Lind to Pirates?

[trwi7]

What I do hate however is how much they are OVERvalued by a good portion of the posters on this website.

 

I feel prospects are undervalued by a good portion of posters on this website. For years there have been a ton of posters that have just shot down any thought of trading guys while their value was high for prospects that could help in the future with the idea that we were "close" and just needed "a few pieces" to push us over the edge to contender status.

 

And now look where the team is.

 

What else is more valuable to a small market franchise that can't outspend pretty much any other team than young, talented, controllable players? That should be incredibly valuable to the Brewers and anyone who is a fan of the Brewers.

[superfly]

What I do hate however is how much they are OVERvalued by a good portion of the posters on this website.

 

I feel prospects are undervalued by a good portion of posters on this website. For years there have been a ton of posters that have just shot down any thought of trading guys while their value was high for prospects that could help in the future with the idea that we were "close" and just needed "a few pieces" to push us over the edge to contender status.

 

And now look where the team is.

 

What else is more valuable to a small market franchise that can't outspend pretty much any other team than young, talented, controllable players? That should be incredibly valuable to the Brewers and anyone who is a fan of the Brewers.

 

Gomez needs to go, that is undoubtedly a smart thing to do. Parra can cover CF just fine. I don't think Lind needs to go, he is precisely what this team has needed for years (and needs more of).

 

The problem lies within how this roster has been constructed the past several years, and the philosophy of the offense. If we had more balance L/R and decreased the focus on home runs, we would be more competitive. The freakin team was stacked with RH hitters in a RH heavy pitching division for years, and we relied on the long ball. Sounds super smart to me! Platoons with cheap/midrange guys (Joyce/Davis, Lind/Lucroy, etc etc) would allow us to spend more on pitching.

 

We don't need to destroy the roster...we need to be smarter about how we construct things. Trading Gomez will fetch great prospects that we desperately need, and it will be another step towards deleveraging ourselves from RH heavy swing out of his shoes hitters. Lind on the other hand, I don't want traded unless we blow it up, and even then I don't know if I want him gone.

[TooLiveBrew]

What I do hate however is how much they are OVERvalued by a good portion of the posters on this website.

 

I feel prospects are undervalued by a good portion of posters on this website. For years there have been a ton of posters that have just shot down any thought of trading guys while their value was high for prospects that could help in the future with the idea that we were "close" and just needed "a few pieces" to push us over the edge to contender status.

 

And now look where the team is.

 

What else is more valuable to a small market franchise that can't outspend pretty much any other team than young, talented, controllable players? That should be incredibly valuable to the Brewers and anyone who is a fan of the Brewers.

 

Gomez needs to go, that is undoubtedly a smart thing to do. Parra can cover CF just fine. I don't think Lind needs to go, he is precisely what this team has needed for years (and needs more of).

 

The problem lies within how this roster has been constructed the past several years, and the philosophy of the offense. If we had more balance L/R and decreased the focus on home runs, we would be more competitive. The freakin team was stacked with RH hitters in a RH heavy pitching division for years, and we relied on the long ball. Sounds super smart to me! Platoons with cheap/midrange guys (Joyce/Davis, Lind/Lucroy, etc etc) would allow us to spend more on pitching.

 

We don't need to destroy the roster...we need to be smarter about how we construct things. Trading Gomez will fetch great prospects that we desperately need, and it will be another step towards deleveraging ourselves from RH heavy swing out of his shoes hitters. Lind on the other hand, I don't want traded unless we blow it up, and even then I don't know if I want him gone.

Lind is only under contract through 2016. 2017 will be his age-33 season. What exactly is accomplished by holding onto him?

 

You acknowledge that the best all-around player in Gomez should be traded, which obviously means a significant step back in ability to contend. You also agree that the club needs to retool around younger players, who inevitably will take at least a couple seasons to find their footing at the MLB level.

 

So do you propose keeping Lind & then losing him to free agency? Attempting to extend an injury-prone first baseman into his mid- or late-30s at somewhere around $10M/yr? To say Gomez should be traded, but not Lind... that's a tough one for me to wrap my head around.

 

I completely agree that Lind is the type of hitter the Brewers should be looking to clone... or maybe more realistically, develop. He has been a breath of fresh Febreze in an otherwise manure-scented season. But to say that Lind needs to be retained so he can be lost to free agency before any rebuilding or retooling would be complete, primarily because you're frustrated with how the team was constructed in the past, seems to be lacking some logic.

 

I think Lind, as long as he stays healthy, will be a pretty valuable trade chip around the deadline this season. I'd bet that the Brewers could blow away a return of Marco Estrada, and get at least one very legit young player for him. There will be a lot of clubs that can use a high-OBP, high-SLG bat with a good approach for the 1B or DH spots. The Brewers would be way off-base to view him as a centerpiece, and I say that as a fan that really admires him as a hitter.

[trwi7]

Everyone should be on the block. There are no untouchables on a team this bad. Obviously guys like Lucroy are going to cost more than guys like Lohse but we can't be saying no this player isn't available to any team. It all depends on the offer. Every player should be available all the time because you never know what team is going to offer something ridiculously good.

 

I don't understand your thinking that Parra can cover CF in a Gomez trade. Parra should be gone too. He's a free agent at the end of the year, why not get value for him now?

 

Lohse

Garza

Braun

Lucroy

Gomez

Lind

Ramirez

Fiers

Parra

Maldonado

Any bullpen arm

Any bench player

 

That should be the list of players available at minimum. Obviously you don't have to trade all of them but secondary pieces and players that aren't likely to be part of our next contending team should be available.

[SoupTown]

What is interesting to me is a throw away from Toronto is BY FAR the best professional batter on our team. It tells you a LOT about the players we have, we develop, and we value. They just aint much good, hey.

[monty57]

What is interesting to me is a throw away from Toronto is BY FAR the best professional batter on our team. It tells you a LOT about the players we have, we develop, and we value. They just aint much good, hey.

 

Melvin definitely has a soft spot for hitters with big power and little discipline, and pitchers with big arms and no control. Defense... what's that?

 

I feel your pain, and agree that we should target a more diverse group of players. I enjoy watching Lind play, but as TLB said, he's only under contract through next season, so he should be traded before leaving for free agency This doesn't have to be now, it could be in the offseason, but we probably shouldn't wait until next season's trade deadline, as he would lose value with less "team control" remaining, and he does have a history of injury, so trading him when he's healthy and productive seems to be the best idea.

 

I don't want to derail this too much, as it's a thread specifically about Lind, but if the team decides to sell, I don't really want a free-agent-to-be like Parra covering CF. I'd rather trade Parra as well and let young players get a shot. You might as well get something out of the season, and getting some experience for some of your prospects and seeing how they respond to their chance in the majors is probably the best we will be able to hope for. Plus, we'll get something back for Parra, and as much as it hurts to think along this line, losing a few more games will get us a better draft position.

[bill hAll Star]

What is interesting to me is a throw away from Toronto is BY FAR the best professional batter on our team. It tells you a LOT about the players we have, we develop, and we value. They just aint much good, hey.

 

I take a different approach to this (by the way, on the whole, most offenses in the NL would kill to have hitters like Lucroy, Gomez, Braun (maybe)).

 

We are a small market team. I agree that I want to draft and develop the heck out of this thing, but this Lind move was one of the shrewd ones that is one a small market team should be making. Lind is an Oakland-esque hitter that was undervalued (I don't know why Toronto made the trade when they knew his platoon value) and it is something that should be used to build the team.

 

Best hitter this year? I guess you have a point there that they should draft and develop a superstar or some very good players (they have Luc and Gomez plus assumed they'd have an elite Braun) and Lind should be a complementary piece, but Melvin pulling off a heist like he did gave me confidence that he actually knew how to run this thing.

[SRB]

What is interesting to me is a throw away from Toronto is BY FAR the best professional batter on our team. It tells you a LOT about the players we have, we develop, and we value. They just aint much good, hey.

 

Before we even traded for him the stats made clear that Lind was one of the best hitters vs RHP in the game, I don't think that's a knock on our players.

[monty57]

I think he was talking about the approach at the plate, and that he would like to see more hitters with his approach. The Brewers under Melvin have produced guys who put up good numbers, but they aren't necessarily the most disciplined bunch.

[reillymcshane]

Lind came to Milwaukee with several question marks - bad back, questionable defense, platoon issues, declining power, erratic performance, plus he's at an age (31) where a decline wouldn't be a shock.

 

Still, it was pretty amazing that the best thing Toronto could get was Marco Estrada.

 

I think Lind was seen mostly as a DH by teams. To top it off, was probably seen as an erratic DH-only player. Many teams have been going away from DH-only type players. They value flexibility. These kinds of players just aren't that appealing to many clubs.

 

I also think his health issues over the last few years turn people off. Guys that have lingering health problems scare off clubs. Teams want reliability - the more you can predict, the better they like it. To constantly wonder if a player is going to be available is not what a club wants.

 

It's all lucky for us. As someone pointed out, this is the kind of move that can really pay off for a smaller market club. Find decent players that for, whatever reason, a club doesn't want.

[pacopete4]

Lind came to Milwaukee with several question marks - bad back, questionable defense, platoon issues, declining power, erratic performance, plus he's at an age (31) where a decline wouldn't be a shock.

 

Still, it was pretty amazing that the best thing Toronto could get was Marco Estrada.

 

I think Lind was seen mostly as a DH by teams. To top it off, was probably seen as an erratic DH-only player. Many teams have been going away from DH-only type players. They value flexibility. These kinds of players just aren't that appealing to many clubs.

 

I also think his health issues over the last few years turn people off. Guys that have lingering health problems scare off clubs. Teams want reliability - the more you can predict, the better they like it. To constantly wonder if a player is going to be available is not what a club wants.

 

It's all lucky for us. As someone pointed out, this is the kind of move that can really pay off for a smaller market club. Find decent players that for, whatever reason, a club doesn't want.

 

 

It seems as though he enjoys Milwaukee too. He's been a bright spot in that dugout when they put the camera in there and he's joking around, smiling. Granted he's been smoking the ball but it's just nice to see a guy enjoying the game of baseball. It's really too bad he wasn't 25-26 and we would have a 1B for the future.

[bill hAll Star]

I think you guys (and the front office) need to shake off this idea of plugging a single player into a position for X amount of years, though.

 

In Lind's case, given his contract and age, yeah, there may be no reason to keep him...but if the Brewers were competing, his age/salary wouldn't bother me at all.

 

Yeah, that's I'd want to do with many positions on the field, but platoons are just fine in 2015. It's not a huge problem to have. Winning teams use them all the time now. If the Brewers had built a solid roster/pitching staff, this would be an excellent "cherry on top" move. Would it be better to have a 25 year old 1B with nearly even splits? Sure. I just think that it would be great if Doug made more shrewd moves like this. This is how Oakland has been killing it the past few years. The Rays use plenty of platoons.

 

Also, while Lind did have the injury/defense issues, I would not describe his hitting as erratic as of late. He seems to have figured things out from a patience standpoint about 3 years ago and since then he has been an incredible hitter against RHP.

 

I would love to do what the Rays and Athletics have done (in slightly different ways) the past few years. 8-10 MLB-caliber, cheap starting pitchers in the majors/AAA (3-4 of them being really good at that point in their careers). A stable of replacement-level hitters sitting in the minors. A Kiermaier or a Vogt (hitting way above replacement-value this year now) will do the trick. Lefties you can bring up in case of injury and eventually use as replacements when you can't find a fill for a position. Top it off with getting undervalued guys like Lind to fill out your roster and there you go.

[reillymcshane]

I think there's absolutely no reason to keep Adam Lind. He's been a great story, but move him while his value his high. Milwaukee isn't going to be a good club in 2015-16. So there's no point to keeping Linda. Beyond that, he's a FA, and it would be foolish to sign him to any kind of extension (not that anyone is suggesting that).

 

Sell him while his value is high. He's healthy, hitting for power, hitting both lefties and righties, playing the field on a regular basis - couldn't ask for much more.

 

If this club in playoff contention you keep the guy - but it's not - and won't be anytime soon. Deal Lind as soon as you can get a fair return.

[bill hAll Star]

At this point of course there is no reason to keep Lind, I agree. It was a great acquisition, though, and now he'll net more than "Marco Estrada."

[pacopete4]

At this point of course there is no reason to keep Lind, I agree. It was a great acquisition, though, and now he'll net more than "Marco Estrada."

 

Yeah, the Melvin "haters" will have to suck it up on this one and give credit, where credit is due. Heck of a trade. Now Melvin needs to complete the transaction by flipping Lind for useful pieces of the future.

[brewcrewdue80]

Lind is a should be trade. We have Jason Rogers/Matt Clark and are bailing out on the 2015 season. There's no need to keep him. Reasons are exactly why Toronto traded him away. His cost, his injury history(I want to say Toronto fans were commenting good luck with 70games missed. thank you for Estrada.)

 

He's doing everything that you hope he'd do in a sell situation. You cross your fingers he remains healthy with this production to trade him away before he goes down to a long DL stint. What Cost Milw Estrada, has the looks of bringing back a top 75prospect type value at minimum in return.

[pacopete4]

Is Lind a guy we hold onto this year, hoping he has a big year and stays healthy which hopefully improves what we would get for him? Seems like it could be worth the risk to see if he can stay healthy for a whole year.

[TheCrew07]

Is Lind a guy we hold onto this year, hoping he has a big year and stays healthy which hopefully improves what we would get for him? Seems like it could be worth the risk to see if he can stay healthy for a whole year.

 

Except that by then he only has a year left on his contract... he's raking, he's healthy, and he has almost 2 full years left today. With dearth of good 1B around baseball these days I don't think his value would be higher than it is now.

 

When trading anyone my answer is always the same, you trade them when you can get the best possible deal for them. If that's this season... fine, the off season... fine, if he's still on the team come next year I'll be pissed.

 

If he had 3 years of team control remaining I'd feel differently, but for the most part I'm looking to move away from players over 30.

[LouisEly]

Unfortunately as bad as 1B was league-wide last year, it is good this year. Lots of guys off to hot starts, so I don't think there is much demand for Lind right now. Best bets I think are going to be the Angels (if Cron or Pujols continues to stink), the Padres (if Alonso comes back to career norms), and maybe the Tigers (if Martinez continues to stink). But I don't think any of those teams is in any hurry right now, possibly except the Angels. Otherwise it would likely have to be an injury to Teixeira, Cabrera, Gonzalez, or Pujols.

[ewitkows]

Seattle sure could use him.

[nate82]

Seattle sure could use him.

 

The Mariners still have Montero in AAA for 1B and he has been playing fairly well in AAA so far this year. Montero would actually be the person I would target in a Lind trade to the Mariners but I don't think they would trade Montero for Lind and the Brewers would have to add another more significant piece to get Montero. If the Mariners believe in Peterson over Montero he may become available but I still believe Montero is going to cost a little bit more than Lind.

 

At best with Seattle for a Lind trade you are probably looking at 1B/3B Patrick Kivlehan or LHP Tyler Olson.

[superfly]

Seattle sure could use him.

 

The Mariners still have Montero in AAA for 1B and he has been playing fairly well in AAA so far this year. Montero would actually be the person I would target in a Lind trade to the Mariners but I don't think they would trade Montero for Lind and the Brewers would have to add another more significant piece to get Montero. If the Mariners believe in Peterson over Montero he may become available but I still believe Montero is going to cost a little bit more than Lind.

 

At best with Seattle for a Lind trade you are probably looking at 1B/3B Patrick Kivlehan or LHP Tyler Olson.

 

Jesus Montero? Last I heard that name he was fat and the team couldn't stand him. Wouldn't surprise me if they secretly wanted him gone.

[bill hAll Star]

He lost the weight and is hitting fairly well but given his age (mid 20s) and history, I'd like to go younger with less bust potential.

[nate82]

 

Jesus Montero? Last I heard that name he was fat and the team couldn't stand him. Wouldn't surprise me if they secretly wanted him gone.

 

[sarcasm]I guess this qualifies as being fat[/sarcasm]

 

 

http://newscater.com/jesus-montero-reports-to-mariners-camp-in-shape/

 

 

He lost the weight and is hitting fairly well but given his age (mid 20s) and history, I'd like to go younger with less bust potential.

 

I am not sure you are going to get anything better than Montero for Lind. Actually Montero for Lind would be a steal by the Brewers. The Brewers should really only be getting either a AAAA player or with someone with a lot of baggage in the low minors. The Krod for Delmonico trade is what should be expected for Lind.

[superfly]

 

Jesus Montero? Last I heard that name he was fat and the team couldn't stand him. Wouldn't surprise me if they secretly wanted him gone.

 

[sarcasm]I guess this qualifies as being fat[/sarcasm]

 

By Mike Oz

February 21, 2014 2:38 PM

But since Montero arrived in Seattle, it's been disappointment after disappointment. That culminated this week when — according to Ryan Divish of the Seattle Times — Montero arrived at Mariners camp 40 pounds heavier than his target weight.

 

What's more? Montero is coming off a 2013 season that ended with a PED suspension as part of MLB's Biogenesis scandal. A number of players are trying to make amends this season because of that, but Montero thus far has flopped the hardest.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/jesus-montero-arrives-at-mariners-camp-40-pounds-overweight-after-ped-suspension-193833974.html