Ron Roenicke relieved of managerial duties (Craig Counsell named new manager, 3 yr contract)

[JohnBriggs12]

The hangover from last year's collapse has a lot to do with the awful start this year. This should have happened in October. Roenicke is a nice man, and knows baseball, but he lacks leadership skills and when things went south under his tenure, he couldn't get his team to fight it's way out of it. Yesterday was a good example of lack of leadership. He should never have left it up to Segura about staying in the game. You don't leave that to the player who was just hit in the head. It appears Gomez stepped up and convinced Segura to come out.

 

Like the Counsell selection. He's in the mold of Matheny.

[3and2Fastball]

Yeah, that's what we need in baseball. More stupid, macho idiots trying to hurt each other.

 

Jean Segura waves hello. I would imagine that he might have some interesting things to say about playing for manager who allows others teams to constantly pitch further & further inside with no fear of retribution.

 

Honestly I am somewhat stunned that so many here, who are otherwise so incredibly intelligent about Baseball, don't understand just how important this particular topic is at the professional Baseball level.

[logan82]

Intentionally hurting people is stupid.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Intentionally hurting people is stupid.

 

Many times this.

 

For all the things I can't stand about Roenicke, the one thing I appreciated was that he refused to get embroiled in idiotic beanball wars with ass-hats like LaRussa or Gibson.

[3and2Fastball]

Intentionally hurting people is stupid.

 

I don't want to side track this thread by delving too deeply into this topic, although it certainly does fall into the category of "reasons why Roenicke failed".

 

Read the book "Throwback" by Jason Kendall. Please

[torts]

can we start using CCR for Craig Counsell Rage? I am not sure Craig has any rage, he seems like a younger looking Ron in terms of that fire in the belly type yelling stuff, but I have high hopes for Craiggers.

[Patrick425]

I like the move. Always liked Counsell. Not sure why people keep bringing up his "poor" playing day stats. Who cares? There is a long history of MLB managers that didn't put up great stats during their playing days, including Ron Gardenhire (who definitely proved that career playing stats don't matter). And, for what it's worth, Counsell did play a fairly big role in 2 game 7 WS wins.

 

Also, I get the questioning of a multi-year contract for someone who has never managed before, but other than that, I'm not at all concerned about him not having any experience. Every great manager in the history of baseball did not have any experience at the beginning of their managerial careers.

[torts]

I like the move. Always liked Counsell. Not sure why people keep bringing up his "poor" playing day stats. Who cares? There is a long history of MLB managers that didn't put up great stats during their playing days, including Ron Gardenhire (who definitely proved that career playing stats don't matter). And, for what it's worth, Counsell did play a fairly big role in 2 game 7 WS wins.

 

Also, I get the questioning of a multi-year contract for someone who has never managed before, but other than that, I'm not at all concerned about him not having any experience. Every great manager in the history of baseball did not have any experience at the beginning of their managerial careers.

 

Know who else was pretty bad at baseball for 13 years? Mike Matheny, and he's already taken the devil to the promiseland.

[3and2Fastball]

can we start using CCR for Craig Counsell Rage? I am not sure Craig has any rage, he seems like a younger looking Ron in terms of that fire in the belly type yelling stuff, but I have high hopes for Craiggers.

 

A quick Google search for "Counsell charges the mound", "Counsell ejected" or "Counsell argues with ump" reveals zero, zip, nada.

 

In fact, somewhat sadly (to me), Counsell ranks 81st All-Time on this list of the most MLB games played without ever being ejected

 

http://thecardinalnationblog.com/2015/02/04/banks-musial-mcgee-among-never-ejected-mlbers/

[Boomer5]

This is pretty typical "You cant fire 25 players, so you fire the manager move" that is pure panic. I thought RR was a solid baseball man. Yeah he made some odd moves but all managers do over the course of a season.

 

Im sure CC will have a better record, I mean, he has to right?

[Ennder]

This is the 3rd year in a row that a Roenicke team has been derailed by one just awful streak they couldn't get out of so I totally understand letting him go. I don't see any reason to think Counsell is qualified to coach a major league team though so I really hate the hire. At least it is early in a throw away season so it isn't like he can really do any damage either.

[Oldcity]

He passes the grit test, but he isn't a former catcher. Mixed emotions.

[Boomer5]

This is the 3rd year in a row that a Roenicke team has been derailed by one just awful streak they couldn't get out of so I totally understand letting him go. I don't see any reason to think Counsell is qualified to coach a major league team though so I really hate the hire. At least it is early in a throw away season so it isn't like he can really do any damage either.

 

This new era of former players with no managerial experience is all the rage. Maybe it will work for us??

[pacopete4]

He passes the grit test, but he isn't a former catcher. Mixed emotions.

 

Should've made Lucroy our manager. Hopefully he'll soon be our former catcher.

[JohnBriggs12]

Managing isn't rocket science. I'm more concerned with leadership skills and getting players to perform at their best. Counsell doesn't have the stench of the last 100 games hanging over him. I believe he's ready for the job. This team needed a generational change.

[JackNicholson1974]

The fact that the trend is to hire former gritty major leaguers as managers, with no experience, is further proof that managers are close to irrelevant in baseball. It wont matter.

[fondybrewfan]

Really didn't see the firing coming in the first place and then to hire Counsell who has 0 past management experience is also really out of the box.

 

Weird timing considering the Brewers were finally starting to play better but I guess it probably was inevitable so you get it over with. The replacement is what gets me; I don't really understand it. Melvin must have just loved him in his front office role and probably was considering this for a while

[Pugger]

I don't understand the infatuation with Counsell either. Guy was a horrific example of how to bat, seems pretty arrogant, and the crutch of "he is one of us" is used too much.

 

I was kinda hoping they would go outside the organization for a real change.

[Pugger]

The hangover from last year's collapse has a lot to do with the awful start this year. This should have happened in October. Roenicke is a nice man, and knows baseball, but he lacks leadership skills and when things went south under his tenure, he couldn't get his team to fight it's way out of it. Yesterday was a good example of lack of leadership. He should never have left it up to Segura about staying in the game. You don't leave that to the player who was just hit in the head. It appears Gomez stepped up and convinced Segura to come out.

 

Like the Counsell selection. He's in the mold of Matheny.

 

We hope...

[cnycerveceros]

I don't know as much about this as others on this board, but I also wonder how relevant a manager is, and in particular whether or not prior experience matters very much. Certainly one can learn how to manage personalities, but I'd think a career as a player might give you some of those same skills. As far as baseball decisions go, so much of that now is predetermined via analytics that it's almost like pushing buttons. Or, you go old school and it's about 'bunting them over' etc. I watch a lot of minor league ball, and I don't think managing down there is all that relatable to managing in MLB. So, in the end, where does somebody get relevant experience, do you want to hire someone who failed elsewhere? We did the bench coach thing, and it only worked so well.

 

So, I say give Counsell a fair shake. Most of a season to show what he's got and then reevaluate. That said, I think hiring from inside (like this) is kind of crummy.

[Pugger]

Yeah, that's what we need in baseball. More stupid, macho idiots trying to hurt each other.

 

Jean Segura waves hello. I would imagine that he might have some interesting things to say about playing for manager who allows others teams to constantly pitch further & further inside with no fear of retribution.

 

Honestly I am somewhat stunned that so many here, who are otherwise so incredibly intelligent about Baseball, don't understand just how important this particular topic is at the professional Baseball level.

 

I don't believe for one moment that was intentional at all. You could see the reaction of ALL of the players to that - on both sides.

[SRB]

This is a rebuilding move. My impression is that Counsell's strengths will be in working with young players and developing a cohesive clubhouse (much like Yost). I think strategically he will probably be in the "old school"/tradition/dumb mold.

[TURBO]

Shrug.

 

Not his fault that the players haven't been able to hit most of the season. Or pitch.

 

I absolutely hate rationale of this kind. That has nothing to do with it! Everyone knows Ron Roenicke isnt a motivator, hes not a guy to light a fire under your ass, hes got a horrible philosophy on how to play the game of baseball, and he's not going to make you afraid of making an ill-advised mistake because he wants aggressiveness no matter how stupid it is. He's a bad manager because his philosophy teaches aggression yet he doesnt have the balls to to get PO'd at a guy when he does something stupid because it would only contradict himself. I hope, like the Bucks, its someone the players will listen to and respect.

 

 

So how did they ever win 96 games with him?

 

They won 96 games in spite of him, not because of him....Glad for the change, it was long overdue...

[homer]

 

 

So how did they ever win 96 games with him?

 

They won 96 games in spite of him, not because of him....Glad for the change, it was long overdue...

 

 

Agreed. Again, roster matters more than manager.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Counsell mastered the art of maximizing return on almost no talent, so he should be a great fit for this team.