2015-05-21 Brewers (Garza) at Braves (Teherán), 6:10 PM CDT (Brewers lose 10-1, Will Smith ejected)

[brewmann04]

BA even is saying that this team is not good can't get away from these bad Innings.

But games like this makes it easy to see that the brewers need to be sellers.

[AKCheesehead]

It is really amazing what a coincidental sequel this game is of last year's. 364 days later, Thursday night, Turner Field, Garza starting, and a big 7th inning that blew the game was sparked by Gonzalez holding Smith to a technicality of the rules. Recurring nightmare?

[brewcrewdue80]

Can the Kinztler experiment end any day now? Broxton is better than him and he shouldn't be pitching anymore in the Majors with his blowups. There's gotta be someone in AAA worthy to take both of their places and get their shot. Wooten+ someone. Pena? Goforth? What are we doing not playing these guys at this point?

[dlk9s]

This is on top of Gonzalez pulling that crap last year when he wouldn't let Smith warm up. I think Smith just hates Gonzalez for that, and this was just one more thing on top of that.

 

And somehow, I have been at BOTH games. The only two games I have been to in the past two seasons, at that. My wife even asked me tonight if these long delays happen every game. No, honey, just the games WE go to.

 

That's one thing that sucks about being at the game - we had no idea what was going on. I figured it had something to do with Smith doing something to the ball, as it looked like the umps were checking him, but it was very confusing.

 

I don't normally leave games early, but it was actually chilly out tonight and once the game got to 3-1, I knew it was over, so I made my family happy and said we could go. By the time I took my son to the restroom and exited the stadium, it was 8-1.

[wildcat2237]

I have to believe this is a fairly common occurrence, just most pitchers do it more discreetly.

 

Agreed. What I don't understand is why Smith was cussing out the Braves' dugout. He cheated. He should be mad at himself. They saw something and it was confirmed to be illegal by the umpires. What were the Braves supposed to do? Let him use pine tar to gain an advantage on their hitters?

 

Because as stated above, a lot of pitchers do it. So it falls under gamesmanship. It would be like running through traffic to tell a cop someone was jay walking.

 

 

When I was in the minor's 9 out of 10 guys used something. As is noted here: http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/11/reminder-almost-every-pitchers-uses-some-sort-of-goo-to-enhance-grip-andor-doctor-pitches/

 

I put this nasty hair gel on my forehead and lower scalp, and then when I took my cap off I'd wipe my brow and get some. This is it here: http://www.familyotc.com/Monkey-Brains-Super-Sticky-Gel-12-oz-p/cd4449062.htm. I know for a fact Tom Wilhelmson still uses it today, and thats where I got the idea from.

 

I would be very surprised if a couple braves dont take balls in the ear hole after Gonzalez pulled crap like this for the second straight year.

[WinkelsasVsSoriano]

I guess I didn't really know it was still that prevalent in the game, but thanks for the posters who corrected me. Here's what Smith had to say about it: "It was chilly and kind of windy. I had sunscreen rosin on my arm. Just forgot to wipe it off before I went out and pitched."

[WinkelsasVsSoriano]

I could believe that, especially if he never actually used it during the game (which I can't tell from the broadcast since they don't keep the camera on Will at all times). The fact that it was so obviously there makes me think that he really may have just forgotten about it. I'm curious, though - if he wasn't using it during the game, what would he have it for? Would he just be something he does during his warmups? Or is this a case of being sloppy and not hiding it well?

 

I feel like these are kind of stupid questions, but I guess I've never really paid too much attention to how many pitchers do similar things.

[lcbj68c]

I could believe that, especially if he never actually used it during the game (which I can't tell from the broadcast since they don't keep the camera on Will at all times). The fact that it was so obviously there makes me think that he really may have just forgotten about it. I'm curious, though - if he wasn't using it during the game, what would he have it for? Would he just be something he does during his warmups? Or is this a case of being sloppy and not hiding it well?

 

I feel like these are kind of stupid questions, but I guess I've never really paid too much attention to how many pitchers do similar things.

 

Where it was positioned...non throwing throwing wrist/forearm (easily accessible by the pitching hand) and only about 2'' x 1'' spread, there is no doubt it was intentional. No way that he was using it for any other reason than an advantage while griping and delivering the baseball. It wasn't there because it was sheltering that small section of arm from the sun/wind. Whether he uses it during warmups and truly forgot to wipe it off, I'm doubtful. These are professional athletes. I'm an amatuer golfer, but I don't forget to take a penalty stroke when I hit a ball in the water....you think he "forgot" to clean an illegal substance off his arm before going in the game? If the substance was part of his routine in the bullpen, did it suddenly stop becoming part of his routine once warming up the mound? No way.

[rondoman]

The fact it was so obvious you gotta call him out. I mean cmon man make some attempt to not have a brownish shiny liquid right on your arm lol.

[Pugger]

I have to believe this is a fairly common occurrence, just most pitchers do it more discreetly.

 

Agreed. What I don't understand is why Smith was cussing out the Braves' dugout. He cheated. He should be mad at himself. They saw something and it was confirmed to be illegal by the umpires. What were the Braves supposed to do? Let him use pine tar or whatever it was to gain an advantage on their hitters?

 

He was probably pissed that they called him on it. But honestly, have it out there on your forearm for all the world to see, Smith? I sure don't want to be known as cheaters. Of course if we are cheating we aren't very good at it if you look at our record.

[Baldkin]

I could believe that, especially if he never actually used it during the game (which I can't tell from the broadcast since they don't keep the camera on Will at all times). The fact that it was so obviously there makes me think that he really may have just forgotten about it. I'm curious, though - if he wasn't using it during the game, what would he have it for? Would he just be something he does during his warmups? Or is this a case of being sloppy and not hiding it well?

 

I feel like these are kind of stupid questions, but I guess I've never really paid too much attention to how many pitchers do similar things.

 

Where it was positioned...non throwing throwing wrist/forearm (easily accessible by the pitching hand) and only about 2'' x 1'' spread, there is no doubt it was intentional. No way that he was using it for any other reason than an advantage while griping and delivering the baseball. It wasn't there because it was sheltering that small section of arm from the sun/wind. Whether he uses it during warmups and truly forgot to wipe it off, I'm doubtful. These are professional athletes. I'm an amatuer golfer, but I don't forget to take a penalty stroke when I hit a ball in the water....you think he "forgot" to clean an illegal substance off his arm before going in the game? If the substance was part of his routine in the bullpen, did it suddenly stop becoming part of his routine once warming up the mound? No way.

 

It's rosin. The same thing that you can get from the bag behind the mound. When you're warming up in the bullpen it makes perfect sense (when how quickly you can warm up is an issue) to dab a bit on your arm so you don't have to walk over, grab the bag, shake it on your hand between pitches. Just a quick touch and go to the next pitch.

[tmwiese55]

[sarcasm]it doesn't matter. Braun, I mean Smith is a cheater, a liar, and a coward.[/sarcasm]

[dacbrewers]

Why is he throwing a bullpen with it on? Sounds like he wipes 70% off and then allows the other 30% to remain when he pitches. You dont need a lot of it when you only throw an inning. Is his stuff better with it? Yes Is it illegal? Yes ...going to cost him 10 days pay.

[LouisEly]

What is telling is that after the game Freddie Freeman said that he wants pitchers to use it so that they don't get beaned with a 95 mph fastball. It gives better control, and believe it or not, batters want better control. That's why Counsell after the game made the comment about three Brewers getting hit in the head. It gives you a better grip which gives you more control. When the ball slips out of your hand just a touch is when Gomez and Segura get drilled in the head.

[tmwiese55]

All he had to do was wipe it so it wasn't obvious and he'd have been fine. would still have a little stickiness on the arm to help with the grip but not a blatant breaking of the rules like it was. Just like he said after, he just forgot to wipe it.

 

Remember sheets back in the day wiping sweat off his forearm and then on the ball. He didn't even hide it and noone did anything about it. He'd even where long sleeves when it was 100 degrees to get more sweat.

[jerichoholicninja]

What is telling is that after the game Freddie Freeman said that he wants pitchers to use it so that they don't get beaned with a 95 mph fastball. It gives better control, and believe it or not, batters want better control. That's why Counsell after the game made the comment about three Brewers getting hit in the head. It gives you a better grip which gives you more control. When the ball slips out of your hand just a touch is when Gomez and Segura get drilled in the head.

 

I'm not sure how much of the "better grip" thing is real or just mental. Having pitched 8 years in Wisconsin spring weather in high school and college, I've never felt like I didn't have a grip on the ball. For me, having a sticky spot on it would make me less confident in where it was going because the ball is going to feel different coming off of your finger tips.

[dlk9s]

I never had any problems with balls being slippery, either. My thing was the seams. I liked, nice, mid-height seems. Too low and I had trouble gripping the ball, too high and it hurt.

 

But hey, I didn't pitch in the pros, so perhaps it's different.

[xisxisxis]

I don't know why Counsell didnt ask for the balls to be weighed. I could clearly see on TV that the balls appeared to be deflated. No wonder smith needed extra help gripping the balls..... @deflategate2