Open for business (part 1)

[Invader3K]

Just got an update, that says the Brewers will not trade Lucroy.

 

Source??

 

From glancing at Twitter, it looks like Buster Olney is saying the Brewers "aren't willing to trade Lucroy."

 

I wonder if that means they are firm in not trading him, or if they've received some middling calls and offers on him. From an ownership perspective, I could see them wanting to keep him around as the "face of the franchise" even if they do decide to do a full on rebuild. He's under a team friendly deal for two more seasons (2017 is a club option).

[stoutdude04]

Just got an update, that says the Brewers will not trade Lucroy.

 

Source??

 

Popped up quick on my scoremobile app. Sorry, didn't have time to read into it.

[MrTPlush]

Just got an update, that says the Brewers will not trade Lucroy.

 

Source??

 

From glancing at Twitter, it looks like Buster Olney is saying the Brewers "aren't willing to trade Lucroy."

 

I wonder if that means they are firm in not trading him, or if they've received some middling calls and offers on him. From an ownership perspective, I could see them wanting to keep him around as the "face of the franchise" even if they do decide to do a full on rebuild. He's under a team friendly deal for two more seasons (2017 is a club option).

 

Seeing he is on the DL and May just started I seriously doubt names were exchanged.

[monty57]

Just got an update, that says the Brewers will not trade Lucroy.

 

The "between the lines" on that is that the team may be willing to trade Gomez.

 

From a "this team needs a complete rebuild" mindset, trading Lucroy would make sense, but they do still want to sell some tickets and Lucroy is the "face of the franchise." Plus, with his "this team needs a kick in the butt" comment, I could see him becoming the team leader under Counsell, especially if some other big personalities (Gomez) are not around. And there is the "veteran catcher helping a young pitching staff" thing.

 

The Brewers do not think they have a chance to compete.

 

Everything they're saying looks like that's the case. However, that inner skeptic keeps telling me not to believe it until it happens :-)

[reillymcshane]

Just got an update, that says the Brewers will not trade Lucroy.

 

The "between the lines" on that is that the team may be willing to trade Gomez.

 

From a "this team needs a complete rebuild" mindset, trading Lucroy would make sense, but they do still want to sell some tickets and Lucroy is the "face of the franchise." Plus, with his "this team needs a kick in the butt" comment, I could see him becoming the team leader under Counsell, especially if some other big personalities (Gomez) are not around. And there is the "veteran catcher helping a young pitching staff" thing.

 

Also, the club doesn't really have a long term replacement for Luc. You could use Maldonado, but he's really been erratic as a hitter. No one else in the system profiles as a stud catcher at this time. I could easily see the team extending Luc for a few more years - like you said, have him be the team leader, mentor the young guys, etc.

 

Still, he would fetch a huge return in a trade. If the team made some moves and went into a rebuild, you hate to waste Luc's prime years in a rebuilding phase.

[JohnBriggs12]

I think all you guys are wrong for interpreting a few pundits comments as they are going to deal off players in the next few weeks.

 

The facts are they are 26 games into a 162 game season and they stumbled badly out of the gate. You can't base an entire season on the first 20 games. Like it or not part of that was the hangover from the final 5 weeks of 2014. Something was definitely amiss in the leadership and that should have been addressed in October. But it wasn't. This team was just playing awful baseball.

 

No team with the veteran presence of the Brewers is going to throw in the towel the first week of May no matter how bad they've looked to this point. There's just too many games left and too many things can happen.

 

All Melvin has acknowledged is that he's open to moving players in an attempt to improve the long term outlook should it come to that when teams start looking for help usually just before the All Star break. It's kind of understood isn't it? I know some of you will be terribly disappointed but if this team crawls it's way back to .500 by the 4th of July, they will be in that large group of teams within touch of wild card and not only that, they will be a team with some momentum too. It's hard for any owner to forego a shot at a playoff berth, much less with a team that's battled back from a horrendous start.

 

Odds are that they will play better than they have the next couple months but still may be a bit far out of it. That's probably what is most likely. In that case they'll definitely shop the veterans on their final years: Lohse, Ramirez, Broxton, Parra and they could shop a Garza or a K-Rod too if the demand is strong. They also would strongly consider dealing Segura because of the depth behind him. But I don't see them surrendering 2016 under any circumstances, which is why I don't see them trading Lucroy, Gomez or Lind. They don't have a replacements ready for those guys and they'll go into the winter with money to spend.

 

As for starters who'll fill in if Lohse and Garza are dealt. I wouldn't rule out a Brooks Hall or Tyler Wagner jumping 2 levels. Both seem on pace to be promoted to AAA by midseason, and if they shine in a handful of starts in AAA too, they pass up Jungmann.

[fondybrewfan]

I forgot how incredibly team friendly that Lucroy deal really is. While it would be tough to part with him; the haul you could get for a 28 year old complete catcher in his prime making less than $5 Million through 2017 would be absolutely massive. Trading just Gomez and Lucroy could dramatically turn around this franchise in perhaps a fairly short amount of time if Doug can get some prospects at AA or higher.

 

I wouldn't trade them just to trade them; but the Brewers could have the two most coveted players on the trade market this year.

[pacopete4]

Trading Lucroy and Gomez is the key to any sort of rebuild. If we hold on to them, it isn't a rebuild, its a load back up and try to compete. Either way, have a plan and attack with that plan. If they are going to rebuild, than get as many high ceiling prospects as they can. If they are going to re-tool, then trade a few of the pitchers for some MLB ready guys, sign Zimmerman in the offseason and lets go at it again. Just don't stick in limbo with the franchise. Make a decision and go at it.

[crossface21]

I think they have to look at who do they trust more to pan out in future years: Scooter or Segura. One of them can go. With Acacia seemingly knocking on the door, he's going to be the SS. Either Segura will be moved to 2b and Scooter traded, or Segura traded with Scooter holding down 2b.

[ewitkows]

Or Segura moves to 3rd

[fondybrewfan]

I don't think I would be in favor of that; Segura, Scooter, and Arcia would leave a pretty lacking SLG in the infield. You need SLG from someone out of those three positions.

[MrTPlush]

I don't think people believe they will trade anyone this month...or even June for that matter, but come July guys will be on the move. It would take a massive turnaround to even think about not selling. Just like the Rays last year I don't think they will be willing to gamble on a wildcard play in game in opportunity. Not to mention we have no ace and the odds would be stacked against us quite badly.

[monty57]

I think all you guys are wrong for interpreting a few pundits comments as they are going to deal off players in the next few weeks.

 

The facts are they are 26 games into a 162 game season and they stumbled badly out of the gate. You can't base an entire season on the first 20 games. Like it or not part of that was the hangover from the final 5 weeks of 2014. Something was definitely amiss in the leadership and that should have been addressed in October. But it wasn't. This team was just playing awful baseball.

 

No team with the veteran presence of the Brewers is going to throw in the towel the first week of May no matter how bad they've looked to this point. There's just too many games left and too many things can happen.

 

All Melvin has acknowledged is that he's open to moving players in an attempt to improve the long term outlook should it come to that when teams start looking for help usually just before the All Star break. It's kind of understood isn't it? I know some of you will be terribly disappointed but if this team crawls it's way back to .500 by the 4th of July, they will be in that large group of teams within touch of wild card and not only that, they will be a team with some momentum too. It's hard for any owner to forego a shot at a playoff berth, much less with a team that's battled back from a horrendous start.

 

Odds are that they will play better than they have the next couple months but still may be a bit far out of it. That's probably what is most likely. In that case they'll definitely shop the veterans on their final years: Lohse, Ramirez, Broxton, Parra and they could shop a Garza or a K-Rod too if the demand is strong. They also would strongly consider dealing Segura because of the depth behind him. But I don't see them surrendering 2016 under any circumstances, which is why I don't see them trading Lucroy, Gomez or Lind. They don't have a replacements ready for those guys and they'll go into the winter with money to spend.

 

As for starters who'll fill in if Lohse and Garza are dealt. I wouldn't rule out a Brooks Hall or Tyler Wagner jumping 2 levels. Both seem on pace to be promoted to AAA by midseason, and if they shine in a handful of starts in AAA too, they pass up Jungmann.

 

I think the big reason this is already being discussed is money. Melvin recently had a quote about realizing their window was 2011-2012 and that the longer you wait to "re-tool," the longer it will take to get through the rebuild. This seems to show that Melvin has been telling Attanasio this for a few years. Attanasio probably truly believed he had the makings of one last shot at the playoffs, and was willing to approve a team record payroll to try to make that happen. With this start, ticket sales are almost certain to drop, and Attanasio is likely expecting to lose millions of dollars. He's an investment guy, and he didn't hedge his risk, so his outlet is to sell before the bleeding gets too bad.

 

They could just trade off the guys who will be free agents, and that would save a lot of money (assuming they are tradable), but with Garza's name being thrown around, it makes me really believe Attanasio is finally accepting what Melvin has been telling him. There is no way they would trade Garza if they have plans on "going for it" next year.

 

You could be right. They could go on a winning streak and Attanasio could change his mind, but I think that right now Brewer management is leaning heavily towards selling off in a big way.

[logan82]

Just got an update, that says the Brewers will not trade Lucroy.

 

Source??

 

From glancing at Twitter, it looks like Buster Olney is saying the Brewers "aren't willing to trade Lucroy."

 

I wonder if that means they are firm in not trading him, or if they've received some middling calls and offers on him. From an ownership perspective, I could see them wanting to keep him around as the "face of the franchise" even if they do decide to do a full on rebuild. He's under a team friendly deal for two more seasons (2017 is a club option).

It probably means they already have a trade in place.

[danzig6767]

I forgot how incredibly team friendly that Lucroy deal really is. While it would be tough to part with him; the haul you could get for a 28 year old complete catcher in his prime making less than $5 Million through 2017 would be absolutely massive. Trading just Gomez and Lucroy could dramatically turn around this franchise in perhaps a fairly short amount of time if Doug can get some prospects at AA or higher.

 

I wouldn't trade them just to trade them; but the Brewers could have the two most coveted players on the trade market this year.

There can be a difference between technically not shopping a player or players and refusing to trade a player/players. No question that there are players in baseball that teams won't even ever consider trading. Mike Trout for example.

 

If teams make an offer good enough for Gomez, my guess is that he could be traded. Lucroy has an extra year on his deal though, so the demands which the Brewers could ask for should be higher.

[igor67]

It's far from a guarantee that trading Lucroy and Gomez 'turns things around'. In both cases you need to get one prospect who plays just as well as those 2 players to get back to a .500 talent team. That is no small feat in itself, both players have put up MVP contention quality seasons. To get better you'd need at least one other above average kind of player to make a difference in the quality of the team down the road.

[MrTPlush]

It's far from a guarantee that trading Lucroy and Gomez 'turns things around'. In both cases you need to get one prospect who plays just as well as those 2 players to get back to a .500 talent team. That is no small feat in itself, both players have put up MVP contention quality seasons. To get better you'd need at least one other above average kind of player to make a difference in the quality of the team down the road.

 

They need those players somehow...It doesn't have to be by trading off Lucroy and Gomez. There are so many ways to build a baseball team. Trading Lucroy and Gomez will greatly aid them in turning things around...holding on to them is pointless as far as the future talent of the team goes.

 

Expecting to get future MVP caliber players is a pipe dream.

[reillymcshane]

Prospects being prospects, it's no guarantee that anyone we trade for will equal the contributions of Luc or Gomez. The big issue is the time frame we control Lucroy and Gomez - through 2017 and 2016, respectively. Rebuilding, whether done gradually or quickly, means this team probably isn't very good for a few years. Thus we waste the five years of control we have on these players while they are on losing teams. That's why we should deal them this season - assuming you can get good value.

 

Fangraphs lays out the case for trading Luc - saying most any prospect in baseball could likely be had for him. While that's an exaggeration (after all, some teams are in the same boat as us - they aren't contending for a few years, so why would they trade their prospects), the idea of a Correa or Urias is pretty enticing.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-case-for-trading-jonathan-lucroy/

[MrTPlush]

Prospects being prospects, it's no guarantee that anyone we trade for will equal the contributions of Luc or Gomez. The big issue is the time frame we control Lucroy and Gomez - through 2017 and 2016, respectively. Rebuilding, whether done gradually or quickly, means this team probably isn't very good for a few years. Thus we waste the five years of control we have on these players while they are on losing teams. That's why we should deal them this season - assuming you can get good value.

 

Fangraphs lays out the case for trading Luc - saying most any prospect in baseball could likely be had for him. While that's an exaggeration (after all, some teams are in the same boat as us - they aren't contending for a few years, so why would they trade their prospects), the idea of a Correa or Urias is pretty enticing.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-case-for-trading-jonathan-lucroy/

 

If one of these two guys or similar prospect is offered I can't see how they don't trade Lucroy...especially for Urias.

[TURBO]

The Brewers trade Lucroy, during a season where 4 different Lucroy bobbleheads will be given out?

(T-Rats Dual, Season Ticket Holder, Jedi Luc, and Doubles Record)

 

No possible way...

 

[superfly]

Trading just Gomez and Lucroy could dramatically turn around this franchise in perhaps a fairly short amount of time if Doug can get some prospects at AA or higher.

 

I wouldn't trade them just to trade them; but the Brewers could have the two most coveted players on the trade market this year.

 

 

Thing is, we could actually trade Gomez and continue to pseudo-compete (via a Gold Glove CF in Gerardo Parra) for a playoff spot if the deadline rolls around and we're within striking distance. Is Parra = Gomez? No, but he's a competent fill-in.

 

It's imperative we trade Gomez this season IMO, if we can get a good haul for him I would like us to hang onto Lucroy. There's a ton of money coming off the books at the end of the season and it wouldn't be that hard to field a competitive team in 2016 if constructed right. All these folks calling for 3 year rebuilds are insane IMO, we don't NEED to do that, we just need to organizationally be smarter about how our roster is constructed until the Arcia's of the world are ready.

[MrTPlush]

Trading just Gomez and Lucroy could dramatically turn around this franchise in perhaps a fairly short amount of time if Doug can get some prospects at AA or higher.

 

I wouldn't trade them just to trade them; but the Brewers could have the two most coveted players on the trade market this year.

 

 

Thing is, we could actually trade Gomez and continue to pseudo-compete (via a Gold Glove CF in Gerardo Parra) for a playoff spot if the deadline rolls around and we're within striking distance. Is Parra = Gomez? No, but he's a competent fill-in.

 

It's imperative we trade Gomez this season IMO, if we can get a good haul for him I would like us to hang onto Lucroy. There's a ton of money coming off the books at the end of the season and it wouldn't be that hard to field a competitive team in 2016 if constructed right. All these folks calling for 3 year rebuilds are insane IMO, we don't NEED to do that, we just need to organizationally be smarter about how our roster is constructed until the Arcia's of the world are ready.

 

 

Doug? Mark? Is that you?

 

First of all if we trade Gomez I am pretty sure they are not going to attempt to compete.

 

With that being said you have 3 major hole in my opinion with possibly a forth. Biggest concern is 3B and the lack of options, next is at least one hole in the rotation, and then once again figure out the bullpen .

 

Money or not you would be gambling just like this year...any more gambling and we may be crying for a good 5+ years if it doesn't work.

[superfly]

Trading just Gomez and Lucroy could dramatically turn around this franchise in perhaps a fairly short amount of time if Doug can get some prospects at AA or higher.

 

I wouldn't trade them just to trade them; but the Brewers could have the two most coveted players on the trade market this year.

 

 

Thing is, we could actually trade Gomez and continue to pseudo-compete (via a Gold Glove CF in Gerardo Parra) for a playoff spot if the deadline rolls around and we're within striking distance. Is Parra = Gomez? No, but he's a competent fill-in.

 

It's imperative we trade Gomez this season IMO, if we can get a good haul for him I would like us to hang onto Lucroy. There's a ton of money coming off the books at the end of the season and it wouldn't be that hard to field a competitive team in 2016 if constructed right. All these folks calling for 3 year rebuilds are insane IMO, we don't NEED to do that, we just need to organizationally be smarter about how our roster is constructed until the Arcia's of the world are ready.

 

 

Doug? Mark? Is that you?

 

First of all if we trade Gomez I am pretty sure they are not going to attempt to compete.

 

With that being said you have 3 major hole in my opinion with possibly a forth. Biggest concern is 3B and the lack of options, next is at least one hole in the rotation, and then once again figure out the bullpen .

 

Money or not you would be gambling just like this year...any more gambling and we may be crying for a good 5+ years if it doesn't work.

 

You see, that's just what i'm talking about...such a defeatist attitude. Who is to say these mythical prospects out in the Land of Oz we're ALLEGEDLY going to get actually fix this team? What if they don't....THEN what do we do? It sounds so nice thinking we can just go get ourselves some 20 year olds and then have all-stars in a few years doesn't it? What if we trade Lucroy for someone like Correa, and then he either busts as a prospect or gets in a freak Kendrys Morales-like injury and ruins his career? That would be even worse than playing out Lucroy's contract.

 

Why can't we do what the Red Sox did a couple years ago and sell a bunch of stuff but keep the cornerstones, and then sign smart FA's in the offseason and win 97 games the next year? Sure we don't have unlimited money like they do, but finding guys like Lind is attainable. Deleveraging the home run reliance on offense and upgrading the pitching staff gets us to the same result as a rebuild IMO.

 

I refuse to believe this team is actually going to rebuild until I physically see it happening, so until then I am proceeding under the more likely guise of a "retool."

[TooLiveBrew]

It's not a defeatist attitude any more than your opinion is pie-in-the-sky/best-case wishful thinking. It's a difference of opinion, & using language like "insane", "Land of Oz", & "mythical" doesn't foster productive conversation.

 

Both ends of the spectrum on this topic have merit. And it's certainly not just one poster that's been guilty of hyperbole, condescension, etc. It seems that type of stuff has really been on the uptick here lately, & the essence of the forums at BF is & always has been about being more civil, respectful, & productive than that.

 

When you (anyone, not simply superfly) read a post you disagree with, think about why. Not about how it's insane or stupid or laughable or negative-nancy or any other type of insulting phrase you'd like to call it. Have a discussion. Be respectful to your fellow Brewers fans!

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Trading Lucroy and Gomez is probably the only way they can really shorten the rebuild window. Trading the other pieces will only get them filler. I guess they could move Peralta or Nelson, but they could still be controlled while they are on the upswing if they take their medicine now. With what they have in AA & below, a higher draft position for a few years and a kings ransom for those two, things could be looking up in a few years. We'll see as they get closer to the deadline. I could see them moving Gomez this year along with the vets, then try for an off season blockbuster with Lucroy.