Ron Roenicke relieved of managerial duties (Craig Counsell named new manager, 3 yr contract)

[BarneyStinston]

Heck, Counsell as manager is equivalent to Yuniesky Betancourt as my hitting coach, and Jeff Suppan as my pitching coach.

[JohnBriggs12]

I'll be interested to see where Gomez bats tonight. Will it be status quo lineup or will the new, inexperienced manager, come with a "fresh" idea and see what happens.

 

Did you hear Counsell? He said the changes he has in store will be for the most part behind the scenes. Roenicke was fired because he wasn't getting the best out of his players. It's incredibly telling when the guy performing the best relative to expectations is Lind who hasn't been around a Roenicke clubhouse prior to this year. I completely agree with the comments he made about lineups and pitching changes being overrated. It's something for us fans to talk about, but it wasn't the lineup or pitching decisions that got Roenicke fired. It was his inability to get players performing to their abilities. That's all preparation, motivation and tone setting behind the scenes.

[Pugger]

The problems with this organization go much farther up the chain than who the manager is, this constantly shuffling of the coaching deck leads to instability. There are very few successful programs at any level of sport in business who have consistent turnover.

 

Exactly. I posted that exact same point a few pages back. If players know the manager isn't going to be the scape goat they may find themselves being held more accountable. Stability is one ingredient necessary for a manager to be able to address the actual problems with players.

 

I don't think it is about hurting each other, I think it is more about protecting your teammates, and sending messages... I don't want guys getting head hunted, but I do want guys getting hit in the leg or butt to send a message that if you come after my guy, I'm coming after yours.

 

I have a funny feeling hitting someone for hitting Segura last night would have lead to more players being hit later in the season. Not to mention fines and suspensions. My guess is teams like the Cards under LaRussa ended up with more players hit on their team because they are always doing the tit for tat crap.

 

Like I said a couple pages back - that pitcher did NOT want to hit Segura like that. Everybody got shook up about it. You can tell when someone is head hunting and when it is an accident.

[Pugger]

Managerial debut:

 

Kershaw vs. Lohse

 

Ouch.

 

Let's hope Lohse pitches tonight like his last outing.

[bjkrautk]

It looks they got Counsell as manager for a 3 year deal... https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=Todd_Rosiak

 

3-year deal is a bit of a surprise to me; I assumed he'd get the "Interim" tag, and have the option of moving back into the front office at year's end.

[3and2Fastball]

Just a gut feeling but I think Counsell will do well as a Manager

 

I believe that he understands that he is going to oversee a rebuild. I think he will hold players accountable and will be an upgrade in terms of in-game strategy from Roenicke

[markedman5]

Tom ‏@Haudricourt 22m22 minutes ago

I will be very surprised if the hiring of Craig Counsell as #Brewers manager is not first step in general overhaul of team.

[AZBrewCrew]

Does Counsell get his #30 jersey back?

[WV Brew]

It looks they got Counsell as manager for a 3 year deal... https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=Todd_Rosiak

 

3-year deal is a bit of a surprise to me; I assumed he'd get the "Interim" tag, and have the option of moving back into the front office at year's end.

 

 

Doug said he didn't believe in interim managers at the press conference.

[Ennder]

Funny thing is if the bats don't go ice cold to finish last year we make the playoffs and suddenly the organization is not the worst in baseball like people want to make it out to be. They put a playoff roster on the field, the team tanked due to a bunch of nagging little injuries late in the year.

 

As for the Marcum thing, there were no good options at all. Gallardo had pitched poorly in Sept and would have to go on short rest which has never treated him well or you had Marcum who wasn't pitching well or a bullpen that would have struggled to get through a game since it wasn't rested.

[Craigilicious]

Doug said he didn't believe in interim managers at the press conference.

 

"Since when?" -- Dale Sveum

[homer]

Funny thing is if the bats don't go ice cold to finish last year we make the playoffs and suddenly the organization is not the worst in baseball like people want to make it out to be. They put a playoff roster on the field, the team tanked due to a bunch of nagging little injuries late in the year.

 

As for the Marcum thing, there were no good options at all. Gallardo had pitched poorly in Sept and would have to go on short rest which has never treated him well or you had Marcum who wasn't pitching well or a bullpen that would have struggled to get through a game since it wasn't rested.

 

 

And players this year will improve to the mean and Counsell will look like a genius for "getting them to play their best".

[topper09er]

Doug said he didn't believe in interim managers at the press conference.

 

"Since when?" -- Dale Sveum

 

That was a MA move, not Melvin

[Oldcity]

So was this.

[pacopete4]

I'll be interested to see where Gomez bats tonight. Will it be status quo lineup or will the new, inexperienced manager, come with a "fresh" idea and see what happens.

 

Did you hear Counsell? He said the changes he has in store will be for the most part behind the scenes. Roenicke was fired because he wasn't getting the best out of his players. It's incredibly telling when the guy performing the best relative to expectations is Lind who hasn't been around a Roenicke clubhouse prior to this year. I completely agree with the comments he made about lineups and pitching changes being overrated. It's something for us fans to talk about, but it wasn't the lineup or pitching decisions that got Roenicke fired. It was his inability to get players performing to their abilities. That's all preparation, motivation and tone setting behind the scenes.

 

No, unfortunately I can only get away from work a couple minutes at a time. Thanks for sharing that with me though. Interesting...

[TheCrew07]

Funny thing is if the bats don't go ice cold to finish last year we make the playoffs and suddenly the organization is not the worst in baseball like people want to make it out to be.

 

Hyperbole... the overwhelming sentiment is that the Brewers are stuck in the middle, around .500. Furthermore if the Brewers don't over perform their talent in April they aren't in position to make the playoffs either. Take away both extremes of the season and you're left with a .500ish ball club, same as they should have been this year.

 

I've said many times that Melvin isn't a bad GM, he's just average, which means he's not good enough to win consistently in a place like Milwaukee, and he hasn't.

 

Like it or not Milwaukee is the smallest market in the game and since revenue streams are not equal, the Brewers don't have the resources to operate the way much of the competition does, so our GM being average simply isn't good enough. Coupled with a meddling owner who appears to be more concerned with public sentiment and ticket sales rather than any long term strategy built around a draft and develop philosophy we aren't in a good position. Finally as the Pirates and Cubs continue ascend and the Cards appear to have enough internal help coming in the foreseeable future it will be an uphill climb just to finish 3rd within our division.

 

Brewers have just been getting older, which means a steady decline in performance and health should be expected. They haven't been unlucky, professional sports is a young man's game, this was to be expected, and is the primary reason I continually harp on turning over the roster a couple of a players at a time (cycling talent).

[dlk9s]

also, reading the tweets of the presser makes me REALLY happy for Craiggers. Home town guy gets to manager the team he grew up with? I mean, thats pretty awesome.

It's amazing. I mean, hell, I get misty sometimes just dreaming about what it would have been like to have been drafted by the Brewers. I can't imagine how Craig must feel right now (aside from some sadness that it required RR to get fired for it to happen).

 

It's only a press conference, but so far, I like what CC said.

[jerichoholicninja]

Based off of what Doug and Craig said it sounds like there were some issues behind the scenes with Ron.

[MrTPlush]

3 year deal isn't that surprising to me. I doubt Counsell wanted to come in for less than a season...I think he wants a real shot to manage. Then you might as well tack on the 3rd year because managers almost never go through lame duck seasons. I think they are 100% committed to give Counsell a shot this year and next year...after that evaluate.

 

I know people are mad Roenicke got that extra year despite last years collapse, but that is just how manager contracts work in baseball.

[Patrick425]

Heck, Counsell as manager is equivalent to Yuniesky Betancourt as my hitting coach, and Jeff Suppan as my pitching coach.

 

Because......???

[MrTPlush]

Based off of what Doug and Craig said it sounds like there were some issues behind the scenes with Ron.

 

Have you ever listened to his post game press conferences? He just doesn't seems like a good clubhouse guy. Always mumbling, "Well there is always tomorrow." or "We just need to ride it out."

 

I think the reason 2011 worked so well is for the fact the team came together on their own...that team was just so unique. Now all I see is slumps and no fire.

[CheezWizHed]

When people talk about a manager not making much difference, I think they are talking mostly about in-game management. At least I hope so. Because the club- house atmosphere and general work-ethic can be greatly influenced by the manager. I think we all have examples of that we can think of in the "real world" where people go through brick walls for their manager or (like Dilbert's PHB) the manager torpedoes the working environment.

 

Not sure if RR fit into the second case, but if yes, those issues normally don't show up for a year or two.

 

Coupled with a meddling owner who appears to be more concerned with public sentiment and ticket sales rather than any long term strategy built around a draft and develop philosophy we aren't in a good position.

 

I have to disagree here. Yes, we did sign Lohse and lose a 1st round pick and traded for CC, Grienke, and Marcom. But nearly all of those look like good choices in the end on ascending teams. And couple that with how we are going after the Latin signings recently, it seems like the develop strategy is pretty well in place.

[Ennder]

I've said many times that Melvin isn't a bad GM, he's just average, which means he's not good enough to win consistently in a place like Milwaukee, and he hasn't.

 

I think he was above average when he started here but is below average now because so many good young GMs have entered the league.

[3and2Fastball]

I agree with the sentiment that a general acknowledgement (not publicly but within the front office) of a need for a change in direction and general rebuild has already been in place. The signing of Gilbert Lara, the Gallardo trade, last year's draft of mostly high upside players are all signs of that.....

 

whether they'll be willing to go all in on a rebuild (which I think they need to do) and trade Lucroy/Lohse/Gomez/Lind remains to be seen

[homer]

The Brewers have turned over the roster to younger guys. If Davis, Gennett and Segura were all studs Melvin would look like a genius. The problem is that they haven't drafted well the last five years, and they traded away guys like Cain, Brantley, and Odorizzi without having replacements of equal quality. He's also had a propensity to hang onto guys for one year longer than he should. Wolf immediately comes to mind on that one. Better to trade a guy a year too early than a year too late. And he should always be getting prospect nuggets in every trade. I still cringe at the name "Kevin Mench".