre player, and this surgery is hiding that, not fixing it.

 

Comparison to pitcher's shoulder is similar, but not the same. From everything I've read, the procedure does "work" it's just a matter of how often he needs it repeated. The net effect is his thumb is numb. And he has now proven he can hit just fine with in numbed. So whether he needs this done once every couple years, or once every couple months, it really doesn't matter.

 

You're right, it is not a cure. Just as glasses/contacts are no cure for poor vision- but they are a functional solution. I see Braun's thumb closer to that comparison than a pitcher getting cortisone shots in his shoulder.

[monty57]

I see Braun's thumb closer to that comparison than a pitcher getting cortisone shots in his shoulder.

 

I hope you are correct, but unless it is known (like it is known that glasses correct vision) that this is a permanent solution, I think GM's could be hesitant. Of course, their doctors may tell them it's nothing to worry about, in which case it shouldn't have a negative effect on trade value. If the doctors don't know if it's a permanent solution, I'd steer clear.

 

From cursory reading (what they said when he was about to go under the knife), it sounds like this is a somewhat new procedure, so the ongoing results may not be clear. I'll stop here, because I'm arguing an unknown. Just saying it may be something to watch.

[reillymcshane]

I think any team should be concerned about Braun's thumb. Yes, the treatment seems to work now, but what about in the future? If I'm right, this treatment is pretty new territory for baseball players. Who knows how it will work after the 3rd or 5th or whatever treatment. Any team should be hesitant to assume all is well and good after just a couple of treatments. This is not a one year contract they're taking on - it's five years. You'd be crazy not to be concerned about Braun's thumb.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I still think Braun is very tradeable, as long as he keeps hitting the way he has. Maybe not today, but later this season, or the off-season. Why?

 

1) I've said it over and over, but his past PED use does not diminish his value. Plenty of other guys with PED use have been traded, signed as FA, etc. He did need to prove he can hit post PED use, and he is doing that.

 

2) His contract is very reasonable for a .900 OPS guy who still has a few prime seasons left.

 

3) This thumb thing can be managed. Everyone gets off a few guys here and there, so this is no different.

 

4) Who would want a .900 OPS guy? Question is, who would NOT want that?

 

 

Except he's not a .900 OPS guy. He hasn't been that for over the last 1000 plate appearances. Yes, I know he had a nice hot streak where he put up a 1.000 OPS. Like others have said, every hitter is capable of hot streaks. Braun is still a good hitter. Labelling him as a '.900 OPS guy' is a bit of a prop-up though, isn't it?

[502 to Right]

Are those of you saying it's no big deal absolutely certain that this treatment will continue to work with no diminishing results and no side effects?

 

I don't know either, but if I'm a GM, I'd certainly have concern over trading for a guy who I would be paying for 15 more seasons who requires an experimental surgery to temporarily regain his ability to hit. To me, this is akin to a pitcher who needs a cortisone shot in his shoulder every 4-5 starts. There is a serious problem there that is being masked - not cured - and that will be your problem if you trade for him. Without this surgery, Braun is a mediocre player, and this surgery is hiding that, not fixing it.

 

 

These are my thoughts exactly.

[FVBrewerFan]

I still think Braun is very tradeable, as long as he keeps hitting the way he has. Maybe not today, but later this season, or the off-season. Why?

 

1) I've said it over and over, but his past PED use does not diminish his value. Plenty of other guys with PED use have been traded, signed as FA, etc. He did need to prove he can hit post PED use, and he is doing that.

 

2) His contract is very reasonable for a .900 OPS guy who still has a few prime seasons left.

 

3) This thumb thing can be managed. Everyone gets off a few guys here and there, so this is no different.

 

4) Who would want a .900 OPS guy? Question is, who would NOT want that?

 

 

Except he's not a .900 OPS guy. He hasn't been that for over the last 1000 plate appearances. Yes, I know he had a nice hot streak where he put up a 1.000 OPS. Like others have said, every hitter is capable of hot streaks. Braun is still a good hitter. Labelling him as a '.900 OPS guy' is a bit of a prop-up though, isn't it?

 

Which is why I didn't call him a 1.000 OPS guy. He is not that player anymore, partly because of him personally, partly because OPS is down across the board in MLB. So no, I wouldn't expect him to produce at the level he has over the last month. But I do think .900 is realistic. But even at .850 his contract is reasonable for many teams.

 

Teams weren't scared away by Nelson Cruz PED use, or as said earlier, Hamilton's issues- which were far more worrisome than Braun's. Lots of other examples.

 

The issue isn't whether this new procedure "works." It does, it freezes the nerve. It's not like one day it can't freeze the nerve. The only question all along was his grip on the bat, could he function, etc. And he has proven he can play with it. Now it's just a matter of how often he needs this procedure.

[monty57]

The issue isn't whether this new procedure "works." It does, it freezes the nerve. It's not like one day it can't freeze the nerve.

 

Nerves are receptors whose sole purpose is to tell us something else is wrong. The nerve isn't usually the problem, it's a warning. For instance, you touch a hot stove and the nerves say "pull your hand back." You could numb your hand, and then touching the stove wouldn't hurt. However, your hand would get fried because the nerves weren't telling you to pull your hand back.

 

Does freezing the nerve in Braun's hand solve anything, or simply cause the nerve to stop telling Braun "ouch," so that he can perform the action which probably caused the problem in the first place (swinging a bat). If so, then performing said action could lead the actual problem to worsen.

 

I don't know the details, but Braun originally said he didn't want the surgery. Why? If there were no chance it would cause any further damage, there is no reason he wouldn't have it done. It's not like he's averse to doing things to his body to help him stay on the field.

[dlk9s]

Does freezing the nerve in Braun's hand solve anything, or simply cause the nerve to stop telling Braun "ouch," so that he can perform the action which probably caused the problem in the first place (swinging a bat). If so, then performing said action could lead the actual problem to worsen.

From what I recall, it sounded like the nerve IS the problem, not that it's warning his brain about something else. Thus, treating the nerve is treating the problem. I could be wrong, though.

 

I don't know the details, but Braun originally said he didn't want the surgery. Why? If there were no chance it would cause any further damage, there is no reason he wouldn't have it done. It's not like he's averse to doing things to his body to help him stay on the field.

Here's why he didn't have surgery earlier (http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24516523/ryan-braun-opted-not-to-have-thumb-surgery-during-ped-suspension):

"The only two surgeries we knew of last year, neither of them were appealing," Braun said. "Look, I rely on the advice of people who are much more knowledgeable on this stuff that I am. The only two surgeries they described last year, one is I would never feel anything in my thumb again, because they would completely remove the nerve. That doesn't make sense just long-term, living life. The other one, there would be nerve endings, because they would remove the nerve but the nerve endings would still be there, which could be really painful, and [Dr. Don Sheridan, the specialist who examined Braun several times] said he didn't think that would be a great option, either."

[Pugger]

Does anybody know how this nerve damage happened?

[yfinn6]

Does anybody know how this nerve damage happened?

 

I believe he was beaned on the thumb/hand, and then fouled a ball off or got jammed real bad and it sort of went from there, if I'm remembering correctly.

[jvrocksaz]

According to the article, the treatment was first performed on October 2nd, 2014. If it has a shelf life of 6 to 7 months, it can be managed much more properly going forward to limit the amount of time missed. Maybe have the next treatment in January 2016 and then a follow up during the All Star break during the 2016 season? They could repeat this each season thereafter and hardly any time would be missed...

[jerichoholicninja]

According to the article, the treatment was first performed on October 2nd, 2014. If it has a shelf life of 6 to 7 months, it can be managed much more properly going forward to limit the amount of time missed. Maybe have the next treatment in January 2016 and then a follow up during the All Star break during the 2016 season? They could repeat this each season thereafter and hardly any time would be missed...

 

I would think if it works every time, figuring out the timing to have the least impact on games missed shouldn't be that hard. Once before spring training and then once around the all star break.

[pacopete4]

According to the article, the treatment was first performed on October 2nd, 2014. If it has a shelf life of 6 to 7 months, it can be managed much more properly going forward to limit the amount of time missed. Maybe have the next treatment in January 2016 and then a follow up during the All Star break during the 2016 season? They could repeat this each season thereafter and hardly any time would be missed...

 

I would think if it works every time, figuring out the timing to have the least impact on games missed shouldn't be that hard. Once before spring training and then once around the all star break.

 

And if this team or whoever he's traded to ever makes the playoffs, it always seems as though there is time at the end of the season either using Sept. call ups or before the series actually starts.

[JJHardy7]

I understand Cruz gets compared to Braun a lot...just remember Cruz 'only' signed a 4-year $57M deal. He is older (which has some risk), but he is getting more than $40M less guaranteed than Braun.

 

This has probably been asked...but has any other baseball player ever had this injury?

[The stache]

At what point do we stop saying Braun has "had a nice little run", and open our eyes to the fact that he's getting closer to the offensive force he used to be?

 

Hitting is down across the Majors. I look at my fantasy baseball team, and the majority of my starters are below a 3.00 ERA. I've got some guys hitting for big power, but most of them aren't hitting for average.

 

And Ryan Braun? The last 41 games (39 starts) dating back to April 20th, his numbers:

 

http://imageshack.com/a/img661/9580/iJ0qDp.jpg

 

From 2007 to 2012, Brauny had a career .943 OPS. The last 1/4 season, he's had a .923 OPS. Not a "little run". A full quarter of a Major League baseball season. Between 2007 and 2012, he had a .568 SLG. He's slugged .574 over the last 41 games. Now, his average is down, but it's slowly creeping back up. That BAbip is still only .260. His career BAbip is .334. His BAbip from 2007 to 2012 was .340.

 

His BAbip was at .275 at the end of April, and for the season, it's actually dropped since then to .269. Yet his production has skyrocketed.

 

Meaning? He's among the league leaders in HR and RBI, and near the very top since the start of May, and the balls he's not hitting out are still not falling in anywhere near as often as they used to. Some of that is due to things like adjusted batters box discipline--what he's swinging at, and where he's driving those balls. But a big chunk of that is due to luck. He hits the ball---hard---yet, thus far, the balls have not been falling for him.

 

This is going to change, guys. His BAbip should normalize over the remainder of the season. I expect by then, his BAbip will be in the mid .280s, or slightly higher.

 

I think by the end of the year, Braun will be hitting in the high .280s, low .290s.

 

His walk rate is 9.5% (20 in 210 plate appearances). In 2011, his MVP season, he walked 58 times in 629 plate appearances, a 9.2%. In 2012, when I felt he should have won a second MVP (and would have if the Brewers had made the playoffs, and if not for the PED test), Braun walked a career high 63 times, but in 677 plate appearances. A 9.3% walk rate.

 

He's walking as often as he ever has. His power is where it was at his very best. The only drop off in his offensive game right now is his batting average, and his overall extra base hits. But the doubles are starting to come. Remember, he had no doubles in the first 27 games of the season. He got another one tonight, making it 7 in the last 25 games. That would be a pace for over 42 doubles over an entire season.

 

So, he's getting the extra base hits. He's walking at the same rate. He's hitting for his normal power.

 

It seems to me only his BAbip is off, and a large part of that is luck. Braun is too good a hitter to have that stay down for long. With his power clearly back, with the extra base hits coming, those singles are going to start falling in at a higher rate, too.

 

To hypothesize that Ryan Braun is not the .900 OPS guy he used to be couldn't be further from the truth. I see nothing from my statistical analysis that would support this conjecture.

[superfly]

At what point do we stop saying Braun has "had a nice little run", and open our eyes to the fact that he's getting closer to the offensive force he used to be?

 

To hypothesize that Ryan Braun is not the .900 OPS guy he used to be couldn't be further from the truth. I see nothing from my statistical analysis that would support this conjecture.

 

To suggest that hypocrisy would put to bed a pretty large topic on this site. Folks don't want to accept Braun is coming back to normal, it's much easier in life to blame and hate on something when things are going bad than it is to do the opposite.

 

Ryan Braun is not why this team is losing, and if he really is back it kind of shoots the whole 3-4 year rebuild idea (again, another huge point of controversy here), and perhaps shortens it to a 1-2 year. This is from a realistic Brewers organization standpoint, not from an armchair "blow it up and rebuild" standpoint which this site has.

[The stache]

I think change in leadership (ie at the GM position) is needed, and a new group of scouts and coaches need to be brought in. But at the Major League level, we're not that far off from being a good team again (maybe not great, but competitive). Braun is producing at a pretty awesome clip right now. I think anybody on this forum would take a .285 35 home run 110 RBI, 20 stolen base season from him, and that's very possible.

 

We have two other guys that have been MVP candidates within the last year in Lucroy and Gomez. We have a star catcher and center fielder. We have a shortstop that is starting to come into his own. Segura has been on fire. Will he keep that up? Only time will tell if he's taken that next step. But it's clear that he can still be the player he was in his first year in Milwaukee, or fairly close to it. It's amazing what he can do when he doesn't have his son's health weighing his every thought down. I know he is still grieving, and I feel terribly for him. Losing a child is something no parent should have to go through, especially one so young. But while he is still dealing with the pain, he has put himself together to the point where he is a good shortstop, and his arrow is pointing up.

 

We need to cut some dead weight. No more spending tens of millions on thirty plus pitchers. If we're going to trade for pitching, I would much rather it be for pitchers who have potential, and are still in the first few years of their careers. They are less expensive, and have more tread on the tires. These are the kinds of pitchers the Braves, and A's, and Giants, and Rays seem to have in great supply.

 

 

To suggest that hypocrisy would put to bed a pretty large topic on this site. Folks don't want to accept Braun is coming back to normal, it's much easier in life to blame and hate on something when things are going bad than it is to do the opposite.

 

Ryan Braun is not why this team is losing, and if he really is back it kind of shoots the whole 3-4 year rebuild idea (again, another huge point of controversy here), and perhaps shortens it to a 1-2 year. This is from a realistic Brewers organization standpoint, not from an armchair "blow it up and rebuild" standpoint which this site has.

[Nottso]

Some people are making mountains out of molehills. Even the thread title is a bit misleading. Braun's thumb isn't what I would call being "worked on." When I see "worked on" I think scalpels and sutures. Relatively speaking, Cryoablation is an extremely minor procedure as is Radiofrequency Ablation. The only difference is that one uses extreme cold (Cryo) while the other uses heat (Radiofrequency) to kill off/destroy nerves or nerve endings.

 

Much like Epidural anti-inflammatory steroid injections, needles are inserted to very precise locations with the help of medical imaging. When the needles are in the proper locations, instead of injecting anti-inflammatory steroids, heat (or in this case, cold) is applied, destroying the targeted nerves. Often, over time, some or all of the nerves will grow back, requiring the procedure to be repeated.

 

My wife recently had Radiofrequency Ablation in her lower back and if I had as many needles sticking out of me as I've had stuck in me, I'd look like a freaking porcupine. This really isn't a big deal.

[monty57]

The last 1/4 season, he's had a .923 OPS. Not a "little run".

 

I have/had concerns about his thumb, but I've been a believer that if the thumb is healthy, he's still a good hitter. I've felt all along that it was the thumb that was his problem, not PED use (or lack thereof). My belief has been that because of he's past the normal "prime" years, he'll probably settle in around the mid-to-high .800 OPS range.

 

That said, 1/4 of a season is a small sample. I personally believe that he will be good as long as he can stay healthy, but most MLB players can be really good over 1/4 season. It will take longer than that to "prove" the naysayers wrong.

 

Relatively speaking, Cryoablation is an extremely minor procedure

 

I admittedly know little about this, and I hope it's something that will work with no diminishing results and no adverse effects. Then, we'll only have a few annual missed days for the thumb procedure to add to the annual missed time to oblique strains, so he should be good for 130-140 games/year.

[Nottso]

Results should never be diminishing. If anything, results should accrue (for lack of a better term).

 

I would guess that even 3 or 4 days missed would be due to travel and/or bruising to surrounding tissue from the needle insertion.

[The stache]

Funny, I always thought that 31 was a player's prime years.

[logan82]

31 is the back end of prime/start of decline. 28 is the middle of prime.

[TheCrew07]

Funny, I always thought that 31 was a player's prime years.

 

The statistical average was 27-29 back when I cared enough to read more on Sabermetrics than I do now. Maybe that's changed over the last 5-10 years as offense has declined, I haven't kept up.

[logan82]

If anything prime would be younger now that the game is "clean."