Jonathan Lucroy Trade Challenge

[SRB]

How about this:

Oakland gets:

C/1B Jon Lucroy (MIL)

2B Scooter Gennett (MIL)

C Hank Conger (HOU)

 

Houston gets:

SS/3B Jacob Gatewood (MIL)

1B Ike Davis (OAK)

 

Milwaukee gets:

C Carson Blair (OAK)

2B Colin Walsh (OAK)

SS Carlos Codiera (HOU)

RHP Tim Atherton (OAK)

OF Brett Phillips (HOU)

LHP Josh Hader (HOU)

 

We're trading Lucroy, Gennett and Gatewood, and not getting a single top-100 prospect or major league player in return???

[clancyphile]

How about this:

Oakland gets:

C/1B Jon Lucroy (MIL)

2B Scooter Gennett (MIL)

C Hank Conger (HOU)

 

Houston gets:

SS/3B Jacob Gatewood (MIL)

1B Ike Davis (OAK)

 

Milwaukee gets:

C Carson Blair (OAK)

2B Colin Walsh (OAK)

SS Carlos Codiera (HOU)

RHP Tim Atherton (OAK)

OF Brett Phillips (HOU)

LHP Josh Hader (HOU)

 

We're trading Lucroy, Gennett and Gatewood, and not getting a single top-100 prospect or major league player in return???

 

Blair's a very good catching prospect from Oakland posting a .976 OPS at AA (http://www.baseball-reference.com/route.cgi?player=1&mlb_ID=542942), and Walsh (http://www.baseball-reference.com/route.cgi?player=1&mlb_ID=595023) is a switch-hitting second-baseman who's posting an OPS of .842, Correa's (http://www.baseball-reference.com/route.cgi?player=1&mlb_ID=621043) delivering huge offensive performance at age 20 in AA (I misspelled the name), Atherton (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=athert001tim) and Hader (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=hader-000jos) are posing good numbers so far, and Hader's 21 at AA. Phillips (http://www.baseball-reference.com/route.cgi?player=1&mlb_ID=621433) is putting up some huge numbers as well, and he's 21 at A+.

[MrTPlush]

How about this:

Oakland gets:

C/1B Jon Lucroy (MIL)

2B Scooter Gennett (MIL)

C Hank Conger (HOU)

 

Houston gets:

SS/3B Jacob Gatewood (MIL)

1B Ike Davis (OAK)

 

Milwaukee gets:

C Carson Blair (OAK)

2B Colin Walsh (OAK)

SS Carlos Codiera (HOU)

RHP Tim Atherton (OAK)

OF Brett Phillips (HOU)

LHP Josh Hader (HOU)

 

We're trading Lucroy, Gennett and Gatewood, and not getting a single top-100 prospect or major league player in return???

 

Blair's a very good catching prospect from Oakland posting a .976 OPS at AA (http://www.baseball-reference.com/route.cgi?player=1&mlb_ID=542942), and Walsh (http://www.baseball-reference.com/route.cgi?player=1&mlb_ID=595023) is a switch-hitting second-baseman who's posting an OPS of .842, Correa's (http://www.baseball-reference.com/route.cgi?player=1&mlb_ID=621043) delivering huge offensive performance at age 20 in AA (I misspelled the name), Atherton (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=athert001tim) and Hader (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=hader-000jos) are posing good numbers so far, and Hader's 21 at AA. Phillips (http://www.baseball-reference.com/route.cgi?player=1&mlb_ID=621433) is putting up some huge numbers as well, and he's 21 at A+.

 

I am trying to be as nice as possible...but is this actually serious...?

 

Carson Blair is not a very good catching prospect. He is some scrub the A's picked up in November for organizational filler. The other two A's minor leaguers don't even show up on their Top 30 list either...nor does Codiera for the Astros. The other two at least show up on the Astros top prospects list at #7 and #9.

 

So for Gennett, LUCROY, and Gatewood all we can manage is two so-so prospects and filler?

 

I mean maybe I missed something and apologizes if I did, but this is what I understand from some quick research.

 

EDIT: ALRIGHT I see the misspelling of Correa. That makes that deal make negative sense for the Astros. They get limited value in the deal and give up 3 of their Top 10 prospects with one of them being one of the best prospects in the game. Yikes

[BeerFan]

The A's give up nothing worthwhile in that deal. The only intriguing prospects are coming from the Stros and I highly doubt they'd trade Correa.

 

That being said if we wanted to trade Lucroy the Astros would make a good trade partner. They've got the prospects and having Lucroy would allow them to have Gattis DH and play first

[SRB]

How about this:

Oakland gets:

C/1B Jon Lucroy (MIL)

2B Scooter Gennett (MIL)

C Hank Conger (HOU)

 

Houston gets:

SS/3B Jacob Gatewood (MIL)

1B Ike Davis (OAK)

 

Milwaukee gets:

C Carson Blair (OAK)

2B Colin Walsh (OAK)

SS Carlos Codiera (HOU)

RHP Tim Atherton (OAK)

OF Brett Phillips (HOU)

LHP Josh Hader (HOU)

 

We're trading Lucroy, Gennett and Gatewood, and not getting a single top-100 prospect or major league player in return???

 

Blair's a very good catching prospect from Oakland posting a .976 OPS at AA (http://www.baseball-reference.com/route.cgi?player=1&mlb_ID=542942), and Walsh (http://www.baseball-reference.com/route.cgi?player=1&mlb_ID=595023) is a switch-hitting second-baseman who's posting an OPS of .842, Correa's (http://www.baseball-reference.com/route.cgi?player=1&mlb_ID=621043) delivering huge offensive performance at age 20 in AA (I misspelled the name), Atherton (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=athert001tim) and Hader (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=hader-000jos) are posing good numbers so far, and Hader's 21 at AA. Phillips (http://www.baseball-reference.com/route.cgi?player=1&mlb_ID=621433) is putting up some huge numbers as well, and he's 21 at A+.

 

My mistake, should have noticed. Correa would be great, but that's still a light return for Lucroy and two other nice pieces (Gennett/Gatewood). I think the even bigger flaw though is that Houston would never do that. Why would they give up one of the best prospects in baseball (plus other pieces?) for Jacob Gatewood and a marginal 1B like Ike Davis?

[clancyphile]

 

Blair's a very good catching prospect from Oakland posting a .976 OPS at AA (http://www.baseball-reference.com/route.cgi?player=1&mlb_ID=542942), and Walsh (http://www.baseball-reference.com/route.cgi?player=1&mlb_ID=595023) is a switch-hitting second-baseman who's posting an OPS of .842, Correa's (http://www.baseball-reference.com/route.cgi?player=1&mlb_ID=621043) delivering huge offensive performance at age 20 in AA (I misspelled the name), Atherton (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=athert001tim) and Hader (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=hader-000jos) are posing good numbers so far, and Hader's 21 at AA. Phillips (http://www.baseball-reference.com/route.cgi?player=1&mlb_ID=621433) is putting up some huge numbers as well, and he's 21 at A+.

 

I am trying to be as nice as possible...but is this actually serious...?

 

Carson Blair is not a very good catching prospect. He is some scrub the A's picked up in November for organizational filler. The other two A's minor leaguers don't even show up on their Top 30 list either...nor does Codiera for the Astros. The other two at least show up on the Astros top prospects list at #7 and #9.

 

So for Gennett, LUCROY, and Gatewood all we can manage is two so-so prospects and filler?

 

I mean maybe I missed something and apologizes if I did, but this is what I understand from some quick research.

 

EDIT: ALRIGHT I see the misspelling of Correa. That makes that deal make negative sense for the Astros. They get limited value in the deal and give up 3 of their Top 10 prospects with one of them being one of the best prospects in the game. Yikes

 

Gatewood's not topped a .530 OPS yet - he should have repeated at Helena, but he looks to be floundering in Wisconsin. I'm inclined to throw him in - selling high while he is still a prospect rather than see him fade out like Josh Murray did.

 

The Brewers need prospects - Oakland alone won't provide that, but they have the major-league holes. Houston has good prospects... but I don't see how they match up with the Brewers.

[Kelbysdaddy]

If Oakland matches up for a deal with the brewers for ANYONE, Matt Olson better be part of the return.

[brewcrewdue80]

There is 0% chance Carlos Correa is included in a trade. Of all trade rumors, Correa's may be the only one that tops untradeable over Julias Urias. Houston just promoted Correa to AAA. The talk was he could be promoted to the ML team when Lowrie went down. But Houston is going to play the Super 2 card on Correa and hold him down until he wont qualify for that. That is the only reason Correa is in AAA. Same could be said about Lindor in Cleveland. Both will be called up if healthy after the Super 2 date passes.

 

 

I'm still in belief Lucroy being traded is a huge challenge for Milw to find anything of correct value for him. The teams that would use him, don't have it and the teams that have value, don't need him. Seattle is pretty much it and it would have to start with Walker. They're not exactly a Playoff team that can lose a SP in trade to gain a Catcher. So you send them Lohse too? Just looking at Seattle's pitching depth chart. Elias is already up for Iwakuma. Only other significant SP to this point with an ERA under 4 would be Mike Montgomery who doesnt look to be end of the season ready. Probably a 165innings limit which he'd cleary exceed if he's a SP at the ML level.

 

Also in trade ideas, I just can't fathom Walker/Hultzen both being included in a single trade with 1 team. Would you trade Peralta/Nelson prior to the start of last season to acquire Lucroy?

 

As to Walker. Fangraphs rates an Pitcher's pitches as runs above avg or below. Walker has enjoyed positive runs in all 4 of pitches just never at the same time. Fastball, Cutter, Curveball, Change. It's the kind of maturity and learning to pitch that makes one wonder if he went and put 3 of the 4 together one season what that season would be like.

[clancyphile]

I'm still in belief Lucroy being traded is a huge challenge for Milw to find anything of correct value for him. The teams that would use him, don't have it and the teams that have value, don't need him. Seattle is pretty much it and it would have to start with Walker. They're not exactly a Playoff team that can lose a SP in trade to gain a Catcher. So you send them Lohse too? Just looking at Seattle's pitching depth chart. Elias is already up for Iwakuma. Only other significant SP to this point with an ERA under 4 would be Mike Montgomery who doesnt look to be end of the season ready. Probably a 165innings limit which he'd cleary exceed if he's a SP at the ML level.

 

That's why I think the only way to get good return is a three-team trade. Get a second team involved to get fair return for Lucroy.

[MrTPlush]

Gatewood, Medeiros, and Harrison are all at Wisconsin because the Helena Brewers have yet to start their season. Their season starts on the 18th and I would expect all of them to be demoted...maybe Medeiros has a long shot...but the other two will be demoted.

 

The Brewers opted to try them with the T-Rats vs. extended spring training. Why they did only they know.

 

EDIT: Helena Brewers don't start till JUNE 18th.

[yfinn6]

Gatewood, Medeiros, and Harrison are all at Wisconsin because the Helena Brewers have yet to start their season. Their season starts on the 18th and I would expect all of them to be demoted...maybe Medeiros has a long shot...but the other two will be demoted.

 

The Brewers opted to try them with the T-Rats vs. extended spring training. Why they did only they know.

 

EDIT: Helena Brewers don't start till JUNE 18th.

 

I thought I read somewhere that a main reason they started them in WI was to give them some meaningful at-bats right away and see how they handle it. All three of these kids should understand that a demotion is more of a SOP rather than a "you're not able to compete at this level" type thing.

[TooLiveBrew]

Yep, the org did the exact same thing with Coulter, who was just as overmatched at WI in his first go-round.

[mlloyd10]

RedSox go all in

 

Brewers trade: LuCroy/Gomez/Lohse or Garza

Brewers get: Swihart/Betts/Owens/Coyle/Johnson

 

In terms of Value, how far off is this?

[pacopete4]

RedSox go all in

 

Brewers trade: LuCroy/Gomez/Lohse or Garza

Brewers get: Swihart/Betts/Owens/Coyle/Johnson

 

In terms of Value, how far off is this?

 

Probably not too far off.

[MrTPlush]

RedSox go all in

 

Brewers trade: LuCroy/Gomez/Lohse or Garza

Brewers get: Swihart/Betts/Owens/Coyle/Johnson

 

In terms of Value, how far off is this?

 

In terms of value I'd say it is in the ballpark.

 

Realistically it makes little sense for the Red Sox. They aren't desperate.

[SRB]

RedSox go all in

 

Brewers trade: LuCroy/Gomez/Lohse or Garza

Brewers get: Swihart/Betts/Owens/Coyle/Johnson

 

In terms of Value, how far off is this?

 

That's not nearly enough coming to Milwaukee, in my opinion. Lucroy and Gomez and a pitcher in a single trade you are talking like Addison Russell + Jorge Soler + Javier Baez + others territory. (The kind of mega-deal that would never happen).

[brewcrewdue80]

How does Boston need Gomez? Theres JBJ and Rusney Castillo besides Betts. Seems really foolish on their part. I don't get them trading Swihart for Lucroy either. Sideways move and losing team control while doing so. Castillo is making 11mil+. Gomez clogs him further down in being called up.

 

How about the team the Brewers are facing tonight? White Sox? Tyler Flowers/Geo Soto have done the kind of catcher's work that would be team's need to upgrade. Soto gets canned, Lucroy steps in to save that club's Playoff hopes! Now, Carlos Rodon is a fixture for that team's run not going to be had in trade. Tim Anderson #17th pick in 2013 is a top 80 prospect but at the SS position. There's a flamethrower in Francelis Montas also a top 100 prospect but control issues making him seem a little suspect. But, hidden away in the White Sox minors is International prospect Micker Adolfo. 18year old who was ranked either #1 or #2 for international signees in 2013. Reads has having a Strong Power upside suitable for Right Field. Hit 5HRs in 47games in rookie ball at 17. Would that be the kind of get with Montas for Lucroy? Maybe you ask for Conor Gillapsie as a Lefty 3b bat as well? Someone to bridge ARam's retirement for a period. White Sox have Samardzija for the season, they can either buy to accommodate his last year and Lucroy would be a nice help, or take all that money they spent this offseason and sell him off to show for it.

[MrTPlush]

How does Boston need Gomez? Theres JBJ and Rusney Castillo besides Betts. Seems really foolish on their part. I don't get them trading Swihart for Lucroy either. Sideways move and losing team control while doing so. Castillo is making 11mil+. Gomez clogs him further down in being called up.

 

How about the team the Brewers are facing tonight? White Sox? Tyler Flowers/Geo Soto have done the kind of catcher's work that would be team's need to upgrade. Soto gets canned, Lucroy steps in to save that club's Playoff hopes! Now, Carlos Rodon is a fixture for that team's run not going to be had in trade. Tim Anderson #17th pick in 2013 is a top 80 prospect but at the SS position. There's a flamethrower in Francelis Montas also a top 100 prospect but control issues making him seem a little suspect. But, hidden away in the White Sox minors is International prospect Micker Adolfo. 18year old who was ranked either #1 or #2 for international signees in 2013. Reads has having a Strong Power upside suitable for Right Field. Hit 5HRs in 47games in rookie ball at 17. Would that be the kind of get with Montas for Lucroy? Maybe you ask for Conor Gillapsie as a Lefty 3b bat as well? Someone to bridge ARam's retirement for a period. White Sox have Samardzija for the season, they can either buy to accommodate his last year and Lucroy would be a nice help, or take all that money they spent this offseason and sell him off to show for it.

 

To be fair he did say in terms of value...I was assuming he maybe understood that it wasn't very realistic?

 

White Sox won't be getting Lucroy unless Rodon is coming back. I don't think there is any way they trade away Lucroy without getting an elite prospect back.

[brewcrewdue80]

How does Boston need Gomez? Theres JBJ and Rusney Castillo besides Betts. Seems really foolish on their part. I don't get them trading Swihart for Lucroy either. Sideways move and losing team control while doing so. Castillo is making 11mil+. Gomez clogs him further down in being called up.

 

How about the team the Brewers are facing tonight? White Sox? Tyler Flowers/Geo Soto have done the kind of catcher's work that would be team's need to upgrade. Soto gets canned, Lucroy steps in to save that club's Playoff hopes! Now, Carlos Rodon is a fixture for that team's run not going to be had in trade. Tim Anderson #17th pick in 2013 is a top 80 prospect but at the SS position. There's a flamethrower in Francelis Montas also a top 100 prospect but control issues making him seem a little suspect. But, hidden away in the White Sox minors is International prospect Micker Adolfo. 18year old who was ranked either #1 or #2 for international signees in 2013. Reads has having a Strong Power upside suitable for Right Field. Hit 5HRs in 47games in rookie ball at 17. Would that be the kind of get with Montas for Lucroy? Maybe you ask for Conor Gillapsie as a Lefty 3b bat as well? Someone to bridge ARam's retirement for a period. White Sox have Samardzija for the season, they can either buy to accommodate his last year and Lucroy would be a nice help, or take all that money they spent this offseason and sell him off to show for it.

 

To be fair he did say in terms of value...I was assuming he maybe understood that it wasn't very realistic?

 

White Sox won't be getting Lucroy unless Rodon is coming back. I don't think there is any way they trade away Lucroy without getting an elite prospect back.

 

Come on Rodon? Not even Gomez at this point would net Rodon in trade. He's a #3 draft pick that was tied as being #1 prior to two HS arms in Aiken and Kolek instead being chosen. You're talking Franchise SP for an arm. He's already being started by the White Sox. He's part of their solution today not in the future. He's not a prospect. There's gotta be some realization that certain types are Major League AS types who won't be had in a trade. What possibly could be the other team trying to trade for Lucroy offering that the White Sox would have to suggest Rodon is available? White Sox offering Micker Adolfo would be something already other teams are going to struggle to beat. Lucroy is great. But he's not other-worldly great. He's not Trout, not Stanton or McCutchen. He's an achieving 2nd round pick. 18HRs is the most he's hit in a season. His Career OB is .340. Something where .330 is what is asked for or you're not getting on base enough. If it were .365+ he'd be pretty elite in that category.

 

Just gotta look at it in what a team will trade away. They aren't going to trade away Players who are part of the reason for them to make a Playoff push in 2015. Like Rodon, Like Correa, Syndergaard etc. Trades for a player are most likely going to happen giving away prospects that are blocked or year/s away from contributing. What trades in history would have included a Carlos Rodon for a team sending an AS level player in a midseason trade?

 

Do we consider Gilbert Lara an elite prospect even though he's nowhere near a top 100 ranking? Micker Adolfo was just as high/er a rated international signing as Lara. I could easily see with him only being 18 and not even playing full season Minors ball being traded away for Lucroy's years and money owed with maybe an extension in the future. Isn't that the type of upside Milw should be seeking in trade?

[MrTPlush]

I don't think the White Sox would move Rodon, but there is no way the Brewers trade Lucroy for the center piece being a borderline Top 100 prospect who is a SS.

 

And Gilbert Lara is no where near an elite prospect. The guy is vastly overrated. We would really being trusting our scouting team trading for the guys you mentioned.

[mlloyd10]

JBJ is nothing. Betts would be coming here in the trade. Castillo would replace Nava

[clancyphile]

Gatewood, Medeiros, and Harrison are all at Wisconsin because the Helena Brewers have yet to start their season. Their season starts on the 18th and I would expect all of them to be demoted...maybe Medeiros has a long shot...but the other two will be demoted.

 

The Brewers opted to try them with the T-Rats vs. extended spring training. Why they did only they know.

 

EDIT: Helena Brewers don't start till JUNE 18th.

 

Gatewood and Medeiros didn't seem to do that hot last year, either, at least based on the numbers. I want to be proven wrong, but so far, I'm not sure that leaving them off my ballot for the top 25 was a mistake.

[Eye Black]

I'd try and sneak Danny Hultzen out of Seattle as well. I honestly don't know if he can pitch anymore, but he had the kind of upside that we need. Whether he can come back is another matter. But he's worth taking a flyer on.

I have seen Hultzen mentioned by a few folks, but as you alluded to he is coming off major shoulder surgery, until this month hadn't pitched since 2013, and will be out of options next season. The odds seem stacked against him ever reaching that upside.

[Eye Black]

As far as a Lucroy trade, how about a deal with the Angels. Obviously Newcomb would have to be a PTBNL unless the trade took place after this year's draft.

 

Angels get:

Jonathan Lucroy, C

Bullpen Arm

 

Brewers get:

Andrew Heaney, LHP

Sean Newcomb, LHP

Kyle Kubitza, 3B

Carlos Perez, C

[brewcrewdue80]

As far as a Lucroy trade, how about a deal with the Angels. Obviously Newcomb would have to be a PTBNL unless the trade took place after this year's draft.

 

Angels get:

Jonathan Lucroy, C

Bullpen Arm

 

Brewers get:

Andrew Heaney, LHP

Sean Newcomb, LHP

Kyle Kubitza, 3B

Carlos Perez, C

 

I'm always trying to play the other's team GM when making proposals. I like the proposal on a value for the Brewers. I'm just wondering, haven't the Angels basically been tied to attempting to acquire young arms since the Grienke trade? I feel like Heaney and drafting Newcomb is proof to be working towards that. Maybe the deal is done if that bullpen arm is Corey Knebel. I'd get the Angels swapping out Newcomb's future SP potential for Knebel to be used this season to help immediately. As would Lucroy. Heaney likely doesn't suit competing on an Angels playoff roster this season. Perez looks statistically like a decent get for a catcher replacing Lucroy. As to Kubitza, it looks to me like the Angels are worse off for 2016 at 3b than Milw is. I'd have to think Kubitza is already the 3b for the Angels penciled in for 2016 barring injury. You remove Kubitza you really don't get the kind of prospects back from the Angels then. And they really only have pitching for the most part then for prospects Really not a lot of depth showing up for their system at all. Pretty much this deal would about wipe them out! LOL.

 

I'd see Melvin doing the deal as well as the Angels if you took Heaney,Newcomb,Perez and CJ Cron for Lucroy/Knebel.

I know I'd rather let Clark/Rogers play 1b once Lind is sent away. But is Melvin going to go that route, because you know Rogers won't have the history of 1b playing time for him to maybe have gained confidence, same for Clark. Cron may just be the type who Melvin sees as a buy-low upside 1b to attain long term.