Open for business (part 1)

[paul253]

This franchise cannot and should not so easily dismiss an opportunity, albeit a short term one, that exists for 2016

 

What opportunity? The opportunity to sneak into the playoffs one last time before we fall into an 8 year rebuild project because we have no talent left anywhere in the system? That's not what the let's blow it up crowd wants. The let's blow it up crowd wants to start the rebuild now while we still have players that actually have some trade value.

 

You mention that other entire core other than Ramirez and Lohse are back next year. I wonder though is that really a good thing? This team just a year older? Who is going to play third base? It's not like Ramirez is blocking any top prospects from playing right now. Who is going to replace Lohse? Thornburg? Jungmann? I'm fine with that but those aren't replacements that are going to get us over the top. So we take that money from the contract savings and spend it yet another old, veteran #3-#4 starter and a third basemen? Is that really what you want? Is that what you think is best for the organization?

 

In my opinion it is imperative that we get at least 2 good high ceiling prospects for Gomez this year. You're not going to re-sign him. We're not winning with him. There is no reason to keep him. There is also no reason to hang onto Segura after this season. Assuming he keeps up his decent year, his value is probably as high as it's ever going to be. We already have a young SS to replace him (Sardinas) and we also have two others, including what should be a top 50 prospect in Arcia, that should be ready soon after. Do what they should be doing and recycle the talent. See if you can get some young pitching for him. Or a young third baseman. Lucroy is the one guy I think we should trade but would be ok hanging onto for now. We have no real in house replacements and his contract is still pretty team friendly. But make it known that he can be had for the right price. He might get you more than Gomez. I honestly think by trading those three you can walk away with at least 5 top 100 prospects and probably some more pieces. Couple that with the 15th pick this year and possibly a top 10 pick next year. That is what this organization needs. Not one last shot at a playoff berth with an over the hill team.

[Thurston Fluff]

Just saying the decision to blow it up and build for 3-4 years down the road isn't so easy, and coming to that conclusion based on a year end where Braun was a shell and the first 15 games of this year was a disaster, might not be all that wise.

 

I think there is a difference between going for a total rebuild and changing the dynamics of a team that is too inconsistent as it is built. We can keep some of these guys and go through a mini rebuild, more of a revamp than rebuild really, by trading the likes of Lind, Gomez, Garza, Ramirez and Lohse. If we can flip some of them for a different type of player that would balance out our lineup a bit better we can be competitive sooner than we would be if we did a total rebuild. That route doesn't seem to be getting enough consideration IMHO.

[logan82]

We can keep some of these guys and go through a mini rebuild, more of a revamp than rebuild really, by trading the likes of Lind, Gomez, Garza, Ramirez and Lohse. If we can flip some of them for a different type of player that would balance out our lineup a bit better we can be competitive sooner than we would be if we did a total rebuild. That route doesn't seem to be getting enough consideration IMHO.

By management or posters? It seems to me that is exactly what some posters want.

[nate82]

 

I would hope if a GM calls back and says something like in Atlanta's case, "I know you said Lucroy isn't available but what if we give you Max Fried, Lucas Sims, and Ricardo Sanchez ?" that the Brewers would seriously consider the offer. 2 players with #2 upside and a 3rd with #3 upside is huge for an organization that doesn't really have legitimate #2 starter upside anywhere today. The Brewers have a couple of players with that ceiling, and none above A ball, but the results just haven't come along to the point where I'd comfortably throw that label on them.

 

 

I would prefer something like this in a Lucroy trade with the Braves:

 

Tyrell Jenkins, Dustin Peterson, Alec Gosser and Ozhaino Albies.

[Thurston Fluff]

We can keep some of these guys and go through a mini rebuild, more of a revamp than rebuild really, by trading the likes of Lind, Gomez, Garza, Ramirez and Lohse. If we can flip some of them for a different type of player that would balance out our lineup a bit better we can be competitive sooner than we would be if we did a total rebuild. That route doesn't seem to be getting enough consideration IMHO.

By management or posters? It seems to me that is exactly what some posters want.

 

Not so much here though there seems a lot more in favor of total rebuild than moderate changes here too. In general fans, sports talk shows and new papers never seem to mention a reload vs a rebuild. I hear a lot of how it's time to blow the thing up and start over. Not so much of how to win in the next two years.

[paul253]

I don't listen to much talk radio....I find a lot of the callers to be completely out of touch...but I think the consensus here is to do a moderate reload so we don't have to do a complete rebuild. I think Melvin has missed a lot of opportunities to trade guys at their peak and I don't want to see him do that yet again. I think he should have traded Gomez this past offseason but I definitely think he should be traded now (this season I mean). Let a team make a run with him and keep him another year. You should be able to get two good prospects for him. I think he should trade Segura because, quite honestly, we don't need him. But if you wait too long, until you have a major logjam at SS, teams are going to use that against you. I think you can get could two (not as) good prospects for him as well. Same with Lucroy. You can get quality prospects for him. Make trades that will benefit your team beginning in 2017 when some of your own prospects are going to start making their way up here. Yeah you give up on this year and next year but it's not going to be an 8 year process like it was back when we started drafting guys like Weeks, Fielder and Braun.

[MrTPlush]

Padres eyeballing Sardinas and Fiers is drawing interest too according to Ken Rosenthal.

[pacopete4]

I'd rather ship Segura and keep Sardinas

[brewmann04]

I wonder if they will try to move Segura to either second or third and keep Sardinas @ SS

[MrTPlush]

I wonder if they will try to move Segura to either second or third and keep Sardinas @ SS

 

There was a little speculation by a writer that they could move Segura to 3B next year. Though if Gennett can't figure it out I think move to 2B is more likely.

 

I don't see the point to putting him at 3B. He would kill nearly all his value and isn't like we will be competing. Either keep him up the middle or trade him.

[nate82]

I would try to include Segura or Sardinas in a trade with Garza/Lohse to the Dodgers. The Brewers are not going to get either Seager or Urias but they could get De Leon plus a lot of others from the Dodgers. The Dodgers right now have Rollins at SS and this is his stat line so far this year: .201/.277/.601

 

How long are the Dodgers going to stick with that abysmal production from their starting SS? Sardinas could easily put up that offensive line and bring better defense. Even in a horrible year last year Segura was better than Rollins is this year.

 

I doubt the Brewers would do this but it just makes sense to trade Segura or Sardinas with Garza or Lohse to the Dodgers for some of their extra prospects.

[SoupTown]

Surely we can make a simple trade of one of Segura / Sardinas for some teams AAA or AA third baseman with a similar value to Segura or Sardinas. One of those win/win trades. That would still leave the door open for management to not fold for 2016. Of if the fold for 2016, then can decide if 2017 or 2018 is a realistic year to be good.

 

Let us say we have a new third baseman who really is a third baseman with potential in 2016. I could see the Brewers deciding to go to the free agent route for a big dollar front line starter. Then you suddenly look a possibility if you wear your rose coloured glasses in 2016.

 

In any case, my point is we do not need THREE shortstops. So, surely you can flip one for a third baseman. Because I sure do not see any third baseman in our minors that can be here next year. And I sure dont want a mid hitting short stop playing third base.

[MrTPlush]

I'd rather ship Segura and keep Sardinas

 

I don't if I would. Segura could be a decent 2B, while Sardinas is too much of a light hitter. He really needs that SS defensive value to be valuable to a team. Though I guess something at 2B is better than nothing. So maybe Sardinas and his more years of control become a factor.

 

Because come 2016/2017 whoever is sitting at SS is moving regardless. Seems pretty obvious Arcia is hitting the bigs over at SS.

[SRB]

I'd rather ship Segura and keep Sardinas

 

I don't if I would. Segura could be a decent 2B, while Sardinas is too much of a light hitter. He really needs that SS defensive value to be valuable to a team. Though I guess something at 2B is better than nothing. So maybe Sardinas and his more years of control become a factor.

 

Because come 2016/2017 whoever is sitting at SS is moving regardless. Seems pretty obvious Arcia is hitting the bigs over at SS.

 

Segura can not hit well enough to play anywhere but SS.

[MrTPlush]

I'd rather ship Segura and keep Sardinas

 

I don't if I would. Segura could be a decent 2B, while Sardinas is too much of a light hitter. He really needs that SS defensive value to be valuable to a team. Though I guess something at 2B is better than nothing. So maybe Sardinas and his more years of control become a factor.

 

Because come 2016/2017 whoever is sitting at SS is moving regardless. Seems pretty obvious Arcia is hitting the bigs over at SS.

 

Segura can not hit well enough to play anywhere but SS.

 

He could play 2B if his hitting improved a touch. Will that ever happen?...maybe, maybe not.

 

Maybe trade Segura now and let Sardinas try to prove himself at the MLB level. Then just trade him when Arcia is ready. I just don't think either is really all that attractive to move over to 2B. Either guy would have to hit a good .280/.320 to be even average on the other side.

[MrTPlush]

How long are the Dodgers going to stick with that abysmal production from their starting SS?

 

I doubt the Brewers would do this but it just makes sense to trade Segura or Sardinas with Garza or Lohse to the Dodgers for some of their extra prospects.

 

Seeing that Jimmy Rollins is being paid $11mil and probably a great clubhouse guy all year is very possible.

 

That makes almost too much sense...I think they would prefer Segura though. A little more proven and will make benching Rollins look less bad. That being said I still can't see them benching Rollins. He at least plays some decent defense and the name recognition means something right or wrong.

[umphrey]

In any case, my point is we do not need THREE shortstops. So, surely you can flip one for a third baseman. Because I sure do not see any third baseman in our minors that can be here next year. And I sure dont want a mid hitting short stop playing third base.

 

It would be nice if we had 3 short stops but we have 1 below average SS, 1 utility guy and a prospect on the 2017 track. Hopefully Arcia does well and can push for a 2016 callup but I don't think it's early enough to worry about that. Segura's trade value is probably rising anyway, since he was pretty much worthless last year.

[MrTPlush]

In any case, my point is we do not need THREE shortstops. So, surely you can flip one for a third baseman. Because I sure do not see any third baseman in our minors that can be here next year. And I sure dont want a mid hitting short stop playing third base.

 

It would be nice if we had 3 short stops but we have 1 below average SS, 1 utility guy and a prospect on the 2017 track. Hopefully Arcia does well and can push for a 2016 callup but I don't think it's early enough to worry about that. Segura's trade value is probably rising anyway, since he was pretty much worthless last year.

 

Segura is at least average. He provides some offense and despite the errors is above average on defense. Which in today's time is painfully hard to find. Dodgers and Padres(two big contenders) are getting pathetic performance out of their SS.

 

Sardinas should not be considered a utility guy, it is way to early for that title. He was a Top 10 SS prospect 2 years ago and has yet to get a true chance. He has very good contact skills and very good defense. Still has bright future.

[Funketown]

Segura's been a replacement-level player since 2014. I'm not sure what the trade-market will think of him; he's solid defensively but his bat has been a black-hole for about two calendar years now.

[MrTPlush]

Todd Rosiak of MJS said the Brewers might like to unload Ryan Braun, BUT probably not willing to provide money in any deal.

 

I personally am really skeptical that they really want to trade him, but maybe hurting his marketability and image make him less enticing for the Brewers.

[brewmann04]

We'll Mr Braun is doing his best helping his trade value.

[pacopete4]

Keep Braun. Find pitching.

[superfly]

This pitching staff is downright atrocious.

[MNBrew]

The best the Brewers could do in trading Braun is hope to find someone young who produces like him.... then eventually have to pay the guy a Braun-esque salary to have any chance of retaining him long-term, which sounds totally stupid to me.

 

The offense hasn't been good overall (Scooter, Aramis, Khris Davis, pre-injury Lucroy are all off to poor starts, and GoGo's not exactly a world-beater this year (yet) either), but Braun's finding his swing after 1.5 years of a finally-healed bad thumb (which started before his time on the naughty list) and his overall game looks pretty dang good to me. . . . It's like the Twins with Joe Mauer: like it or not, he's a guy that CAN be MVP like and is paid an elite player's salary (read: king's ransom), so much so that no one else would take him for anything close to his worth AND full contract, plus he's healthy & still young enough (read: not close to ancient), so you might as well figure he's part of the core they're trying to (re-)build around. . . .

 

As noted, the pitching's been the biggest issue and it may take trading an attractive/valuable player or two (Lohse and Gomez come first to mind) to beef up the base of talented young arms. Even Aramis or Neal Cotts could net a low-level B-prospect, which is surely what David Ortiz was when the Twins got him (then known as David Arias) and Joe Mays in exchange for 3B Dave Hollins -- and Ramirez has the far better track record (though with more years on him) than Hollins did at the time of that trade.

[SoupTown]

I am not a Braun supporter AT ALL. But I do not understand the idea of trading him. I think that was just the journos one liner - in the Q&A. If Braun really has come back to his pre-thumb form (let us assume the naughty only helped him a little)... and will be an .850+, fearsome, hitter, then pay him the money. Surely, we need an anchor in the middle of the order in 2017 and 18 and 19 and 20. They dont grow on trees. And who do we project from our minors that can do that.

 

I am disturbed by a paraphrase from Mark post Counsell hiring. He said 'we are currently still in WIN mode'. That irks me. I dont understand why trading Lohse, for example, means 'oh, we dont want to win'. It takes a Peralta injury to give Thornburg a deserved chance. Why oh why does our management equate WIN mode with OLD and EXPENSIVE veterans. Can there not be a 'young and improving and hopeful and still trying to win' mode.