2B Scooter Gennett to AAA; Corey Knebel to MLB

[bill hAll Star]

I am OK with maybe one of Segura/Sardinas/Gomez (throw in Scooter) sticking in the future and I'd lean towards Sardinas if he is really the versatile defensive wizard that he is. Unless Segura really turns it around, you're talking about a bunch of guys that can't hit in your infield. Scooter can maybe be a flawed/decent hitter that is pretty good against RHP, but he doesn't have the positional flexibility or defensive prowess of the rest.

 

Otherwise, while those guys can keep the seats warm and maybe bring back value in trades, I am not going to be watching them on the edge of my seat to see if they are the 3B, 2B, or SS of the future, because I know that none of them will be able to hit (again, unless Segura does a 180) ever. Gomez or Sardinas could be a decent super-utility player or maybe fill one slot.

[djoctagone]

post #25 was quite confusing.

 

did it have to be? viewtopic.php?f=73&t=29061

[trwi7]

post #25 was quite confusing.

 

did it have to be? viewtopic.php?f=73&t=29061

 

What an odd complaint. I think everyone knew who he was referring to since the thread is about one player and he was pretty clearly talking about that player.

[JohnBriggs12]

Maybe Segura's trade value would improve at 2B? He's just okay defensively at SS, maybe he would be amazing at 2B? He definitely would hit like one of the better 2B's.

 

It would also improve if he could hit for an OPS over .700, which he hasn't done since his hot first half of his rookie year.

 

If he is a "hot commodity" now, it is because other teams see the team control and the potential. If we hold onto him for another year or two, and he proves himself to be a mid-.600 OPS guy with limited team control remaining, I don't think we'd get much in trade. Even if he hits better, once the team control goes away, we probably wouldn't get more than we could get today. With Sardinas, Gomez, Herrera and eventually Arcia all waiting in the wings, I think we're taking a big chance if we do not trade Segura by this offseason. Assuming, of course that the market for him is as hot as it is rumored.

 

In regards to Gennett, this is sad, but not totally surprising as he was never considered that great a prospect. I hope he can figure it out, as he should be a nice guy to have around while he's young and inexpensive during the probable "lean years" ahead, and he's certainly an easy guy to root for.

 

 

Scooter is not the only young player who's struggled mightily this season. Who would have thought Christian Yelich would be hitting .178/.268/.233 in Miami? I thought he was headed to stardom and I know I wasn't alone. You often really don't know about a guy until they've been through adversity. It's a lot different struggling at the major league level than it is in the minors. Brewers were patient with Scooter to a degree and said the right things, but players know they if they aren't producing they will find themselves benched/sent down and they add pressure internally. Time for him to clear his head and just go play. His talent is still there.

[bill hAll Star]

Yelich has been dealing with back issues this year (only 80 plate appearances) and is a guy that put up an .860 minors OPS (not in the inflated PCL) at age 21. He's another guy that may never hit lefties that well, but he'll be a plus hitter against righties. I think his issue is more of dealing with a back injury and just getting more time to straighten out his sample.

 

I think Scooter probably does deserve to straighten out the sample, but he was a low .700s guy in his mid-20s.

 

I know you aren't comparing the two players and realize that Yelich > Scooter on the whole, but I think Yelich just needs a few healthy weeks to straighten the numbers out. Scooter may be a flawed player that if he can't get over his weakness, may not ever be functional. I don't think it's a "pressure" thing. How the heck do you know if Scooter or Yelich are pressing? Seems to be an excuse that is used for a sample against a bunch of tough pitchers or if the ball is just not finding green grass.

[Boomer5]

Maybe Segura's trade value would improve at 2B? He's just okay defensively at SS, maybe he would be amazing at 2B? He definitely would hit like one of the better 2B's.

 

It would also improve if he could hit for an OPS over .700, which he hasn't done since his hot first half of his rookie year.

 

If he is a "hot commodity" now, it is because other teams see the team control and the potential. If we hold onto him for another year or two, and he proves himself to be a mid-.600 OPS guy with limited team control remaining, I don't think we'd get much in trade. Even if he hits better, once the team control goes away, we probably wouldn't get more than we could get today. With Sardinas, Gomez, Herrera and eventually Arcia all waiting in the wings, I think we're taking a big chance if we do not trade Segura by this offseason. Assuming, of course that the market for him is as hot as it is rumored.

 

In regards to Gennett, this is sad, but not totally surprising as he was never considered that great a prospect. I hope he can figure it out, as he should be a nice guy to have around while he's young and inexpensive during the probable "lean years" ahead, and he's certainly an easy guy to root for.

 

 

Scooter is not the only young player who's struggled mightily this season. Who would have thought Christian Yelich would be hitting .178/.268/.233 in Miami? I thought he was headed to stardom and I know I wasn't alone. You often really don't know about a guy until they've been through adversity. It's a lot different struggling at the major league level than it is in the minors. Brewers were patient with Scooter to a degree and said the right things, but players know they if they aren't producing they will find themselves benched/sent down and they add pressure internally. Time for him to clear his head and just go play. His talent is still there.

 

He was a 828 OPS guy first half, 621 OPS second half. I think he has been the Brewers "clock about to strike midnight" radar for awhile.

 

He is an easy guy to cheer for, so lets hope he gets it back.

[danzig6767]

Scooter has only drawn two walks in 65 at bats. In 718 at total big league bats so far, he only drew 34 walks. He should watch film of Counsell at the plate. Craig had zero power, but fabulous plate discipline.

[monty57]

Coming up, everyone said Gennett made good contact, but didn't take any walks and had little power. In the majors, pitchers will dine on players who will swing at pitches out of the strike zone. I'd guess that if he started taking a few of those pitches, he would start getting better pitches to hit. The Brewers should probably give him an Oakland A's style ultimatum that he will not be called back up until he starts showing more plate discipline.

 

From Fangraphs:

 

Current Baselines: The major league average O-Swing% changes slightly from year to year. The chart below shows the major league averages from 2005-2008 for both batters and pitchers.

 

2002 18.1%

2003 22.2%

2004 16.6%

2005 20.3%

2006 23.5%

2007 25.0%

2008 25.4%

 

Scooter Gennett:

 

O-swing (contact): 2013 43.1% (73.8%), 2014 40.1% (75&), 2015 48.1% (73%)

Z-swing (contact): 2013 71.5% (92%), 2014 73.3% (92.6%), 2015 68.9% (91.6%)

 

First pitch strike: 2013 66.1%, 2014 57.6%, 2015 55.1%

 

He swings at a ridiculously high percentage of pitches out of the zone, and he makes contact with them (kind of like Yuni B). Pitchers seem to realize this, and have stopped throwing as many first pitch strikes. Get him to swing at a bad pitch and hit it weakly somewhere for an out.

 

I think this is a lot more of pitchers figuring out how to get him out more than him "pressing." He just needs to learn to take some pitches. If he can't do that, he may have a short career.

[Boomer5]

Scooter has only drawn two walks in 65 at bats. In 718 at total big league bats so far, he only drew 34 walks. He should watch film of Counsell at the plate. Craig had zero power, but fabulous plate discipline.

 

I am hoping this was a RR culture that can be fixed in AAA. I just noticed the Brewers are 3rd in the league in strike outs, 26th in walks. Thats some plate approach.

[trwi7]

Scooter has only drawn two walks in 65 at bats. In 718 at total big league bats so far, he only drew 34 walks. He should watch film of Counsell at the plate. Craig had zero power, but fabulous plate discipline.

 

I am hoping this was a RR culture that can be fixed in AAA. I just noticed the Brewers are 3rd in the league in strike outs, 26th in walks. Thats some plate approach.

 

Gennett has always been that type of hitter. It had nothing to do with Roenicke.

[monty57]

Scooter has only drawn two walks in 65 at bats. In 718 at total big league bats so far, he only drew 34 walks. He should watch film of Counsell at the plate. Craig had zero power, but fabulous plate discipline.

 

I am hoping this was a RR culture that can be fixed in AAA. I just noticed the Brewers are 3rd in the league in strike outs, 26th in walks. Thats some plate approach.

 

Gennett has always been that type of hitter. It had nothing to do with Roenicke.

 

Probably more to do with the type of players the Brewers draft and develop, and their desire to get big bats to the majors without forcing (or allowing) the player to improve other areas of their game (like plate discipline or defense) before moving up.

[Thurston Fluff]

post #25 was quite confusing.

 

did it have to be? viewtopic.php?f=73&t=29061

 

What an odd complaint. I think everyone knew who he was referring to since the thread is about one player and he was pretty clearly talking about that player.

 

Actually when I reread it I get what he meant. The meaning was what I meant but a lot of repeated words makes things tough to follow. Something I have been accused of before. I blame reading too much philosophy. They all do that.

[logan82]

Most of our players have little plate discipline. Been gradually getting worse for years. Nothing to do with the manager. It's the team that was put together.

[Thurston Fluff]

Most of our players have little plate discipline. Been gradually getting worse for years. Nothing to do with the manager. It's the team that was put together.

 

This is a chicken or egg thing IMHO. Is it the players we get or is it a lack of properly developing them? I honestly don't know.

[3and2Fastball]

Scooter's hitting mechanics are completely messed up. He had a beautiful swing last year. Can't help but wonder if Darnell Coles is one of those "swing down at the ball" hitting guys in MLB who have absolutely no clue as to how elite hitters actually hit (you'd be astonished how many former pro players & current pro hitting instructors think like that/teach like that. They literally have no understanding of how explain the way they actually swung a bat when they were a player.)

 

Scooter looks like a classic case of someone screwed up his swing

[logan82]

I don't know either. I think it comes down to lack of elite talent. Plate discipline could be what seperates good from great.

[homer]

Most of our players have little plate discipline. Been gradually getting worse for years. Nothing to do with the manager. It's the team that was put together.

 

This is a chicken or egg thing IMHO. Is it the players we get or is it a lack of properly developing them? I honestly don't know.

 

 

I remember Melvin talking about a minimum walk:AB ratio for minor leaguers....like they want at least 1 BB for every 10 AB or something like that. So my guess is these guys are just free swingers by nature. They have drafted guys with good eyes. Better hitters probably just have better eyes for pitches.